New to cutting - here's my diet and workout plan. Looking for comments

[GoNoles99]

Age: 20
Height: 5'8
Weight: 155
BF: ~18
Goal: Fat loss, especially ab visibility.

TDEE = 2742


About me: Been lifting pretty seriously for 6 years, when I started high school. Didn't start to focus on diet until recently. I have juvenile arthritis which is concentrated in my knees, this results in pain/discomfort in many leg exercises. Nothing I can't work through but it does negatively affect me.




I lift 4 days a week so I do not eat the PWO meal the other 3 days. I do my cardio PWO.

Cardio 5 days a week. Low intensity for 50-55 minutes. Walking on treadmill at 10% incline, 3.5-4 mph.

Thoughts?

[scotty51312]

I like simple carbs PWO, but 80g's of dextrose? DAMN! I wouldn't go higher than 50.

[GoNoles99]

Bump. Any thoughts?

[gbrice75]

Actually you're diet looks pretty damn good to me for the most part. The only changes i'd make are:

add a starchy carb to your preworkout meal. Keep the broccoli or move it to the PPWO meal

Drop the dextrose!!! it's completely unnecessary IMO... especially that much. You're 20% bodyfat and trying to cut - why eat pure sugar on purpose? Replace it with complex carbs - about 50g (leaving you 30g for pre-workout)

No a huge deal but whey iso would be better. I'm sure you know this and it's just a $$ issue. Do what you can handle

If $$ permits, eat something more substantial in the PPWO meal - the end of your day doesn't look great... shake, eggs, shake... no chance of getting some beef in there? I realize it's not cheap. Beef or even some oily fish would be great, better than the PB.

Other than that, your macros are similar to mine, I like them, although fat might be a bit high. What are the totals? (i'm too lazy to add right now lol)

[GoNoles99]

Thanks for the input. I'll drop the dextrose, I didn't want to have it in the first place but I'd seen it suggested for others so I threw it in there. Not sure what the macros will add up to. I've tried using calorieking before to calculate it but I always get frustrated using their interface, I type in "egg white" and get 40 different results.

I think I'll be able to use a friend's BJ's membership so I'm going to look around at meat prices. I'd definitely like to add another meal of beef or chicken in there somewhere.

For the starchy carb preworkout are you talking about something like whole wheat bread? And PWO I could have another bowl of oatmeal if that works.

[gbrice75]

Try livestrong dot com.. still get a lot of results but way better IMO... love their site.

Carbs - whole wheat is ok, but still a processed carb. I'm talking sweet potato, yam, oats, quinoa, rice (anything but white), lentils, beans, etc. If you want to go with whole grain bread, find something of really decent quality (Ezekiel is great). Same deal with other processed carbs like pasta.

Oatmeal is a great carb choice, PWO or any other time.

[GoNoles99]

Ah I see. I can throw some sweet potato in there easily. I'll try to add up the macros soon.

[Buddhabody]

Looks good, take Gbrice advice into consideration and you'll be fine..........good luck

[GoNoles99]

Thanks.

For portions I think I am going to try 6oz of tuna for meals 2 and 3, and somewhere around 4oz chicken for preworkout. I'll figure out the macros once I find which brand I'm actually using. Hoping to find tuna in bulk at sam's club. If I could do that everything would be dirt cheap to buy except the chicken breast.

[GoNoles99]

Things going well so far, I've been able to find some good prices on the foods I want. Just a few questions for you guys...


1. What kind of tuna should I be getting? Light? Not light? I usually just go for the cheapest option. Light seems to be cheaper but I'm guessing it's not as good for me?
2. Do I need to work on my PWO routine? So far I've been having 2 scoops of protein powder and 1/2 cup oats in my shake. I feel like I need more carbs, and also some faster acting carbs. I'm afraid dextrose will add too much sugar, I've been working hard to avoid sugar as much as possible.
3. When would be the next best time for me to do cardio other than upon waking? With my schedule and housing situation I don't think I can wake up at 5:30. I live with a couple other college kids who stay up rather late, people are over all the time, loud music, drinking (not me), etc. I try to get to bed by 11 but usually I can't get to sleep until 12. Under 6 hours of sleep isn't enough for me to get through my day. I work 8 hours painting which will not strenuous is enough that combined with my time in the gym I need more sleep. Cardio after my workout? At night a little before I go to bed?
4. Also, any opinions on what kind of cardio I should do? I was planning on 30-45 minutes of jogging but was wondering if there were some better ideas. Maybe interval training. My asthma is acting up so I can't really go too hard with cardio until it gets better. Not being a bitch here, there's nothing I can do if I'm coughing up a lung and weezing.

[GoNoles99]

Also with PWO I'm trying to eat a meal about an hour after I finish my workout. I have the shake immediately after, once I get in my car. I've been eating chicken and broccoli with the PWO meal, not sure if I should throw in some almonds or sweet potato as well.

I've been drinking nothing but water and working hard to drink a lot of water. Need to keep this up, I have a bad habit of downing really sugary drinks like lemonade or milk in bunches.

As a side note, I'm glad I haven't given into temptation yet. While my roomates are downing beers, pizza rolls and cake I've kept clean.

[GoNoles99]

Also I'm switching off between cottage cheese and a casein shake at night depending on how hungry I am, and throwing in some cottage cheese in other meals (not PWO though) if I don't think I have enough protein in my meal.

[GoNoles99]

Eating a banana with my PWO shake... yes? no?

[GoNoles99]

Any comments on the above questions?

I need to ease up on the cottage cheese. I love mixing it with peanut butter but the other night I had way too big a portion. Best tasting thing in my diet but I'm pretty sure I had about 3x as much as I should have been having.

[GoNoles99]

Finally got in some good cardio. asthma makes it difficult especially this time of year

[GoNoles99]

Might be talking to myself here but I'll update this again in case anyone is interested/for my own personal notes.

Diet is definitely working. I had two doctors' appointments within a couple weeks and had lost 5 pounds from the first to the second. I can see obvious differences on my stomach as well, I now have that line separating the hip/bottom of stomach on both sides, before you could really only see it on one.

Here's what I've eaten today
6:30 - 5oz tuna, 1/2 cup oats. Was in a hurry and didn't have time to make eggs.
9:30 - 1 scoop protein shake. Only convenient option here as I am at work and can't bring food with me. Will start using 1.5 scoops though
12:00 - 2 eggs, 5 egg whites, peanut butter. All the eggs I had left. Had about two small spoonfulls of peanut butter to go with it, used olive oil on the pan.
4:00 - (preworkout) - ~1 sweet potato, ~6oz 90% lean beef. This meal was an hour late as I was lazy getting out of work. Not sure how much SP I had, need to buy a food scale for home. Can't find anything leaner than 90% beef at the store so it's the best I have for now.
6:30 - (PWO) - 2 scoops protein, 1/2 cup oats, 1 banana

At 7:30 I will have another 6 oz meat, either beef or 93% lean ground turkey, along with some broccoli and almonds. Casein shake with some PB at 10:30 when I go to bed.

Trying to figure out what my PWO routine should be when I do cardio after (I didn't do cardio today as it was my legs day). Obviously I need protein or else I'm seriously hampering any gains I make in the gym. But do I go with carbs? The other day I just did 2 scoops protein and no oats or banana between lifting and cardio.

[gbrice75]

You're not alone bro, sorry if nobody's commented in a bit. Glad to hear you're making progress - when are we gonna see some pics?

As long as you're hitting your macros and making good food choices, you should continue to make progress. Don't worry about PWO nutrition between lifting and cardio. I have the same schedule and just do a PWO shake + oats right after cardio, then a real meal shortly after that (protein/carb). If you're worried and do still want something in between, go with either just a shake or better yet some BCAA's IMO.

[GoNoles99]

I have a few pictures of bad quality on my phone. If I can get a good before/after result I'll post them but with the poor picture quality it might be hard to see.

Glad to say that I'm finding the cardio not all that bad. Once I got a few sessions under my belt I can enjoy it a bit. Went with 50 minutes of elliptical the other day. No idea what this 65% of max on cardio people keep mentioning is... heart rate I'm guessing? I just put it at levels difficult enough that made me work but light enough that I could keep going for 45+ minutes.

Still trying to get more precise serving sizes. I need to buy a scale so I am not estimating how much I'm eating. My diet is so much healthier now than it was before that I feel like even if my portions and macros are off I will still see good results, but eventually if they are too high/low I'll stop progressing so I'm trying to get it all sorted out. I'll put up a spreadsheet with all the macros later.

[GoNoles99]

And thanks for the comment gbrice. I've been trying to catch up on your thread, really informative with all the different theories and info in there. Think I'm only on page 15 or so so I've got a ways to go haha.

[GoNoles99]

Changing up my workout routine, old one was pretty bad. Not gonna post a new thread in the workout forum I'll just leave it here.

Order of exercises and exact exercises will vary day to day to keep things fresh. Sometimes I'll lessen the weight and do long negatives, change up times between sets, etc. I'm not going to list reps as they vary too much but generally they are 8-10 reps, always done slow and controlled. Really trying to focus not on moving the weight but on contracting the muscles. This is the general set-up:

Monday – back, abs
Deadlift - 5 sets
Bent-over rows - 4 sets
Wide weighted pullups - 4 sets
Stiff-leg deadlifts - 3 sets
Seated rows - 3 sets
6-7 sets abs consisting of: slow decline weighted situps, DB oblique bends, ab wheel, decline side twists or whatever they are called
*looking for 6-10 reps for abs. I'm done with pointless sets of 200 crunches

Tuesday – chest, biceps
Flat Bench press - 4 sets
Dips - 4 sets
Incline press - 4 sets
Flies - 2 sets
9 sets curls: rotating between Incline curls, zottoman, hammer, EZ bar with varying grips, reverse
Wrist curls - 3 sets
*Rotate order of chest exercises and also between BB and DB. Sometimes do decline or incline flies as well

Wednesday – off

Thursday – Legs
Warm up with that hip machine to loosen up, 2 sets abductor and 2 sets adductor
Squat - 4 sets
Leg extension machine - 3 sets
Glue Ham Raises - 3 sets
Walking DB lunges - 3 sets
Seated calf raises - 4 sets
-Also either 2 sets squat jumps or 2 sets overhead squat

Friday – shoulders, triceps
Power cleans - 4 sets
Standing side raises - 4 sets
Standing front raises - 3 sets
Shoulder press - 3 sets
9 sets triceps: rotating between close-grip bench, skullcrushers, side salutes, tricep kickbacks, rope pulldown
Push press - 3 sets


I'm trying to do cardio 5 times a week. Monday, tuesday, wednesday, friday and once on the weekend. This gives me off days on my leg day and one weekend day where I have the whole day to relax and recuperate.

My legs are disproportionately smaller than my upper body so I am really trying to focus on them. Think with some fat loss my upper body will look pretty good but I need to add muscle to my legs.

[GoNoles99]

For today's PWO cardio I did 55 minutes of walking at an incline of 10. Varied between speeds of 3.5-4.1 mph. Did last 15 minutes at 4 mph. By the end I was dying, but extremely satisfying.

[GoNoles99]

re-did diet with macros.

[Twist]

Ok broski so I read some of the thread but you lost me on post #1... Idk what's up with all the "BB 1" and stuff like that. I'm sure I could decipher it if I try but I've just done 4 hours of Kickboxing so I'm gonna give my head a rest lol.

I don't like the food choices. In fact, I would almost redo the whole diet lol. You don't have to, but I wouldn't eat like that. First of all, your light in the muscle mass department and high in the fat department. It would help tremendously if you would post a pic but if not I'm gonna go with some assumptions. Just need a pic of now, not before, just wanna know what we're working with. It's possible to lose fat and gain muscle, actually easy at this point. GB gave some great suggestions on here. Take his advice on the aminos during the day and the carbs for sure. He actually turned me on to purple wraath and that stuff is solid. Gives me the worst gas so I can't take it anymore lol.

Answer me this:
Why are you 20% bf?
What do your parents look like and what do they eat (I want an idea of your genetics)?
What's your activity level?
I want to give arms its own day, are you good with that?

I wanna know why you are low bodyweight and high bf%. Are you eating mostly fats, carbs, or snacks? What's the deal. I don't know what you look like but I think you might be "high" in bf because you just don't have muscle mass. In that case we would attack this from a completely different angle than if you are skinny fat (prone to gaining fat, low muscle mass, just doesn't eat enough to get fat - closet meso maybe lol). Fill this in and I'll get back.

Nice touch with the blueberries pwo.

[GoNoles99]

BB was just short for before bed. If I am hungry at night I have the cottage cheese and peanut butter instead of a casein shake

I'll upload a pic later today once I'm off work. I know from my stats I sound like a weak fat kid but that's not what I am, I'd say I am decently built atm. As far as muscle mass I have enough to be cutting IMO, max bench is around 250 so I have some strength. I'll make sure to get that pix on here soon

As far as your other questions, parents are thin and i'd say my bf is up from eating dining hall food for the last two years

[GoNoles99]

on my lunch break so I had a chance to get some pics

front with no flexing



this time flexing arms/chest



double bi



back


I hovered around 175 pounds for the past 4 or so years. Recent weight loss due to healthier eating I suppose.

[Twist]

Bro look at my pics in my thread. You look almost exactly like my starting point (not really starting, took me three years to get there without knowing anything about diet and training).

Like I said bro, I would change most of your foods around. In my opinion you are not eating what you need to eat to get big. I count three logical meals, and I would change those too a little. If you want more help let me know. You could try your diet for a while and see how it goes or I can make some suggestions and go from there.

[GoNoles99]

Yea I'd love to hear your suggestions, I felt like I was just kind of throwing some things around, wasn't sure what to do with fats. I know my first meal is pretty weak but it's about the only way I can get food in me at that time of day. I work at 7am every day and as much as I try, I can't consistently get up and out of bed 45 minutes before that in time to make eggs and oatmeal.

I guess at the moment I'm not quite sure what direction I should be going. I'm about as thin as I've ever been so it is very tempting to try to get some ab definition, however I am a bit concerned at how much I weigh currently and would like to add some mass back. My arms used to be a good bit bigger and I've lost a lost of back strength as well, for instance I used to be able to do 5 good reps of deadhang pullups with a 60 pound DB between my knees, now I can barely do that with 20 pounds.

[GoNoles99]

Just got back from my shoulder/tricep day.

I dunno, when I started a month ago I was all excited about cutting but now I'm really having doubts. My triceps are incredibly weak right now, maybe as weak as they've been since I was freshman in high school. If you saw me doing skull crushers today you'd laugh. My concern with bulking though is that I'm afraid I will add too much bodyfat and while I'll be stronger I'll look like shit with flabby arms and no midsection.

[Twist]

2,500 cals to start, then up them accordingly to progress.

Breakfast
Hard boiled eggs - 6 or so
whole wheat bagel
1 banana
(all of this can be made in the same time it takes to make a protein shake - just boil a 5 dozen eggs and leave them in the fridge)

Meal 2
Chicken breast
broccoli or other veggie

Meal 3 - pre-workout
Chicken breast
sweet potato

PWO
Shake just like you have it, add vitamin-c

Meal 5
Fish
veggies
1 banana

Meal 6 - final meal
Steak
Fish oil
veggies

Supplements:
Multi-vitamin
Vitamin-c
Vitamin d-3
Fish oil
Amino acids (drink throughout the day)
Creatine
protein of course - I prefer ON Egg Protein

[Twist]

Monday – back, abs
Deadlift - 5 sets
Bent-over rows - 4 sets
Wide weighted pullups - 4 sets
Stiff-leg deadlifts - 3 sets drop these
Seated rows - 3 sets
6-7 sets abs consisting of: slow decline weighted situps, DB oblique bends, ab wheel, decline side twists or whatever they are called
*looking for 6-10 reps for abs. I'm done with pointless sets of 200 crunches
Not a fan of all this ab stuff. It's up to you though. Just make sure you don't get tight hip muscles.

Tuesday – chest, biceps
Flat Bench press - 4 sets
Dips - 4 sets
Incline press - 4 sets Drop incline press, replace with decline bench press
Flies - 2 sets
9 sets curls: rotating between Incline curls, zottoman, hammer, EZ bar with varying grips, reverse
Wrist curls - 3 sets
*Rotate order of chest exercises and also between BB and DB. Sometimes do decline or incline flies as well
use dumbells for 2 months then go back to barbell then go back to dumbell etc.
Give arms its own day

Wednesday – off

Thursday – Legs
Warm up with that hip machine to loosen up, 2 sets abductor and 2 sets adductor put just as much effort into these as you do to squats.
Squat - 5 sets
Leg press - 4 sets
Leg extension machine - 3 sets
Glue Ham Raises - 3 sets
Walking DB lunges - 3 sets omit for a month, then add back in
Seated calf raises - 4 sets do standing calf raises also. jump rope helps tremendously
-Also either 2 sets squat jumps or 2 sets overhead squatomit

Friday – shoulders, triceps
Power cleans - 4 sets
Standing side raises - 4 sets
Standing front raises - 3 sets
Shoulder press - 3 sets
9 sets triceps: rotating between close-grip bench, skullcrushers, side salutes, tricep kickbacks, rope pulldown
Push press - 3 sets
give arms its own day. behind the neck military press, go down to ear level, this should be light - 20 reps.

I'm trying to do cardio 5 times a week. Monday, tuesday, wednesday, friday and once on the weekend. This gives me off days on my leg day and one weekend day where I have the whole day to relax and recuperate.
Do cardio HIIT style for 20 minutes PWO. Once again, you should feel like vomiting.

My legs are disproportionately smaller than my upper body so I am really trying to focus on them. Think with some fat loss my upper body will look pretty good but I need to add muscle to my legs.
At this point it is not about fat loss at all. It's about staying the same but putting on muscle. I see no indication that you need to worry about fat. Straight up you look exactly like me 3 years ago. You don't have the intestinal problems I do so this will be a cakewalk and you will surpass me in probably 1-2 years.

You know how to set up a workout so I'll let you decide what you wanna do for arms. Preacher curl is IMO the best thing for building big biceps. 5 sets of that, each set should be so painful to get through that you feel like crying (literally). You should need a spotter for that also.

After each day you should stretch that muscle for at least 1 minute. the stretch should be so painful that it makes your workout feel like girly shit. For bench press, for example, you would lay down holding 30lb dumbells and open your arms up (like db flyes) and let the gravity pull your chest apart. Do this for one minute minimum.

Rep ranges should alternate. 1 month 16 reps, next month 12, next month 8, next month 5, go back to 16 at higher weight now (those are max numbers so its more like 14-16, 10-12 etc; you should fail at or before those numbers). Legs is the same just increase rep range by 4 reps so 16-20, 12-16, 8-12, 5-9 then repeat. You can do this cycle by months or by 2 weeks if you like.

[GoNoles99]

I like the suggestions. I can make your suggested diet work although I think I should mess around with the times as I work 7-3. I have lunch from 1130-1230, and a break from 915-945. So if I don't eat during the break I am going about 5 hours without eating so I figured I should eat something small during the break, even just a protein shake to keep myself in an anabolic state.

I can do arms in one day. Maybe something like
day 1 - back
day 2 - arms
day 3 - off
day 4 - legs
day 5 - chest, shoulders
day 6, 7 - off

Chest and shoulders on the same day seems like a lot to squeeze in though. I used to do arms on the same day but that was back when I was lifting 5 days a week. I'd be willing to lift 5 days/week again but I figured the extra day of rest was more important.

[Twist]

You can combine arms and shoulders. IMO shoulders is not a long day as all you need to work is medial delts (side of your shoulder) and the shoulder as a whole (presses). Rear delts and front delts get worked on chest and back days. Mess with the foods and make the macros add up to the correct amount. Protein shake is fine at that time if you want. Eating your macros is what counts. If you are hungry, eat protein and some carbs.

[GoNoles99]

alright. what kind of ratio am I looking for here? 40p/40c/20f?

[Twist]

Something like that. I would do more 45/40/15 or 40/45/15. Something like that.

[First6]

Looks like Twist has you all worked out. Listen to him. He wont lead you astray.
I am curious how you got your BF%. You look much lower to me. I would say 14% ish.
Good job so far. Keep going strong. Listen to Twist.

[GoNoles99]

I think I'll try 45/40/15 at first.

As far as the BF%, that was just a rough estimate. From what I'd seen from others I thought it was about right, I'd seen a few guys who were called ~15% on here who looked much leaner than me. When I use the electronic caliber at my gym it says I am 11% which is obviously not correct

[First6]

Gotcha. Yeah. 11 is off. You were playing it safe with 18 though. I would say 14. You really look pretty good I think. You should be able to bring out your abs pretty easy with Twist's help. He got me there and I started at almost 30%. (my avy is old - prob around 12-13 there...I forget). Remember though different people will look a little dif with the same bf%. A lot depends on the amount of muscle you have. I have very underdeveloped abs so it took a long time to see them. Then as soon as I slip on the diet they are gone. I have to be at 10 or so to see mine. Some guys have nice definition at 13. Point is use the numbers to mark progress but set your goal by "the look" you want to achieve. That picture in your head.

[GoNoles99]

Played around with some numbers. To reach 2,500 calories at a 45/40/15 split I'm looking for about
protein - 240g (960cal)
carbs - 210g (840cal)
fat - 80g (720cal)

Doing some supplement research now.

[Twist]

I would say at this point your bf is low, you just don't have the muscle to poke through. It will come for sure. Everytime I see your pics I swear I am looking in a mirror. Can't get over it.

[Twist]

Played around with some numbers. To reach 2,500 calories at a 45/40/15 split I'm looking for about
protein - 240g (960cal)
carbs - 210g (840cal)
fat - 80g (720cal)

Doing some supplement research now.

Looks solid to me. Post up your final diet when you get a chance.