Best natural test booster?

[Guerilla]

non PH... lets hear em!

[MACHINE5150]

Zinc and Magnesium works well for me right before bed time.

[bigslick7878]

All garbage and a waste of money.

[n00bs]

Zinc
Nettle root extract

[2jz_calgary]

I've used tribulus...dosnt work for me....just started zma seems to be working.I've read that tongkat ali when genuine works wonders.plan to use it for my next pct....it's pricy though.

[X83]

ZMA or Z-force works well.

[bigslick7878]

ZMA has been shown to be only valuable in massive doses, like an entire bottle at one time. Problem with that is the toxicity level in that amount.

[X83]

ZMA has been shown to be only valuable in massive doses, like an entire bottle at one time. Problem with that is the toxicity level in that amount.

Not a good idea; too much magnesium will cause low blood pressure and an irregular heartbeat.

[bigslick7878]

Not a good idea; too much magnesium will cause low blood pressure and an irregular heartbeat.

Exactly.

[Van Suka]

Zinc
Stinging Nettle
Ashwagandha
Lots of sleep

ZMA can get expensive. Better to take Calcium+Magnesium and Zinc (make sure zinc is not taken together with Calcium however).

[X83]

(make sure zinc is not taken together with Calcium however).

Just curious as to why?

[dec11]

ZMA has been shown to be only valuable in massive doses, like an entire bottle at one time. Problem with that is the toxicity level in that amount.

thts rubbish, i used it for years at the recommended dosage and it helps nicely

[dec11]

Zinc
Stinging Nettle
Ashwagandha
Lots of sleep

ZMA can get expensive. Better to take Calcium+Magnesium and Zinc (make sure zinc is not taken together with Calcium however).

its one of the cheapest supps in the UK

[X83]

its one of the cheapest supps in the UK

I agree ZMA is only around eight bucks for 90-pills and the Z-Force is around seventeen bucks for 120 pills.

ZMA contains 450mg of magnesium plus 30mg of zinc with 12mg of vitamin B6

The Z-Force contains the following plus a few more supplements.

Magnesium: 450 mg
Zinc: 30 mg
Vitamin B6: 11 mg
Potassium: 10 mg
Vitamin C: 250 mg
Vitamin E: 100 IU

Proprietary Anabolic Herbal Blend: 785mg
-Tribulus Terrestris Extract (standardized for steroidal saponins), Mucuna Puriens (seeds standardized for l-dopa), Polypodium, Vulagare (suma root standardized for 20-hydroxyecdysone)

LPC (lysophosphatidylcholine) 100mg
NAC (n-acetyl-cysteine)200mg

[dec11]

I agree ZMA is only around eight bucks for 90-pills and the Z-Force is around seventeen bucks for 120 pills.

ZMA contains 450mg of magnesium plus 30mg of zinc with 12mg of vitamin B6

The Z-Force contains the following plus a few more supplements.

Magnesium: 450 mg
Zinc: 30 mg
Vitamin B6: 11 mg
Potassium: 10 mg
Vitamin C: 250 mg
Vitamin E: 100 IU

Proprietary Anabolic Herbal Blend: 785mg
-Tribulus Terrestris Extract (standardized for steroidal saponins), Mucuna Puriens (seeds standardized for l-dopa), Polypodium, Vulagare (suma root standardized for 20-hydroxyecdysone)

LPC (lysophosphatidylcholine) 100mg
NAC (n-acetyl-cysteine)200mg

id just go for plain zma, trib is absolute bollocks and one of the biggest supp market cons

[Van Suka]

Just curious as to why?

They will compete with each other for absorption. Calcium will always win the fight. Also, many tablets use calcium as a binding agent, so careful when taking zinc with other tabs. I like to take my zinc in the morning with Vitamin C, Ashwagandha, Stinging Nettle, Vitamin E and fish oils. I use to take Zinc before bedtime as well but no longer as I now take Calcium + Magnesium to help with deep sleep, which is what is going to help bring test levels up.

[X83]

They will compete with each other for absorption. Calcium will always win the fight. Also, many tablets use calcium as a binding agent, so careful when taking zinc with other tabs. I like to take my zinc in the morning with Vitamin C, Ashwagandha, Stinging Nettle, Vitamin E and fish oils. I use to take Zinc before bedtime as well but no longer as I now take Calcium + Magnesium to help with deep sleep, which is what is going to help bring test levels up.

Great info... now I need to reschedule my supplement plan.

[tjax03]

thts rubbish, i used it for years at the recommended dosage and it helps nicely

Sounds like a placebo effect. More than one study has confirmed that ZMA is only beneficial to those who are deficient in zinc or magnesium. Then again, you may have some physiological disposition to becoming depleted of those minerals.

[bigslick7878]

Sounds like a placebo effect. More than one study has confirmed that ZMA is only beneficial to those who are deficient in zinc or magnesium. Then again, you may have some physiological disposition to becoming depleted of those minerals.

Thank you. There have been NUMEROUS studies that say this, maybe he should try reading them.

ZMA was just another supplement that came about during the boom, caught on like wildfire but just like almost every other one has been debunked many times over in recent years.

But let him keep thinking it is doing something for him, it's his money he is wasting. The mind is a very powerful thing.

[F4iGuy]

Save your $

[JustDoIt12]

do legs

[dec11]

Sounds like a placebo effect. More than one study has confirmed that ZMA is only beneficial to those who are deficient in zinc or magnesium. Then again, you may have some physiological disposition to becoming depleted of those minerals.

no its not placebo, ive consumed enough supps over 17yrs to know what works or not. it works and theres enuf test evidence to prove it also

[dec11]

Thank you. There have been NUMEROUS studies that say this, maybe he should try reading them.

ZMA was just another supplement that came about during the boom, caught on like wildfire but just like almost every other one has been debunked many times over in recent years.

But let him keep thinking it is doing something for him, it's his money he is wasting. The mind is a very powerful thing.

condesending parrot. seriousiy steroid.com is full of toolboxes these days

[jimmyinkedup]

condesending parrot dickhead. seriousiy steroid.com is full of toolboxes these days

Yeah you would prob be more comfortable at one of those sites crawling with company reps and their lackies. That way when you claim a uselesss supp like ZMA works for you - you could have 15 reps or made up users that are reps agree with you. THEN you could waste your money on this crap with a clear conscience.

ZMA & Herbal test boosters are both uselss.

[dec11]

Yeah you would prob be more comfortable at one of those sites crawling with company reps and their lackies. That way when you claim a uselesss supp like ZMA works for you - you could have 15 reps or made up users that are reps agree with you. THEN you could waste your money on this crap with a clear conscience.

ZMA & Herbal test boosters are both uselss.

wtf are you on about?! i never once claimed 'test boosters' worked!! and i never claimed tht zma raises testosterone either, all i know is i used it alot before i used aas and i was significantly stronger on it and slept alot better (which, as the educated amoungst us know, boosts performance) I seriously dont know what yous are on about, are you trying to compare zma to aas or summit? there are channels for it to produce effect other than the testosterone route you know.
oh and heres a study esp for you twats

http://www.exrx.net/Nutrition/Supplements/ZMA.html

now OP, you can decide between the study and the 'we know everything' camp on here. i would never recommend anything that hasnt worked for me, period

[jimmyinkedup]

wtf are you on about?! Nothing you claim this site full of toolboxes - i simply stated you may be more comfortable on a site where people wil reenforce your opinions..not tell the truth
i never once claimed 'test boosters' worked!! and i never claimed tht zma raises testosterone either, all i know is i used it alot before i used aas and i was significantly stronger on it and slept alot better (which, as the educated amoungst us know, boosts performance)
I seriously dont know what yous are on about, are you trying to compare zma to aas or summit?I didnt compare ZMA to anything

there are channels for it to produce effect other than the testosterone route you know. Yeah except the study in your ARTICLE attributed any benefits to test and igf levels...SOOO....
oh and heres a study esp for you twats

http://www.exrx.net/Nutrition/Supplements/ZMA.html

now OP, you can decide between the study and the 'we know everything' camp on here. i would never recommend anything that hasnt worked for me, period

Now on to your "study" :
First - its not a study its an article.
Second - the references for the article are a site that sells supplements , the "discoverer" or the supp that stands to directly financially benfit from its sale , and a "study"
third - on to this study - it was done on 8 players..it was funded by Conte (yeah BALCO) - again the one that directly financially benfits from successful sales of the supp. Many people believe that the zma provided for the study was "tainted" - not a stretch considering Contes record of conduct is it?

Now here is a real , unbiased ZMA study , Read away :

ZMA is totally ineffective, say German sports scientists in an article published in the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition. The researchers tested a couple of bottles of SNAC System’s ZMA from the bodybuilding.com webshop. SNAC is Victor Conte’s company, the genius behind the BALCO scheme and the inventor of ZMA.

The team of researchers led by Wilhelm Schaenzer gave seven fitness fanatics the recommended dose of ZMA – three capsules per day, providing a total of thirty milligrams of zinc, 450 milligrams of magnesium and 11 milligrams of vitamin B6. The researchers made sure the athletes followed the advice of the manufacturer. The participants were asked to swallow the capsules with water between dinner and bedtime at minimum 1 h after the last food intake. Seven other athletes were given a placebo.

The Germans then monitored the concentration of androgens in the blood their subjects for 56 days. The results are shown below. The white bars represent the testosterone level of the test subjects in the placebo group. The grey bars represent the testosterone level of the test subjects in the ZMA group.



Effect: nada.

When the researchers measured the concentrations of a series of natural androgens in the test subjects' urine the story was pretty much the same. The concentrations are listed in the table, but not in straightforward milligrams, as the figures have undergone statistical processing. But the message is clear. ZMA does not raise the androgen level. If anything, it appears to lower it a little.



The researchers measured the zinc intake of the athletes before starting the experiment. Their levels were between 12 and 23 milligrams per day, more than the daily requirement. Recent trials have shown that athletes make more testosterone if they take zinc supplements. [Neuro Endocrinol Lett. 2006 Feb-Apr;27(1-2):247-52.] But these athletes probably had a zinc deficiency, the Germans reason.



ZMA has been tested a couple of times. In the first case ZMA came out tops, and the abstract of the study was distributed to much acclaim. That research was done by supplements manufacturer himself. The manufacturer first claimed that the study had been published in the prestigious Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, [www.bodyandfitness.com] but this was not the case. The research was published on the JEPonline website. [JEPonline, 3(4): 26-36, 2000.]

A few years later, Richard Kreider studied the effectiveness of ZMASS, a supplement containing ZMA and L-Dopa produced by Cytodyne. ZMASS did nothing. Almost nothing. [J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2004 Dec 31;1(2):12-20.]

Meanwhile Victor Conte is doing very well thank you from the sales of ZMA, according to media reports. From the enquiry into the Balco affair we know that Conte gave athletes his invisible designer steroids on condition that they openly sung ZMA’s praises. This is how Marion Jones won her medals in the 2000 Olympics.

The Germans do have some good news about ZMA as well though. The supplement scarcely raises zinc levels in the body. The athletes excreted nearly all the extra zinc in their urine. ZMA users also urinated more – which explains why some ZMA users think that the stuff makes them ‘drier’. They dehydrate.

The rapid disappearance of extra zinc from the body is good news for all those bodybuilders who were duped into using ZMA. Researchers suspect that high levels of zinc intake can increase the risk of prostate cancer [J Natl Cancer Inst. 2003 Jul 2;95(13):1004-7.] in the long run.

Actually click here. It shows the clinical data i couldnt cut and paste: http://community.myprotein.com/advan...e-support.html

[dec11]

Now on to your "study" :
First - its not a study its an article.
Second - the references for the article are a site that sells supplements , the "discoverer" or the supp that stands to directly financially benfit from its sale , and a "study"
third - on to this study - it was done on 8 players..it was funded by Conte (yeah BALCO) - again the one that directly financially benfits from successful sales of the supp. Many people believe that the zma provided for the study was "tainted" - not a stretch considering Contes record of conduct is it?

Now here is a real , unbiased ZMA study , Read away :

ZMA is totally ineffective, say German sports scientists in an article published in the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition. The researchers tested a couple of bottles of SNAC System’s ZMA from the bodybuilding.com webshop. SNAC is Victor Conte’s company, the genius behind the BALCO scheme and the inventor of ZMA.

The team of researchers led by Wilhelm Schaenzer gave seven fitness fanatics the recommended dose of ZMA – three capsules per day, providing a total of thirty milligrams of zinc, 450 milligrams of magnesium and 11 milligrams of vitamin B6. The researchers made sure the athletes followed the advice of the manufacturer. The participants were asked to swallow the capsules with water between dinner and bedtime at minimum 1 h after the last food intake. Seven other athletes were given a placebo.

The Germans then monitored the concentration of androgens in the blood their subjects for 56 days. The results are shown below. The white bars represent the testosterone level of the test subjects in the placebo group. The grey bars represent the testosterone level of the test subjects in the ZMA group.



Effect: nada.

When the researchers measured the concentrations of a series of natural androgens in the test subjects' urine the story was pretty much the same. The concentrations are listed in the table, but not in straightforward milligrams, as the figures have undergone statistical processing. But the message is clear. ZMA does not raise the androgen level. If anything, it appears to lower it a little.



The researchers measured the zinc intake of the athletes before starting the experiment. Their levels were between 12 and 23 milligrams per day, more than the daily requirement. Recent trials have shown that athletes make more testosterone if they take zinc supplements. [Neuro Endocrinol Lett. 2006 Feb-Apr;27(1-2):247-52.] But these athletes probably had a zinc deficiency, the Germans reason.



ZMA has been tested a couple of times. In the first case ZMA came out tops, and the abstract of the study was distributed to much acclaim. That research was done by supplements manufacturer himself. The manufacturer first claimed that the study had been published in the prestigious Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, [www.bodyandfitness.com] but this was not the case. The research was published on the JEPonline website. [JEPonline, 3(4): 26-36, 2000.]

A few years later, Richard Kreider studied the effectiveness of ZMASS, a supplement containing ZMA and L-Dopa produced by Cytodyne. ZMASS did nothing. Almost nothing. [J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2004 Dec 31;1(2):12-20.]

Meanwhile Victor Conte is doing very well thank you from the sales of ZMA, according to media reports. From the enquiry into the Balco affair we know that Conte gave athletes his invisible designer steroids on condition that they openly sung ZMA’s praises. This is how Marion Jones won her medals in the 2000 Olympics.

The Germans do have some good news about ZMA as well though. The supplement scarcely raises zinc levels in the body. The athletes excreted nearly all the extra zinc in their urine. ZMA users also urinated more – which explains why some ZMA users think that the stuff makes them ‘drier’. They dehydrate.

The rapid disappearance of extra zinc from the body is good news for all those bodybuilders who were duped into using ZMA. Researchers suspect that high levels of zinc intake can increase the risk of prostate cancer [J Natl Cancer Inst. 2003 Jul 2;95(13):1004-7.] in the long run.

Actually click here. It shows the clinical data i couldnt cut and paste: http://community.myprotein.com/advan...e-support.html

oh so you didnt check the bottom of the page which REFERENCES THE ACSM

give up idiot

[jimmyinkedup]

^^^ *LMAO* If you read my post you would have read this:

ZMA has been tested a couple of times. In the first case ZMA came out tops, and the abstract of the study was distributed to much acclaim. That research was done by supplements manufacturer himself. The manufacturer first claimed that the study had been published in the prestigious Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, [www.bodyandfitness.com] but this was not the case. The research was published on the JEPonline website. [JEPonline, 3(4): 26-36, 2000.]

Im sorry ZMA is useless.....

[dec11]

jimmy, i couldnt give a flyin fvck wat you try to bend out of it or wat you think, it worked for me and plenty of my mates

[jimmyinkedup]

^^^ Look i didnt try to bend anything. I posted real valid clinical data to support my opinion...unlike you did or can.
If u think it works for you ....fine.....keep taking it.... but dont come here and call people toolboxes then post BS information and call it credible studies to back up your opinion.
If its your opinion it works - fine. Its mine that it doesnt. It just so happens science backs my opinion not yours. People can decide for themselves.
Its not personal...not sure why you felt the need to make it personal...but hey whatever.

[dec11]

^^^ Look i didnt try to bend anything. I posted real valid clinical data to support my opinion...unlike you did or can.
If u think it works for you ....fine.....keep taking it.... but dont come here and call people toolboxes then post BS information and call it credible studies to back up your opinion.
If its your opinion it works - fine. Its mine that it doesnt. It just so happens science backs my opinion not yours. People can decide for themselves.
Its not personal...not sure why you felt the need to make it personal...but hey whatever.

nothing to do with personal, just fed up with ppl like you on here. ok then the ACSM is no longer credible in jimmy's point of view. according to him the ACSM isnt a scientific organisation, lmfao. get a brain, will ya?

[dec11]

^^^ Look i didnt try to bend anything. I posted real valid clinical data to support my opinion...unlike you did or can.
If u think it works for you ....fine.....keep taking it.... but dont come here and call people toolboxes then post BS information and call it credible studies to back up your opinion.
If its your opinion it works - fine. Its mine that it doesnt. It just so happens science backs my opinion not yours. People can decide for themselves.
Its not personal...not sure why you felt the need to make it personal...but hey whatever.

double post

[jimmyinkedup]

nothing to do with personal, just fed up with ppl like you on here. ok then the ACSM is no longer credible in jimmy's point of view. according to him the ACSM isnt a scientific organisation, lmfao. get a brain, will ya?

Ok now ill make it personal. You are definately not the sharpest knife in the drawer are you ?.
Read this again...slowly and carefully. You will see it clearly states the study you quoted that claimed to be published in the ACSM Journal was never published there. That was a LIE.

Now so a 2 year old could undersatnd this...this is the refernce from the article you posted:
Brilla, L. Effects of zinc-magnesium (ZMA) supplementation on muscle attributes of football players. ACSM journal, Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, Vol.31, No. 5, May 1999.

Now read my post einstein:


ZMA has been tested a couple of times. In the first case ZMA came out tops, and the abstract of the study was distributed to much acclaim. That research was done by supplements manufacturer himself. The manufacturer first claimed that the study had been published in the prestigious Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, [www.bodyandfitness.com] but this was not the case. The research was published on the JEPonline website. [JEPonline, 3(4): 26-36, 2000.]

Can you figure it out now?
Ignorant Fool ..keep wasting your money.....

[dec11]

Ok now ill make it personal. You are definately not the sharpest knife in the drawer are you ?.
Read this again...slowly and carefully. You will see it clearly states the study you quoted that claimed to be published in the ACSM Journal was never published there. That was a LIE.

Now so a 2 year old could undersatnd this...this is the refernce from the article you posted:
Brilla, L. Effects of zinc-magnesium (ZMA) supplementation on muscle attributes of football players. ACSM journal, Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, Vol.31, No. 5, May 1999.

Now read my post einstein:


ZMA has been tested a couple of times. In the first case ZMA came out tops, and the abstract of the study was distributed to much acclaim. That research was done by supplements manufacturer himself. The manufacturer first claimed that the study had been published in the prestigious Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, [www.bodyandfitness.com] but this was not the case. The research was published on the JEPonline website. [JEPonline, 3(4): 26-36, 2000.]

Can you figure it out now?
Ignorant Fool ..keep wasting your money.....

Scientific Evidences

There are several evidences which support ZMA capsules. According to recent studies, magnesium and zinc and deficient in most athletes and consuming ZMA capsules and zinc supplements can help increase their testosterone levels by as much as 30%. Lorrie Brilla, a researcher on sports performance at the Western Washington University also recently reported that the ZMA capsules increase the testosterone levels significantly and increase muscle strength. The results of these studies had been published in the official ACSM journal. The study which had been undertaken by Lorrie Brilla studied a group of NCAA football players. The players were given ZMA capsules during a training program for eight weeks. The players who took the supplement had 2.5 more muscle strength in comparison to those who had not. The post and pre leg strength measurements had been made and the group which took ZMA capsules had 11.6% more strength. The group which took ZMA capsules also reported 30% more total testosterone levels in comparison to the 10% decreases for the placebo group. This particular study shows that muscle strength and anabolic hormone increase can be aided by zinc supplements and ZMA capsules.



Read more: http://www.articlesbase.com/suppleme...#ixzz1CYaXPNRN
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution


read the bolds you stupid fvckin w@nker

[jimmyinkedup]

Scientific Evidences

There are several evidences which support ZMA capsules. According to recent studies, magnesium and zinc and deficient in most athletes and consuming ZMA capsules and zinc supplements can help increase their testosterone levels by as much as 30%. Lorrie Brilla, a researcher on sports performance at the Western Washington University also recently reported that the ZMA capsules increase the testosterone levels significantly and increase muscle strength. The results of these studies had been published in the official ACSM journal. The study which had been undertaken by Lorrie Brilla studied a group of NCAA football players. The players were given ZMA capsules during a training program for eight weeks. The players who took the supplement had 2.5 more muscle strength in comparison to those who had not. The post and pre leg strength measurements had been made and the group which took ZMA capsules had 11.6% more strength. The group which took ZMA capsules also reported 30% more total testosterone levels in comparison to the 10% decreases for the placebo group. This particular study shows that muscle strength and anabolic hormone increase can be aided by zinc supplements and ZMA capsules.



Read more: http://www.articlesbase.com/suppleme...#ixzz1CYaXPNRN
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution


read the bolds you stupid fvckin w@nker

Wow you really are that stupid that you just dont realize that that information , as pointed out , isnt true. It was a lie spread by the manufacturer to try to lend credibility to a BS product you fool. Later shown to be a lie...as i CLEARLY pointed out.
Newssflash - just because you find a lie in 2 seperate places it doesnt mean its true.
It was never published in the journal you idiot.

[dec11]

Wow you really are that stupid that you just dont realize that that information , as pointed out , isnt true. It was a lie spread by the manufacturer to try to lend credibility to a BS product you fool. Later shown to be a lie...as i CLEARLY pointed out.
Newssflash - just because you find a lie in 2 seperate places it doesnt mean its true.
It was never published in the journal you idiot.

so every manufacturer of zma is in on it then? fvck off asshole

[n00bs]

^^^ Look i didnt try to bend anything. I posted real valid clinical data to support my opinion...unlike you did or can.
If u think it works for you ....fine.....keep taking it.... but dont come here and call people toolboxes then post BS information and call it credible studies to back up your opinion.
If its your opinion it works - fine. Its mine that it doesnt. It just so happens science backs my opinion not yours. People can decide for themselves.
Its not personal...not sure why you felt the need to make it personal...but hey whatever.

Zinc is a mild aromatase inhibitor, many physicians use zinc to combat e2 levels.. Study or not this is what is done in real life we have the patients/clinical experience/ and pathology to back it up.

Real life result > random dud paper

Also notice the paper does not state specifically what minerals and carriers are used. They could of used magnesium oxide ad inferior forms of zinc.. Also the dosage of zinc is too low for the desired effects.

So using the wrong dosage and possibly wrong mineral carrier = bad results? Well obviously...

Next time you get a headache take quarter paracetamol tab and wonder why it doesn't work.

[dec11]

Zinc is a mild aromatase inhibitorany physicians use zinc to combat e2 levels.. Study or not this is what is done in real life we have the patients/clinical experience/ and pathology to back it up.

Real life result > random dud paper

amen. thank you

[Ashop]

ZMA is a great natural product. Ive used a TRIBULUS blend product too that worked but
was never released to the market. I seen through blood lab work that it did indeed raise
levels.

[jimmyinkedup]

so every manufacturer of zma is in on it then? fvck off asshole

This was when the supp was first discovered. It was , at the time , the only source for this supplement....thus the only manufacturer. God you are ignorant.