Prop + Winny Cutting Cycle. Opinions wanted

[chrisworrell]

Stats
Age: 23
Weight: 180
BF%: 12%

I do not plan to start this cycle I am *considering* until I am down to at least 10% and hopefully still at 180lbs.

Goal

My ultimate goal is to drop to somewhere around 7%bf. Who knows what weight I will be at, It would be nice if I could stay around the same losing about 6lbs fat and gaining 6lbs if I can get more great, I don't know what really to expect though

Previous Experience

I do have experience with a 10 week test e cycle last year with clen/t3 and got some very good results. Very small cycle I know was more testing the waters and how it affected me.

I feel i'm very well versed in diet as well (I will share that in a minute what I was thinking to go along with the cycle) I used to be a fatass but a couple years ago lost 50 pounds in the matter of 5 months by learning what a perfect diet with high protein actually is. I have experience tracking my diet exactly for about two years now.

Cycle

Initially I was considering 50mg winny ED only but after reading enough of your opinions through some searches I have decided to consider throwing the prop in there. (Will be open to ideas that a winny only cycle will work in my situation though )

6 week cycle:

100mg Test Prop EOD inj. (M/W/F and taking a two day break on the weekend)
50mg Winny ED oral

My PCT would be as follows and would start 3 days after last prop inj.:
Clomid- 100/100/50/50
Nolvadex- 40/40/20/20

During this time I will also be doing Clen at 60mcg/day for the first two weeks and the last two weeks, ECA stack for the middle two weeks.

Workout

Bill Starr's 5x5
Boxing 2x/week for a total of 3 hours
4-5 mile run 3x/week

Diet

My diet's goal will consist of aiming for 250+g protein per day every day (probably 50-60% protein, 25-30% carb, 15-20% fat) still haven't hammered out all the details:

Breakfast
Egg white omelette's with veggies
Turkey Bacon
Oatmeal
Whey Protein Shake

Lunch (Twice a day at lunch time and then Pre-WO)
1)Brown Rice, Tuna, Olive Oil
or
2)Chicken Breast and veggies

Post WO
Hydro Whey Shake

Dinner
1)Grilled Chicken Salad w/ veggies
2)Lean Ground Beef burger w/ veggies
3)Fish w/ veggies

Bedtime
Cottage Cheese
Casein Shake

Snacks
Typically stick to a serving of nuts (cashews usually) or a protein bar

And as I said before I will be aiming for around 250+g of protein per day a little more on days I go to the gym. Caloric intake will be around 2000-2250. I havent finalized the exact of amounts but I will have an exact diet down to every little bit of food I put in me. Currently my BMR is about 2750.

Other Supplements

I do have a question if I should continue using them if I were to start this cycle, they are:

Glutamine, L-Carnitine, Beta-Alanine, ZMA, Creatine, Fish Oil

Any others I should consider?

Conclusion

So give me your worst, is this terrible? almost halfway decent/correct? Opinions wanted on where I can improve.

[THE-DET-OAK]

how tall are you? i wouldnt advise running that much on winny..........may hurt a tendon.

[Windex]

Stats
Age: 23
Weight: 180
BF%: 12%

I do not plan to start this cycle I am *considering* until I am down to at least 10% and hopefully still at 180lbs.

Goal

My ultimate goal is to drop to somewhere around 7%bf. Who knows what weight I will be at, It would be nice if I could stay around the same losing about 6lbs fat and gaining 6lbs if I can get more great, I don't know what really to expect though

Previous Experience

I do have experience with a 10 week test e cycle last year with clen/t3 and got some very good results. Very small cycle I know was more testing the waters and how it affected me.

I feel i'm very well versed in diet as well (I will share that in a minute what I was thinking to go along with the cycle) I used to be a fatass but a couple years ago lost 50 pounds in the matter of 5 months by learning what a perfect diet with high protein actually is. I have experience tracking my diet exactly for about two years now.

Cycle

Initially I was considering 50mg winny ED only but after reading enough of your opinions through some searches I have decided to consider throwing the prop in there. (Will be open to ideas that a winny only cycle will work in my situation though )

6 week cycle:

100mg Test Prop EOD inj. (M/W/F and taking a two day break on the weekend)
50mg Winny ED oral

My PCT would be as follows and would start 3 days after last prop inj.:
Clomid- 100/100/50/50
Nolvadex- 40/40/20/20

During this time I will also be doing Clen at 60mcg/day for the first two weeks and the last two weeks, ECA stack for the middle two weeks.

Workout

Bill Starr's 5x5
Boxing 2x/week for a total of 3 hours
4-5 mile run 3x/week

Diet

My diet's goal will consist of aiming for 250+g protein per day every day (probably 50-60% protein, 25-30% carb, 15-20% fat) still haven't hammered out all the details:

Breakfast
Egg white omelette's with veggies
Turkey Bacon
Oatmeal
Whey Protein Shake

Lunch (Twice a day at lunch time and then Pre-WO)
1)Brown Rice, Tuna, Olive Oil
or
2)Chicken Breast and veggies

Post WO
Hydro Whey Shake

Dinner
1)Grilled Chicken Salad w/ veggies
2)Lean Ground Beef burger w/ veggies
3)Fish w/ veggies

Bedtime
Cottage Cheese
Casein Shake

Snacks
Typically stick to a serving of nuts (cashews usually) or a protein bar

And as I said before I will be aiming for around 250+g of protein per day a little more on days I go to the gym. Caloric intake will be around 2000-2250. I havent finalized the exact of amounts but I will have an exact diet down to every little bit of food I put in me. Currently my BMR is about 2750.

Other Supplements

I do have a question if I should continue using them if I were to start this cycle, they are:

Glutamine, L-Carnitine, Beta-Alanine, ZMA, Creatine, Fish Oil

Any others I should consider?

Conclusion

So give me your worst, is this terrible? almost halfway decent/correct? Opinions wanted on where I can improve.

Terrible for multiple reasons. For starters, your too young, and shouldn't have even cycled last year. Your not going to be in any competition or being doing this for a living, so it would be wise to wait atleast another two years to build a better base and work out your diet and training. In addition, Bodybuilding is 80% Diet, 15% Training, and 5% Gear/Genetics, as I will illustrate in the following sentences. This site does not advocate the use of AAS to anyone under the age of 25. For starters, your diet is decent but needs a lot of work. Protein bars are merely over-marketed, socially-enhanced chocolate bars. They have no place in a dedicated bodybuilding diet and are for emergency purposes only. Not too mention Casein Shake AND Cottage cheese is overkill before bed. Do you sleep for 12 hours or something? Turkey bacon is also rubbish. In addition, your workout regime needs work as well. A 5x5 routine is great for strength training and power lifting, but wouldn't be nearly as optimal when your goal is losing weight, specifically bodyfat. You have a lot more research to do and reading, which will answer your questions in regards to supplements. Lets pretend this is Magical Christmas Land, you cycle and get to your 7% BF and don't lose any muscle. I can swear eating like you do in the above diet will put you back to 10% BF in 5, maybe only 4 weeks after the cycle is over.

Conclusion: Put your diet and exact workout routine in their respective sub-forums of this site, and the experts/vets will help you achieve your goals, naturally. You also need to research more about anabolic compounds. Absolutely no need to cycle at your age, and get some blood work done in two years.

[Lemonada8]

I did winny as my 2nd cycle add on and I wouldst repeat it. I lost my hairline lol and didntfeel much hardness vs prop alone

[M302_Imola]

how tall are you? i wouldnt advise running that much on winny..........may hurt a tendon.

Really? I have ran orally winny at 80mg before and had very little joint/tendon pain. I might add I take a hefty dose of glucosamine, fish oil, and cissus.

[chrisworrell]

Fair enough, ill take my diet over to the appropriate section, can't promise i wont be back asking questions in 6 months though :P

And to the winny thing, yea I thought 50mg ED was fairly conservative

I am 5'10"ish

[Gaspari1255]

Terrible for multiple reasons. For starters, your too young, and shouldn't have even cycled last year. Your not going to be in any competition or being doing this for a living, so it would be wise to wait atleast another two years to build a better base and work out your diet and training. In addition, Bodybuilding is 80% Diet, 15% Training, and 5% Gear/Genetics, as I will illustrate in the following sentences. This site does not advocate the use of AAS to anyone under the age of 25. For starters, your diet is decent but needs a lot of work. Protein bars are merely over-marketed, socially-enhanced chocolate bars. They have no place in a dedicated bodybuilding diet and are for emergency purposes only. Not too mention Casein Shake AND Cottage cheese is overkill before bed. Do you sleep for 12 hours or something? Turkey bacon is also rubbish. In addition, your workout regime needs work as well. A 5x5 routine is great for strength training and power lifting, but wouldn't be nearly as optimal when your goal is losing weight, specifically bodyfat. You have a lot more research to do and reading, which will answer your questions in regards to supplements. Lets pretend this is Magical Christmas Land, you cycle and get to your 7% BF and don't lose any muscle. I can swear eating like you do in the above diet will put you back to 10% BF in 5, maybe only 4 weeks after the cycle is over.

Conclusion: Put your diet and exact workout routine in their respective sub-forums of this site, and the experts/vets will help you achieve your goals, naturally. You also need to research more about anabolic compounds. Absolutely no need to cycle at your age, and get some blood work done in two years.

You don't have validity to that statement because he did not show exact amounts. I do 1 Cup of cottage cheese and 3/4s a scoop of Casein powder before bed. Puts me right at about 55g of protein. There is nothing wrong with that. If he was taking in 2 cups of cottage cheese and 2 scoops of casein, yes I could see an issue with that. Don't make assumptions. I'm not on this fourm too much any more, but whenever I am, it seems like you talk out of your ass a lot and try to chastise others. I'm calling it out how I see it. Hate it or love it.

[manveer1]

Windex , you said " In addition, Bodybuilding is 80% Diet, 15% Training, and 5% Gear/Genetics" prove that before you say that. diet is a lot but saying its 80% and gear and training is 20% combined what the fvck
will welcome you PROVING me wrong

[THE-DET-OAK]

Really? I have ran orally winny at 80mg before and had very little joint/tendon pain. I might add I take a hefty dose of glucosamine, fish oil, and cissus.

honestly i wouldnt know, i just know that it reduces the strength of your tendons, especially with a healthy dose of test............and alot of others have said they cant stand the joint pain while on it...........so i stay away. ont top of being notorious for ****ing up your cholesterol.

if you need me to prove that it makes your joints brittle i can do that.......................although i thought it was common knowledge. maybe your the lucky one.

[chrisworrell]

Yea and as far as the cottage cheese and casein it was actually a one or the other, i dont take both at night

[Windex]

Windex , you said " In addition, Bodybuilding is 80% Diet, 15% Training, and 5% Gear/Genetics" prove that before you say that. diet is a lot but saying its 80% and gear and training is 20% combined what the fvck
will welcome you PROVING me wrong

I said gear is 5% and my numbers could be completely off-base. I was trying to emphasize that diet is the foundation of bodybuilding. You need a strong diet to ultimately be successful in training, and you need both an optimal diet and training to fully utilize steroids. I don't know how anyone would prove there is a certain percentage for diet/training/gear. I gave my opinion that diet is the most significant of those three aspects. I'm sorry you think my numbers are a huge exaggeration, as they certainly could be. How would you break it down ?

[Windex]

You don't have validity to that statement because he did not show exact amounts. I do 1 Cup of cottage cheese and 3/4s a scoop of Casein powder before bed. Puts me right at about 55g of protein. There is nothing wrong with that. If he was taking in 2 cups of cottage cheese and 2 scoops of casein, yes I could see an issue with that. Don't make assumptions. I'm not on this fourm too much any more, but whenever I am, it seems like you talk out of your ass a lot and try to chastise others. I'm calling it out how I see it. Hate it or love it.

That is true, he didn't provide any quantities to his meals. I did assume he would take a large dose of each, which was because every time I see a diet in the diet section the person had either chose to eat Cottage Cheese or drink a Casein shake, so I had never considering smaller portions of both.

I don't understand how you think I talk out of my ass though. I am very inexperienced relative to the majority of people here, so rather than give bad advice (since my knowledge is mediocre at best) all I've done (to my knowledge) is reiterate information found in the stickies when a young guy comes in looking for steroid advice or has a diet composed of 6 shakes a day and mass gainers. As well, it's my understanding that nobody should advocate someone under the age of 25 to use steroids, regardless of their stats.

[robofish]

gentics palys ALOT bigger than 5%

[M302_Imola]

honestly i wouldnt know, i just know that it reduces the strength of your tendons, especially with a healthy dose of test............and alot of others have said they cant stand the joint pain while on it...........so i stay away. ont top of being notorious for ****ing up your cholesterol.

if you need me to prove that it makes your joints brittle i can do that.......................although i thought it was common knowledge. maybe your the lucky one.

A lot of people over-hype the whole winny causing joint pain. More people need to take preventative measures before pinning all the blame on winny.