First Cycle Questions.

[HeyItsCraig]

I'm 5' 10" 155 lbs. Very lean and low percentage of body fat. I recently lost about 10 lbs after vacation, becoming ill, and being stuck in a sling for a while.

In order to regain some of my weight and possibly more my first cycle is as follows :

Week 1-4 - Dbol 20mg twice a day

Week 4-14 - Test-e 250mg once a week

I would like your opinions and and suggestions on not only my cycle, but what PCTs I should invest in. (I'm currently obtainin Novaldex.)

Thank you.

[Bertuzzi]

AAS is not for you my friend.... not yet anyways, you should probably focus on diet and training being your height and weight. AAS will not help you, anything you were to gain while on cycle you will loose when you come off, even with good PCT. The reason for this is you do not have the base to hold your new gains. I speak from experience cuz I did it at 6'1 and 187 and probably had more muscle than you and lost almost all my gains. Its emotionally hard on you and physically hard and definitely not worth shutting your body down.

Eat good and train hard, put on some natural weight then look to AAS if you want more.

Good Luck

[HeyItsCraig]

Based on my height and weight, I'm and average build. A little on the slim side yes but not underweight. My frame may not keep every bit of my gains but that wasn't the goal, my apologies for not making that clear. My normal mass will return with time, just as it always does after being sick or lack of training...HOWEVER I want to boost it further and make the attempt to keep the added mass.

As far as diet and training go I've recently adjusted both to compensate for the time lost due to illness and injury. I normally lift 4-5 days a week and run 5 miles day. If I lacked cardio I'd be heavier (body fat be damned) and would probably suit what you would suggest is a good base.

I apologize for neglecting certain details in my initial post, I been more specific goals when I ask for opinions.

[Bertuzzi]

Even if you hadn't lost that 10lbs from being sick, you wouldn't be ready for AAS. When I was referring to not keeping your gains, I meant after you come off the cycle and nothing to do with the fact that you just lost 10lbs due to illness. I know you want it, trust me I understand but its not worth it. Lets say you get your normal weight back up to 165 then run a cycle and gain 18lbs to 183. Would you be happy? Of course you would but what going to happen is 6 weeks after coming off cycle you'll be back to 168lbs whether you eat right and train and PCT.... you just don't have the natural muscle base to support an maintain your new found gains... like I said, I am speaking from experience.

*The numbers I've used in this post were just examples please don't quote or correct me on these*

[HeyItsCraig]

I hear your concern, and I can see where I'd benefit from your experience... I really do. But if I didn't keep any gains I wouldn't be devastated. It'd be money spent on a cycle that taught me how I'd react to the substances if at the very least.

But as far as a concern goes for safe come down, what did your PCTs include.

[redz]

That cycle is weak and you are very small, you need to work on your diet.

[HeyItsCraig]

That cycle is weak and you are very small, you need to work on your diet.

The cycle isn't too strong, the test-e lacks in mgs I'm aware. I prefered something light for a first time user. As for very small, lol I'm average size. Thanks though.

[ranman32566]

I'm 5' 10" 155 lbs. Very lean and low percentage of body fat. I recently lost about 10 lbs after vacation, becoming ill, and being stuck in a sling for a while.

In order to regain some of my weight and possibly more my first cycle is as follows :

Week 1-4 - Dbol 20mg twice a day

Week 4-14 - Test-e 250mg once a week

I would like your opinions and and suggestions on not only my cycle, but what PCTs I should invest in. (I'm currently obtainin Novaldex.)

Thank you.

I would run Test E 1-14 500 wk

[Tlee8769]

Run 500 per week 1-12 weeks with Nolva on hand and some aromasin just in case for your pct. How long have you been training for?

[Bertuzzi]

I would run Test E 1-14 500 wk

Where do these idiots come from???

[Bertuzzi]

Run 500 per week 1-12 weeks with Nolva on hand and some aromasin just in case for your pct. How long have you been training for?

Oh.... another one....

[Tlee8769]

Oh.... another one....

Oh another one ???

[Tlee8769]

If i was you just read all the sticky threads alot of great info bro.

[dsldsl1980]

If you really read enough here you would see that bert is trying to save you time and money. If you want to cycle here is what is going to happen. You will gain a good 15 lb or so and will feel great and strong. Then you will do your PCT half ass, not eat enough to maintain your gains and lose everything you earned and have a lower over all test level than what you started with. Good luck bro

[HeyItsCraig]

If you really read enough here you would see that bert is trying to save you time and money. If you want to cycle here is what is going to happen. You will gain a good 15 lb or so and will feel great and strong. Then you will do your PCT half ass, not eat enough to maintain your gains and lose everything you earned and have a lower over all test level than what you started with. Good luck bro

I'm happy you assume that my PCT will not only be inadequate but that I will refuse to eat a sufficient amount...without actually having gathered knowledge on how much I eat currently, what I plan to eat, and how often I eat.

I see that being something you said because you're probably frustrated with the amount of stubborn newbies that come in and out of the forums. Believe me, an uneducated person could in fact be hurt by even a low dose cycle like mine because of their lack of preparation... I understand that.

I'm an intellectual human being, I'm sure you consider yourself to be as well (or so I hope.) So instead of predicting a future that may or may not come to pass, I'd like to cut through the shit in this thread and just get some advice on PCTs. I already have the general opinion on the cycle itself. I've done my research, but part of it is to consult the public as well. I'm not asking anyone to hold my hand, don't consider me naive and lacking in knowledge. I'm just being thorough.

[Bertuzzi]

I'm happy you assume that my PCT will not only be inadequate but that I will refuse to eat a sufficient amount...without actually having gathered knowledge on how much I eat currently, what I plan to eat, and how often I eat.

I see that being something you said because you're probably frustrated with the amount of stubborn newbies that come in and out of the forums. Believe me, an uneducated person could in fact be hurt by even a low dose cycle like mine because of their lack of preparation... I understand that.

I'm an intellectual human being, I'm sure you consider yourself to be as well (or so I hope.) So instead of predicting a future that may or may not come to pass, I'd like to cut through the shit in this thread and just get some advice on PCTs. I already have the general opinion on the cycle itself. I've done my research, but part of it is to consult the public as well. I'm not asking anyone to hold my hand, don't consider me naive and lacking in knowledge. I'm just being thorough.

I don't know how to say this... you're not reading whats important, its like you're omitting the most important thing we are trying to tell you.... I guess I have to say it in an extremely simple way.... Good PCT or not, you won't hold your gains when its all said and done, because you simply do not have enough muscle at this point. Hit 185 or 190 naturally then think of using AAS. I don't know what else to tell you, ask any VET or HOF'er on here, they'll agree

[dru23]

I don't know how to say this... you're not reading whats important, its like you're omitting the most important thing we are trying to tell you.... I guess I have to say it in an extremely simple way.... Good PCT or not, you won't hold your gains when its all said and done, because you simply do not have enough muscle at this point. Hit 185 or 190 naturally then think of using AAS. I don't know what else to tell you, ask any VET or HOF'er on here, they'll agree

im no vet or hof'er but this is definitely right. at 5'10 155, you have wayy too much natural growth potential before going aas rout. im 5'11 and i was 210 at 8% bf before i considered using aas. and i didnt eat entirely right or i could have done better than that. but if you dont mind, would you post your daily eating habbits and plans for eating after.

the truth is you should hit the diet forum and get some info on food, at that weight you wont keep your gains, you just wont. i dont assume you wouldnt eat right or pct correctly, im sure you are as capable as anyone else of doing those things the right way, but you still have no chance of keeping the gains, and you would be able to gain just as well naturally until you get to a good plateau and begin to find it hard to put on another lb. which at that weight you could comfortably gain a few pounds every week or two if you eat and train the right way.

[dru23]

and on another note, why would you run dbol weeks 1-4 then start running test on week 4? dbol should be ran with the test, no this isnt a must, but if you plan on running test anyways, you should do test the whole time.

[HeyItsCraig]

and on another note, why would you run dbol weeks 1-4 then start running test on week 4? dbol should be ran with the test, no this isnt a must, but if you plan on running test anyways, you should do test the whole time.

Ran at different times to isolate the side effects either might have. I hardly take this cycle seriously, its basically a test run to see if it will get me anywhere. Whether or not the gains stay is really not going to bother me. However I just wanted advice on a proper PCT to ensure my homeostasis is protected afterwards.

I really don't see how I'm "omitting" anything. I asked for advice on 2 things, the cycle and its PCT. I take your advice seriously, but choose to not follow it in this case. You're main reasons to avoid the AAS are as follows :

-you won't keep gains
-you'll screw up your chemical makeup

So I'm saying, keeping the gains isn't going to bother me, I'll work at it and if it doesnt stay... oh well, my heart won't be broken. But I'll sure as hell work to TRY and keep the gains.

Secondly, if the aftermath concerning my body, is a concern of yours... perhaps you can at least attempt to offer advice on the PCT which is what I've been trying to get for the last 3 posts or so.

[Scottish-Muscle]

Ran at different times to isolate the side effects either might have. I hardly take this cycle seriously, its basically a test run to see if it will get me anywhere. Whether or not the gains stay is really not going to bother me. However I just wanted advice on a proper PCT to ensure my homeostasis is protected afterwards.

I really don't see how I'm "omitting" anything. I asked for advice on 2 things, the cycle and its PCT. I take your advice seriously, but choose to not follow it in this case. You're main reasons to avoid the AAS are as follows :

-you won't keep gains
-you'll screw up your chemical makeup

So I'm saying, keeping the gains isn't going to bother me, I'll work at it and if it doesnt stay... oh well, my heart won't be broken. But I'll sure as hell work to TRY and keep the gains.

Secondly, if the aftermath concerning my body, is a concern of yours... perhaps you can at least attempt to offer advice on the PCT which is what I've been trying to get for the last 3 posts or so.

Tbh I'd agree with other guys advising you against. First off saying this is just a test run to see what happens is the wrong attitude, first cycle is important, secondly if you fk things up it will be on your head no one elses. I wouldn't run dbol first then test reason being they work well in synergist as the test takes a few weeks to kick in hence the kick start, side effects will still be same??? so no idea why you wouldn't think so.

Also pointless going on gear at your weight, sure sure you may be "average" but try piling some weight on first. Your nowhere near your potential, so why waste it. Hit a higher level and build PROPER foundations and then advance it with gear no problem and you will look a lot better. These "quick" answers are really just quick ways to mess yourself up.

[HeyItsCraig]

Side effects vary from one substance to another so no... they wont necessarily be the same. The idea is to isolate which gives me which.

Pointless? I hardly think so. If done correctly I won't (lol) "mess myself up." I'm coming here to further my knowledge and ensure I'm taking necessary measures to counter act any harmful side effects. AAS has risks, just like any other drug. I've already dealt with the thought of that. So if anything, I'll lose my gains and be at square one.

Now thank you BritishNutrition, because whether or not you agree on my plan of action... you've actually provided assistance and answered a portion of my question without repeating for the 8th time that I shouldn't take AAS.

The idea was to comment on the cycle itself and its PCTs, not my natural potential. And although I'm actually a little frustrated because it took about 10 posts to get some PCT advice, I really do appreciate the concern and knowledge you guys are sharing, because whether or not I follow the advice of not takin the juice... I will be that much more careful if I do.

[Tlee8769]

PCT suggestions if you are taking test...

Week Nolvadex HCG Aromasin Vitamin E
1 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
2 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
3 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
4 20mgs/day 20-25mgs/day
5 20mgs/day 20-25mgs/day
6 20mgs/day

Or this one which is the better way to go in most peoples opinions.

2. Test Enan/Prop Cycle Lasting 6-14 Weeks

wk 1-6 Tamox 20mg/ED
wk 1-6 Tore 60mg/ED (120mg/ED first 14 days) OR Clomid 25mg/ED (50-100mg/ED first 7-14 days)
*HCG 250ius 2-3 times/wk (on cycle)
*Aromasin 10mg/EOD (on cycle)

[Blade15]

Based on my height and weight, I'm and average build. A little on the slim side yes but not underweight. My frame may not keep every bit of my gains but that wasn't the goal, my apologies for not making that clear. My normal mass will return with time, just as it always does after being sick or lack of training...HOWEVER I want to boost it further and make the attempt to keep the added mass.

As far as diet and training go I've recently adjusted both to compensate for the time lost due to illness and injury. I normally lift 4-5 days a week and run 5 miles day. If I lacked cardio I'd be heavier (body fat be damned) and would probably suit what you would suggest is a good base.

I apologize for neglecting certain details in my initial post, I been more specific goals when I ask for opinions.

What do you mean you are not underweight.. you are way underweight bro... you can gain +30/35 pounds naturally... Bertuzzi is right..listen to him.. Read stickies...

[Blade15]

Where do these idiots come from???

Agree 1000000X.....

[Blade15]

PCT suggestions if you are taking test...

Week Nolvadex HCG Aromasin Vitamin E
1 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
2 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
3 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
4 20mgs/day 20-25mgs/day
5 20mgs/day 20-25mgs/day
6 20mgs/day

Or this one which is the better way to go in most peoples opinions.

2. Test Enan/Prop Cycle Lasting 6-14 Weeks

wk 1-6 Tamox 20mg/ED
wk 1-6 Tore 60mg/ED (120mg/ED first 14 days) OR Clomid 25mg/ED (50-100mg/ED first 7-14 days)
*HCG 250ius 2-3 times/wk (on cycle)
*Aromasin 10mg/EOD (on cycle)

Dont you see he is only 155 lbs at 5'10'' ht....???? how you recommend him to cycle on that weight..???? or you are also having stats like him? 5'11'' and 145 lbs???

[HeyItsCraig]

Underweight and room for improvement are not synonymous. Just because I have the potential of gaining another 30 lbs doesn't mean that I'm underweight.

For a healthy male at my height, I'm actually at an average weight. Anyone who has had a physical lately could tell you that.

And once again 155 is actually inaccurate due to time off from the gym and bad diet. (Read the original post please.)

So please, I understand your concern... But it's a relatively frail cycle and I'm almost back up to normal weight as I type this... So let's try to avoid antagonizing people and focus on the questions.

However at this point I think I've obtained enough info.

Thanks for the help guys

[J. Cole]

You should not be cycling to "regain" weight. You should reach your body's limits by dedication in your training regiment AND diet first. In my opinion, if you are not dedicated enough to get out of this "slump" you are in due to illness and what not, you are not dedicated enough to the lifestyle to even consider using steroids.

[Blade15]

Man... he thinks 155 lbs for 5'10'' is ideal... hahahahaha... its ideal if you want to be a avg/skinny guy... if you want to be a big freak... then its toooooooooo underweight for your height.. get my point????

[HeyItsCraig]

I believe I mentioned that most of my weight has actually returned already. But that's cool...

Hey guys you're right, I won't do steroids. Thanks for saving my life.

[07santafe]

craig man i think your taking this all wrong i dont think guys are trying to be dicks to you its not like your being kept out of their secret little club they are just giving you the best advice they know and thats what you asked for it might not be the advice you wanted to hear but its what you need to listen to. 155 is tiny for 5'10 if you hit the gym hard you should be able to reach 190 no problem. you just have to put in the time and get to a reasonable weight first then look to aas for a last resort not your first trick in the bag bud

[Bertuzzi]

I think we can let this thread go.... he's a little kid, who will never understand, he probably won't even figure it out after its happened. Some people don't have the mental capacity to handle certain things. You can only help those who want to be helped.

Let this guy go be a hero to himself.

[SAMS_DAD]

PCT suggestions if you are taking test...

Week Nolvadex HCG Aromasin Vitamin E
1 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
2 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
3 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
4 20mgs/day 20-25mgs/day
5 20mgs/day 20-25mgs/day
6 20mgs/day

Or this one which is the better way to go in most peoples opinions.

2. Test Enan/Prop Cycle Lasting 6-14 Weeks

wk 1-6 Tamox 20mg/ED
wk 1-6 Tore 60mg/ED (120mg/ED first 14 days) OR Clomid 25mg/ED (50-100mg/ED first 7-14 days)
*HCG 250ius 2-3 times/wk (on cycle)
*Aromasin 10mg/EOD (on cycle)

What a horrible pct plan. OP, do not plan this type of pct, yours (when you put on more natural weight) should only consist of a simple nolva/clomid pct (his 2nd pct post regarding tamox/tore looks like something swifto wrote up which would definitely be sufficient, but you could get by a simple nolva/clomid pct running a basic test cycle). And you don't need 2 different types of test your first cycle, stick to a simple test e or c only cycle. Research more bro, there are several pct threads for beginner cycles. But like the others have said, your pretty thin, you need to diet properly, add more weight then cycle when you have everything on hand, laid out properly.

[Tlee8769]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-A-with-Swifto.... Read some info on PCT and do some more research here is another one to read http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...teroid.com-%29. There both stickies. Look into more before you flap your gums pal. And maybe send him a link to something to back your claim and help him out rather then just stating things other people have said previously to him.

[SAMS_DAD]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-A-with-Swifto.... Read some info on PCT and do some more research here is another one to read http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...teroid.com-%29. There both stickies. Look into more before you flap your gums pal. And maybe send him a link to something to back your claim and help him out rather then just stating things other people have said previously to him.

why am i going to help him out when he's not even ready, that's your job, a newb that knows nothing. Why don't you research more for yourself and not for your 'friend' (when to add masteron to cycle thread), then you won't provide bad advise. I stated that your 2nd layout, which was provided by swifto was correct, but your 1st pct advise is horrible. I'm not going to provide pct information to this member cause he's not ready to cycle yet, but you went ahead and did it anyway, kudos to you! Let's see what he has to say later on down the line when his gains vanish after cycle. On another note, didn't members advise you as well not to cycle, since just like Craig, you weren't fully prepared yourself (yet you went ahead and did it).

[ghettoboyd]

Side effects vary from one substance to another so no... they wont necessarily be the same. The idea is to isolate which gives me which.

Pointless? I hardly think so. If done correctly I won't (lol) "mess myself up." I'm coming here to further my knowledge and ensure I'm taking necessary measures to counter act any harmful side effects. AAS has risks, just like any other drug. I've already dealt with the thought of that. So if anything, I'll lose my gains and be at square one.

Now thank you BritishNutrition, because whether or not you agree on my plan of action... you've actually provided assistance and answered a portion of my question without repeating for the 8th time that I shouldn't take AAS.

The idea was to comment on the cycle itself and its PCTs, not my natural potential. And although I'm actually a little frustrated because it took about 10 posts to get some PCT advice, I really do appreciate the concern and knowledge you guys are sharing, because whether or not I follow the advice of not takin the juice... I will be that much more careful if I do.

all the answers you will ever need are contained in multiple treads in this forum.. instead of asking peeps why not take a few minutes and find out for yourself...and for the million'th time bro you are so not ready for this.... as smart as you clearly are, the plain truth laid out before you seems to fly right over your head....with all the people giving you advise with there actuall real world experiance/knowledge telling you what happened to them when they too where in your situation, you still seem to dissregard it all cus it clearly wont happen to you and if it dose you dont care....its all just rediculously stupid...we are all just beating a dead horse here as he will in no doubt out smart all the side/after-effects of his poorly planned cycle....maybee your rite op and you will walk away no problems or maybee this will be the biggest mistake of your life...eather way keep us posted....good luck...

[Fetch]

Something I'm surprised that everyone missed is his age. Checking his post history, he was 19 as of Nov 2009. That puts him at 20-21 now.

So, you are 20-21 years old, 5'10, 155-165 lbs. You are exactly the type of person the media demonizes for steroid use. You SHOULD NOT be using. There is no way for you to do this healthfully. Yes, you can **** yourself up from 1 cycle. You can **** yourself up from injecting 100 mg/week of Test. Shutdown is shutdown.

You clearly do not have the diet down for gaining and maintaining muscle. This isn't a knock against you, it's an observation of fact. You are a small guy. If you were eating properly, you wouldn't be. You can do yourself A LOT of good by hitting the diet section here. Read up. Post your current diet. Let the experts there help.

You risk obvious physical injury. Being vastly underweight for a bodybuilder, you do not have a solid base. If you do somehow miraculously put on a lot of weight, you might end up tearing the muscle right off the bone because your connective tissue hasn't been developed properly yet. Steroids affect only muscle growth, not ligaments and tendons.

You risk permanent damage to your endocrine system. Before the age of 24-25, your endocrine system is in development. This is the system in the body that provides hormones such as testosterone. When you use steroids, this shuts off. You want to shut your endocrine system down WHILE it's trying to grow. That is an awful idea, trust me. You greatly magnify the risks involved with steroids by doing this at an early age. Possible sides from low test include depression, loss of libido, inability to achieve or maintain an erection, inability to maintain muscle mass, lethargy/laziness, etc. Yes, it can happen from just one cycle. It happened to me. It's happened to personal friends of mine. It's common, and it's for life.

I know it's tempting, but this is not something you want. Because of my early use, I can't have kids, nor can I get it up without being on cycle or Cialis. I have to explain that to girls sometimes. It sucks. Use if you absolutely have to, but don't expect us to help you do this to yourself.

[HeyItsCraig]

I'll keep you guys updated, with honesty. If I lose the gains, I lose the gains. I won't be afraid to admit if someone else made the correct prediction.

You were right and I was wrong type of thing. And if I can't get my dick hard anymore I'll slash another line in the "you were right category."

HOWEVER, if I come back and and tell you that I kept enough of the gains to be worth the money/effort the cycle cost me... I would at least hope you would take it as a sign that not everyone like me is "unfit" for AAS.

Only time will tell now.

[Fetch]

Not true. If you somehow dodge the bullet, it still doesn't make it right for others to play Russian Roulette with their penis at such a high risk.

[Tlee8769]

why am i going to help him out when he's not even ready, that's your job, a newb that knows nothing. Why don't you research more for yourself and not for your 'friend' (when to add masteron to cycle thread), then you won't provide bad advise. I stated that your 2nd layout, which was provided by swifto was correct, but your 1st pct advise is horrible. I'm not going to provide pct information to this member cause he's not ready to cycle yet, but you went ahead and did it anyway, kudos to you! Let's see what he has to say later on down the line when his gains vanish after cycle. On another note, didn't members advise you as well not to cycle, since just like Craig, you weren't fully prepared yourself (yet you went ahead and did it).

Thats right i did im 26 years old i know the consequences I have a clear outline for a PCT and during my cycle. I have gained 14 pounds so far and im just entering my third week not to bad. I take the advice from people on here seriously but i am in close contact with my doctor if i am in need of any serious enough questions. This is my cycle Test E 12 weeks 500 per week with HCG 250iux2 a week with aromasin 10mg eod. Im 26 years old 6 foot currently 184 pounds been lifting for 10+ years waited till i was a correct age and was at some plateaus that i could not get passed naturally. It may be opinions of you and others that im not prepared enough but i am prepared and comfortable with my cycle myself.When to add masteron to cycle thread ive already stated my case there obviously a person of your intellect wouldnt understand. Kudos to you knowing it all. So next time you have something to say make it useful instead of useless.

[HeyItsCraig]

I told you guys I'd post my results...

I gained 20 on cycle lean mass.

Couple weeks off the cycle I lost about 5 of it, with minimal time at the gym due work related time constraint.

To this day I have kept 13-15 lbs gained from my gear and the only side effect I retain right now is some minor acne on my back which I assume will fade with time, which it is doing already.

Looks like if you do it responsibly you'll be okay....JUST like any other drug...

What a surprise.