Looking for an alternative route

[9za4ck4]

So im looking for a good way to gain weight besides roids. although i have already done 3 cycles by the age 19 (currently 20 now) i am wanting a new way to go about things so im looking for a hard clean diet.

ok so heres the info i can give you despite what ive done its been 8 months since ive done anything. in my last cycle i had to accidents leaving me injured and unable to really work out whether or not it was the roids fault its debatable. but my injuries were a torn ligament in my knee and my shoulder was hurt pretty bad. now getting back into working out i am kinda having problems with both but its not anything terrible i just notice some discomfort.

now i have high goals but i would be happy with being where i was when i was on roids i just want to get there naturally so if that can be possible that would be amazing.

so heres where im at
age 20
height 5'10
weight 170
bf% plays around 13

heres where i was
age 18/19
height 5'10
weight 187
bf% 6

now i know theres alot of info im leaving out just ask me a ? and il answer it oh and i already know roids at the age i started was young, i know this i really do. i know what i was risking, i dont plan on going back to roids which is why im looking for info to go naturally.

[Damienm05]

Of course there's another way to gain bud. Even if you never did a single cycle but ate a high calorie diet full of lean protein, complex carbs, and healthy fats for 2-3 years you could add 30-40 lbs. of mass at your age - easy. Just read the info below and post a proposed diet based on your schedule and what's available to you food-wise. We'll get you sorted out. I also posted my last "lean bulk" diet below the info to give you some idea as to a good structure.





Part 1 - The basics

If you burn more calories than you take in, you will lose weight. If you eat more, you will add weight (either in the form of fat, muscle, or both depending on food choices). Period. There are 3500 stored calories in one pound of body fat. 3500 negative calories equals one pound of fat loss. So let’s break it down a little further, based on our individual statistics and goals.

Stats – BMR and TDEE are the two figures that can tell us a lot about how we should be eating based on our goals.

Let’s start with BMR. This is your Basal Metabolic Rate. AKA – how many calories you burn each day by just sitting on your ass. In order to figure out your BMR, you need to know what your lean body mass is. In turn, you need to know what your body fat percentage is.

If you don’t know your body fat percentage, remind me to test it for you before we proceed. If you’d rather not do a caliper test, just tell me and I’ll give you a pretty good visual estimate.

With your bf % in hand, here’s the formula:

BMR (men and women) = 370 + (21.6 X lean mass in kg)

Total weight x bf % in decimal form = total bf weight

Total weight - total bf weight = total lean body mass

For example:

I am 6'1 210 lbs at 10% body fat... so I would multiply 210 by .10 (converted from percent to decimal) = 21 lbs

210 – 21 = 189 lbs lean body weight

189 / 2.2 = 86.0 lean mass in kg

370 + (21.6 x 86) = 2227.6 BMR (this is high for the average person)

Now that we have a BMR figure, we can move on to TDEE. Total Daily Energy Expenditure. This is how many calories we actually use during the day via our BMR and activities such as work, exercise and various tasks. We can figure this number out with simple math but be honest because this figure is to be the cornerstone of your diet and healthy lifestyle. We need to determine your activity level. We’ll choose from a few levels:

 If you are sedentary (little or no exercise): Calorie - Calculation = BMR x 1.2
 If you are lightly active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/week): Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.375
 If you are moderately active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/week): Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.55
 If you are very active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days a week): Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.725
 If you are extra active (very hard exercise/sports & physical job or 2x training): Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.9

For example:

I train with weights 5 days for 90 minutes per week. I play hockey three times per week
for 90 minutes. I do 60 minutes of cardio training 5 times per week as well. I also practice my sport 3 times per week for 90 minutes. Either via skating or puck/shooting drills. All are high-intensity. I am between very and extra active. Let’s say BMR x 1.8. My TDEE is 4010.

This is how many calories you can eat and still break even. To lose weight, we must eat below this number. To gain, we must eat above it. 1000 calories below your TDEE daily, will result in negative 7000 calories per week. Remember, 3500 calories is one pound of fat loss; so you’re losing two pounds per week. And that’s with just diet alone. Now, let’s factor in additional caloric deficit via cardio. Say, you also run for 45 minutes in the morning and burn 600 calories in the process. That puts you at negative 1600 calories per day. Now we’re talking four pounds per week. Imagine (and I don’t recommend this) if you ate 1500 below your TDEE and ran for 2 hours per day, burning 1600 calories in the process, putting you at negative 3200 calories daily. Now we’re talking about a pound per day. You could be at your goal weight in a matter of weeks. However, this would destroy your BMR and make you gain weight back quickly if you started eating normally again without a gradual increase in calories over several months.

Part 2 – Exercise.

I’ll keep this part short and sweet because we’ll do the real work in this area during our sessions in the gym. There are only two major types of exercise that will help you realize your goals.

1- Resistance training: AKA – lifting weights. In doing this, we shred our muscle tissue and force our body to rebuild it, bigger, stronger, and leaner than it was before. This is our body responding to the strain, becoming better prepared to handle it next time around. In rebuilding muscle tissue, our bodies require lots more nutrients and calories. For example, if you work out hard and feel sore the next day, your body is, at this point, a calorie burning machine. Some experts say we burn as much as 30% more calories in a sedentary state in the days following strong workouts. Basically add 30% to your BMR if you lift weights. Ya dig?
2- Cardiovascular training: There are many types and ways to employ this type of training. At a high body fat percentage; high intensity cardio is going to be most effective. This means keeping your heart rate highly elevated (about 80% of max) for more than 20 minutes at a time, usually via running. Our bodies burn calories at an incredible rate when doing this and unless we have tons of carbohydrates and stored glycogen in our body (we’ll get into carbs later) – will have no choice but to burn some fat for energy in this state as well. At a low body fat percentage when the goal is to preserve muscle and gradually shed that last bit of stubborn fat. I recommend low intensity cardio. This involves longer sessions at fewer heart beats per minute (65% of max). The calorie burn is not equivalent to interval or high intensity cardio but in this heart rate range; fat is targeted, while lean tissue and muscle glycogen are spared. Anyway, enough said, right? Do cardio, create a caloric deficit, burn body fat, lose water weight by sweating, which makes you feel thin. It’s probably the ultimate key to quick weight loss.

Part 3 – Diet - Macronutrients:

I love analogies. Let’s use a good one. Think of your perfect body as a house that you must build. You’ve figured out your BMR and TDEE, so you know the exact specs of the property you have to work with. I’ve told you how exercise affects weight loss and how much of a caloric deficit we must create to lose said weight; so you know how to build - you understand architecture. You also know the pace you intend on losing weight at based on these other factors, so you know it will be harder to get your house built in weeks as opposed to months. The only thing left is the tools/building material you must use and because you don’t know how to eat, you still can’t build anything. At least, not well. Sure, you can starve yourself for a while but you’ll just gain all the weight back in 2-nights of binge drinking – you’re house will fall down!

So, let’s talk tools baby. Let’s talk food. First off, there are only 3 types of foods/macronutrients. Protein. Carbohydrates. Fat. That’s it.

Protein – 4 calories per gram - Building material. Bricks. You can’t gain energy from protein, you can only use it to build muscle/skin/hair/nails. It’s basically just amino acids and it’s what our bodies are made of. As such, we need lots of it. 1g of protein per body lb is a good number to shoot for. Go as high as 2g per body lb if you’re lifting weights and trying to build muscle. For example, I am 210 lbs and I eat between 300-400 grams per day. The conventional wisdom is that your body can only break down so much at one time however, so we want to eat 20-40 grams of protein in every meal, several times per day, however I am reading more and more literature to the contrary lately. Regardless, it is best, for metabolic purposes, to portion out your day’s calories and protein that way. Protein, being building material only and not energy/labor – the body can rarely find a reason for it to be stored as fat. If you must over-eat – make it lean meat/fish.

Carbs – 4 calories per gram - Think of these as human labor for your house. Think of sugar as dudes you pick up out front of home depot and oatmeal as a skilled carpenter. Both are carbs, both serve very different purposes. Carbs do not build muscle; they are simply an energy source. As such, they should only be eaten/used when we need energy. Any carbs we ingest before bed or before watching a movie, or something sedentary are not used as energy, and as such, are stored in the body as glycogen (glucose/water in our muscles that we will use when doing high-intensity exercise). Once our glycogen reserves are full, they are stored as fat. Yes, they will make you fat. Carbs can be your best friend or your worst enemy. As such, I will teach you what carbs to eat and when.

Fats – 9 calories per gram - Like carbs, fats are an energy source, not a building material like protein. They provide nowhere near as much energy as carbs however and are not the body’s preferred source. With regard to our house, think of fats as the glue/cement. They provide much needed essential fatty acids, which are great for joint/organ health, metabolism, and increase our protein synthesis (body’s ability to make use of the protein we give it). Going back to our analogy, cement/glue increases the effectiveness of bricks! If we give our bodies the right fats, it will be able to burn stored body fat quickly as it won’t see any use in keeping it. Remember, like carbs – not all fat is good and ALL fat is high in calories so watch out. A tablespoon of peanut butter can be a good addition to a meal. Snacking on 5-6 tablespoons means you’ve just eaten over your TDEE for the day.

Part 4 – Diet – What to Eat:

Acceptable proteins for your healthy lifestyle diet:

The goal is to eat lean protein. Meats/other sources low in fat/carbs.

 Ground beef (93% lean or better)
 Lean steak (Flank, flat iron, or top sirloin)
 Bison sirloin (the highest quality red meat)
 Chicken breast
 Turkey breast
 Tuna (canned or sushi grade)
 Salmon
 Tilapia (mostly all white fish)
 All shellfish
 Venison
 Whey protein (post-workout recovery purposes only)
 Casein/Cottage cheese (before bed only)

Black-List Protein sources. Do not eat these because they are high in fat. And not the
good kind we find in nuts and olive oil – I’m talking about cholesterol raising saturated
fat!

 Bacon
 Sausage
 Expensive fat-marbled Steaks (Ribeye, Strip, Filet)
 Pork and beef ribs
 Pork/Lamb chops
 Restaurant ground beef (80/20 fat – most burgers)
 Duck
 Chicken legs/thighs
 Chicken skin
 Cheese

Acceptable Carbs for your healthy lifestlyle:

Complex carbs are now your creed. These are slower-digesting, natural, low on the glycemic index carbohydrates that digest slowly and provide us with sustained energy. They do not drastically affect our blood sugar and do not cause insulin spikes. Thus our body sees no reason to store them as fat, it would rather burn them for energy. Simple carbs such as enriched white breads/pastas/rice/potatoes/sugars (including most fruit) cause insulin spikes and are high GI foods. They should not be eaten when on a strict diet. Fruit can be consumed early in the day or pre/post-workout because of it’s high nutritional value but should usually be avoided due to being a form of simple sugar. Remember, healthy, low-calorie foods aren’t always the correct foods and such is the case with fruit.

 Oats/Oatmeal
 Grits/Cornmeal
 Unsalted/non-buttered popcorn (great, low-cal snack)
 Sweet potato (the best choice)
 Butternut squash
 Whole wheat pasta (not enriched)
 Organic whole wheat bread (not enriched wonder bread crap)
 Brown rice
 Ezekiel bread
 Swedish grain bread
 Gluten free bread
 Wheat couscous
 Corn
 Quinoa
 Lentils
 Beans
 Many more, look up the GI (glycemic index) for healthy choices

Black List:

 White pasta
 White bread
 Baguette
 Bagels
 Cookies, cake, muffins, cupcakes, all sweets basically.
 White couscous
 White rice
 You get the idea…

Don’t get discouraged upon reading this list. I still make desserts all the time with whole
grain flour and splenda. I buy bagels and baguettes at the health food store that use
complex carbs as a base. If you’re dedicated, you don’t have to miss out 100%

Acceptable fats for your healthy lifestyle:

We look for fat sources that are high in omega-3, 6, and 9 fatty acids. Also, many are high in protein. We do not want saturated fats such as butter, cream, meat fat. We don’t want test tube fats like trans (the worst). We want mono/polyunsaturated fats that our body can use for something other than calories. Remember, even good fats are high in calories.

 Natural peanut butter (no sugar added, just roasted peanuts)
 Natural almond butter
 Cashews
 Almonds
 Peanuts
 Flax seeds
 Flax seed oil
 Salmon and Trout (great fatty proteins)
 Fish oil
 Extra virgin olive oil (should be used on all veggies/salads)
 Chia seeds
 Grapeseed oil
 Macadamia nut oil

Acceptable miscellaneous foods:

These foods don’t provide much as far as macronutrients but are great for adding vitamins/minerals and taste. Notice some of these other foods are dairy. Dairy is another animal’s milk. We lack the enzymes to digest it as they do and it’s high in fat/sugar. It should only be eaten early in the day for nutrient purposes with the exception of whey and casein (cottage cheese).

 Skim milk (Hood brand is only 45 calories and 3g of sugar per cup)
 Greek yogurt (no sugar added)
 Berries (all berries are much lower in sugar than other fruits and packed with fiber/nutrients – eat berries)
 Green Vegetables. These are technically carbs but they are packed with fiber (a type of carb that isn’t used as energy or stored). In bodybuilding/nutrition – we refer to most vegetables as fibrous carbohydrates. While a serving of Broccoli may have 6g of carbs, 5 are from fiber. Meaning that it contains only 1g of storable carbohydrates. In addition, green vegetables are a calorie neutral/negative food (our body uses more calories to digest them than they contain – think celery). Veggies should be eaten with every meal. Every day. If you do this, you can become almost impervious to getting sick. Some vegetables are better than others for healthy diets.
 Many non-green vegetables. Most are fine – just check labels, some have a good bit of sugar and should be eaten in moderation only (carrots)





Notes:
- Unspecified mixed vegetables are roasted brocolli, cauliflower, zuchinni, yellow squash, mushrooms, and eggplant with minimal red onion and garlic. For this side-dish and other vegetable sides, I am not including macros for as I'm of the mindset that the carbohydrate count is mainly derived of fiber and any calories are negated in digestion.
- 12 Udo's 3/6/9 capsules are eaten throughout the day. 12g of fat, 8 of which are Omega-3.
- Sweet potatoes are roasted, then mashed and divided into containers as such. That's why portions are in cups not ounces or potato size.

Meal 1 - 6:30 AM

2 whole Omega-3 eggs 12/0/9/140
1 cup Liquid Egg Whites 24/0/0/120
1 cup steel cut oats 12/54/5/310

Total: 48/54/14/570

Meal 2 - 9:00 AM

8 oz. Chicken breast 46/0/3/200
1 cup french lentils 14/40/1/230
1 cup mixed vegetables

Total: 60/40/4/430

Meal 3 - 11:00 AM

8 oz. Bison Sirloin 48/0/5/240
1 cup sweet potato 5/58/0/260

Total: 53/58/5/500

Meal 4 - 2:30 PM (Pre-Workout)

8 oz. Flank Steak 48/0/15/340
1.5 cup sweet potato 7/88/1/390
10 large straws, Asparagus

Total: 55/88/16/740

Meal 5 - 5:30 PM (Post-Workout)

2 scoops whey 40/4/1/190
1 cup quick oats 10/53/5/300

Total: 50/57/6/490

Meal 6 - 6:30 PM

8 oz. Tilapia 42/0/2/186
1 cup Basmati rice 4/45/0/205
1 cup mixed vegetables

Total: 46/45/2/391

Meal 7 - 8:30 PM

6 oz. Sockeye Salmon 37/0/11/285
1 tablespoon EVOO 0/0/14/120
1 cup Brussels Sprouts

Total: 37/0/26/405

Meal 8 - 11:00 PM (Bed)

2 scoops ON Casein 48/4/3/230
2 Tbspn. Organic PB 7/6/17/190
1 Tspn. Flax oil 0/0/5/45

Total: 55/10/25/465


Daily Totals: 402/345/110/4131

[9za4ck4]

amazing amount of info i highly appreciate it, what all supplements would you recommend? ive done and tried quite a bit. i like no2 and ce2 what are your thoughts on these? lately ive also been having problems with recovery time. my current diet isnt quite up to where it needs to be, but even when i was working out naturally id have a day or so of soreness and thats it. i thought it was latic acid possibly but im on my third week back into working out and im still expirencing soreness last longer then what i think is normal. ive been drinking a hell of a lot of water and intaking a decent amount of protein, carbs, aminos, and getting around 10hrs of sleep. any ideas on why im having such a long recovery time(3to5 days) and like i said before thanks for all that info it is really appreciated

[Damienm05]

Forget about supplements for now. Save the money for real food - steaks, chicken breast, salmon, fresh tuna steaks, good organic produce - you'll make phenomenal gains with a nice grocery bill. If you wanna use some sort of pre-workout powder for energy/focus - that's cool but I don't and most of the bodybuilders I stay in touch with on this site don't either. A caffeine pill, a good pre-workout meal, and 2 scoops of whey isolate with 5g creatine monohydrate in the PWO shake works wonders. Beyond the food and the pre/post-workout supps, fish oil or other omega-3 pills/oil, and a good sport-specific or whole food multivitamin is a must (no 1-a-day bullshit - think of vitamins like protein, you want something substantial and whole food based that releases it's benefits throughout the day).

Recovery time also comes down to nutrition bud. Put it this way, do an intense chest workout and then go eat 10k calories as your PWO meal - I PROMISE you won't be sore 1/2 as long (don't do it because you'll get fat obviously lol). However, despite proper nutrition, my chest, triceps, and legs stay sore for several days but everyone is different - maybe it's other groups that have a longer recovery time for others. If growth is the goal, you shouldn't hit a muscle more than once every 4-5 days (most will say 7 is ideal) so unless it's because you're doing way too many sets, I wouldn't worry about lasting soreness - at least you know you're hitting it hard. Anyway, point being that if nutrition is on-point, sleep is good, you're energetic, and you're not over-training - 3-5 days of soreness probably indicates good training imo but maybe others will chime in,.

[9za4ck4]

oh ok, my workout is kinda like a muscle group a day, another question back when i was juicing i got my bench up to 415 now i hear alot about "muscle memory" but since i gained it all unnaturally am i looking at a long road before i can throw up big weight again? and i miss having the "pump" anything you would recommend to increase blood flow? maybe more cardio or something i can eat more of?

[Damienm05]

Obviously when your body isn't flowing with exponentially more test than what's natural, you won't get the same pump. Arginine and creatine help as well as proper carbohydrate manipulation. A lot of NO supps yield a nice pump but it's not really doing anything, lol.

Muscle memory is great and just because you were on a cycle when you gained it, doesn't mean it never happened. If you're beyond your natural potential, you won't get there without steroids but at your weight - you're nowhere near natural potential and provided you ran proper PCTs, your natty test production should be good. So that said, if your training is what it needs to be and your diet is what it should be, you'll get there again faster than someone starting from scratch.

[9za4ck4]

ahhh that makes me excited knowing that i would hate waiting a yr+ or just to get back into 350+ range. im currently only around 255 which i dont think is terrible after 8months of not working out at all but then again its devastating knowing what ive lost.

but mass blood flow doesnt really have a plus side? how so? i personally just completely love how it feels and love the veins, but i thought it helped with recovery time and helped push nutrients into the muscles and so forth?

[Damienm05]

Sure there's a plus side - looking huge, vascular, and feeling good in the gym. But no, provided your diet is good and you're taking PWO creatine, it offers nothing with regard to recovery that a balanced diet can't. As for forcing nutrients into the muscles, that's all about glycogen. These pump supps, to oversimplify, simply fill you up with air. Still, I share a workspace at the gym with a guy who uses NOXplode and I'm not saying I don't have a scoop when I'm feeling flat every now and then though, haha. Just that it does nothing for my gains beyond what my diet/training already do.

[bigslick7878]

So im looking for a good way to gain weight besides roids. although i have already done 3 cycles by the age 19 (currently 20 now) i am wanting a new way to go about things so im looking for a hard clean diet.

ok so heres the info i can give you despite what ive done its been 8 months since ive done anything. in my last cycle i had to accidents leaving me injured and unable to really work out whether or not it was the roids fault its debatable. but my injuries were a torn ligament in my knee and my shoulder was hurt pretty bad. now getting back into working out i am kinda having problems with both but its not anything terrible i just notice some discomfort.

now i have high goals but i would be happy with being where i was when i was on roids i just want to get there naturally so if that can be possible that would be amazing.

so heres where im at
age 20
height 5'10
weight 170
bf% plays around 13

heres where i was
age 18/19
height 5'10
weight 187
bf% 6

now i know theres alot of info im leaving out just ask me a ? and il answer it oh and i already know roids at the age i started was young, i know this i really do. i know what i was risking, i dont plan on going back to roids which is why im looking for info to go naturally.

Totally speechless.

OMG.

How does one start "getting back into working out" after doing 3 cycles by the age of 20? When exactly was this "break"???

What did you start at 16???

Stupidity knows no bounds I guess. Good Lord.

[9za4ck4]

Totally speechless.

OMG.

How does one start "getting back into working out" after doing 3 cycles by the age of 20? When exactly was this "break"???

What did you start at 16???

Stupidity knows no bounds I guess. Good Lord.

no started at 17.5 and i was injured and didnt work out for 8 months. i was just looking for a good proper diet and what not but damienm05 has went above and beyond on the help which is highly appreciated. i dont need your input thanks if your not here to help then i do not care to hear what you have to say thanks

[9za4ck4]

Sure there's a plus side - looking huge, vascular, and feeling good in the gym. But no, provided your diet is good and you're taking PWO creatine, it offers nothing with regard to recovery that a balanced diet can't. As for forcing nutrients into the muscles, that's all about glycogen. These pump supps, to oversimplify, simply fill you up with air. Still, I share a workspace at the gym with a guy who uses NOXplode and I'm not saying I don't have a scoop when I'm feeling flat every now and then though, haha. Just that it does nothing for my gains beyond what my diet/training already do.

good information as always thanks again if i have any more ?s il know to come to you

[bigslick7878]

no started at 17.5 and i was injured and didnt work out for 8 months. i was just looking for a good proper diet and what not but damienm05 has went above and beyond on the help which is highly appreciated. i dont need your input thanks if your not here to help then i do not care to hear what you have to say thanks

You should probably go to a doctor and see how bad you screwed yourself up, and then hit the psychologist right after that.

[9za4ck4]

You should probably go to a doctor and see how bad you screwed yourself up, and then hit the psychologist right after that.

il get right on that, great info i so appreciate it that was amazing thanks

[Damienm05]

Come on Bigslick - I'm sure he already got a lot of shit in the AAS forum... It's completely unproductive to simply insult him for his bad decisions in the past. It's our job, ideally, to give him the info and support he needs to do things the right way and not flame him for being an idiot in the past. Just like any other drug, synthetic hormones can be very psychologically addictive and he's not the first kid to fall into this mess.