Tips for Maximizing Clean Calorie Consumption While Bulking (Calorie Dense Foods etc)

[GZA]

I have struggled in the past with attempting to consume enough Calories (particularly Carbs because they take up the most Volume in my bulking diets)

I wan't to share what I have been considering/trying to help me consume more Calories and I would like to hear any feedback on if any of these ideas seem any good. As well, I would like to hear any ideas anyone else has had for this purpose.

The Good:
Shakes in general, I like to space them out, a couple a day (usually one post workout and one when I wake up to pee in the middle of the night) in order to help me boost my Calorie consumption with less hassle than eating in the traditional way. (of course nothing beats chewing "real food" the natural way but I find it very difficult to consume all my calories while bulking in that manner so I use shakes to help.

Another thing I do is blend them up real good (I have a blendtec blender but I imagine a Vitamix or anything else along those lines will do a good enough job for this purpose) and then send em down my makeshift "beer bong" to help make all the swallowing not as tedious, in a matter of seconds my shake is down
Chicken Breast, Oats, whatever I put em in there and it seems to blend them all nice enough to shoot down your throat easily provided there is enough water in your mix to make it "flow" well enough. I would use a word of caution though, I first attempted this technique with a $50 black and decker blender and blended me up some frozen vegetables along with some whey or something like that. I practically choked to death on the fibrous vegetables they got all caught in my throat and I had a few moments where I struggled to breathe so I never tried that again It took me years and a new blender to get up the nerve to try that again.
As far as cleanin up of the "beer bong" goes. I solved that by simplifying the unit to basically a 2 liter bottle with the bottom chopped off so that way the top of the bottle can be put in your mouth and you fill the "funnel/beer bong" from the bottom that is now chopped off. That way there is no valve or long tubing to clean up which I found a big hassle


I do have a few questions about this technique though.

I noticed that I do get the runs in particular I remember this occuring with a mixture of water Chicken and Oats. I do seem to gain fine like this but I need to be near a bathroom soon after drink one of these. So my question is:
are raw oats (I use the standard rolled quaker oat variety) particularly difficult to digest? I notice a lot of people use raw oats in their protien shakes so what gives?
Am I the only one with this problem? Should I be concerned about it or simply continue this practice as long as I feel getting the runs is worth consuming one of my meals in a matter of seconds?

I guess I could grind up cooked oats but there is so much more volume to grind up if I do that you know? it sort of defeats the purpose of tryign to reduce the volume of foods that I need to consume?

Also on that note, I have taken note that uncooked brown rice is also very calorie dense (in fact more calorie dense than uncooked oats. Is that safe to grind up and put in a shake?

Becuse when I put stuff down my 2 liter funnel I dont really care about taste, it all goes down so fast anyways, I'm manly more concerned with the fact that this beer bong system I got setup seems to give me the runs. Also I'd like to know if there is any health issues with consuming raw brown rice and or Oats, I have heard there are insects and such in uncooked grains but won't stomach acid take care of those?

Another thing I was considering was boosting my fat intake over my self imposed 20% limit (I usually use uncooked olive oil/flax seed oil etc for my fats along with any residual fats in the oats/meats that I eat) Fat is a lot more calorie dense than either Brown rice, Oats, or Yams so taking in a larger percentage of fats in order to reach my Calorie intake goals would make things easier as well. But I'm unsure if boosting to lets say 30% of my daily Caloric intake fats would ruin my lean muscle gains.

What do you guys think? (in particular about boosting my fats and or putting raw Oats and/or Brown rice in my shakes when bulking?

Any good ideas any of you have come up with that seem to work for you?
Because for me it's always a hassle when I go from cutting to bulking, my body takes weeks to adjust to the large volume of food and it's normal for me to not reach my caloric intake goals at first until my body adapts to eating so much, I find that really frustrating! What do you guys do??

[GZA]

Update:
I was searching around and I noticed that Whey concentrate (because of the lactose) and also protien powders containing sucralose can also cause the runs in some people
I dont recall using any in my mixture but now I'm not so sure, so I'm going to try a shake of just oats and chicken right now and see what happens It would be great if simply not using any protien powder and/or switching brands if I do solves that problem! I do remember long ago before I knew anything about bodybuilding almost living off of met-rx meal replacements (even though they say not to) for about a month. I don't remember ever getting the runs and actually I got pretty cut since a quick tally of calories meant I was only intaking about 1000-1500 calories a day (4-6 shakes). Haha, I don't recommend this of course, that was a mistake, I think I was even trying to gain weight at that point, silly me But yeah, if it's just the protien brand/powder type I know I can always switch to met-rx and not get the runs. Or even better, only use whole foods in my shakes except post workout Well, wish me luck so I dont get the runs this time

[GZA]

Well, I haven't actually got the runs but my stomach feels upset. I'm actually cutting at the moment so my body is probably more willing to obsorb more of my shake because of the caloric deficit I'm in (I counted it as a "Refeed") But my stomach is still feeling similar, I'd imagine If I was bulking at the moment I would have gotten the runs so maybe it's just the fact that I slam thing thing down so fast? One might think it's a food allergy but chicken and oats don't normally give me the runs when I'm eating them as solid foods... Maybe next I'll experiment with cooked grains and see if that does the same thing... Well anyways, off to bed

[cue_artist]

Wow dude !!!! You guys just seem to amaze me with ur crazy a$$ eating techniques !

[frank784]

How many calories a day are you trying to consume? I have never really heard of anyone doing what you are as it seems to be quite the extreme....what are your stats/goals?

As far as consuming raw oats. I personally go through a ton. I grind them up then mix them in with my whey and some 1% milk. Nice 650 calorie "shake" with getting most of your carbs from good food (I know the milk is not so great, but the oats are perfect).

[GZA]

It depends how much I weigh at the time, right now only 4000 calories a day since I'm hovering around 200 lbs. But that's as lean as I ever get (depending on the preference of whoever it is I'm dating). It's been a good 2-3 years since I dated someone who liked the big look over the whole model body type. However I've been as big as 270 while at least attempting to hit 6000 calories daily which I found almost impossible to do clean for me... right now my shakes hover around the same calorie content as yours, but yeah, even the one I took from last night, I'm noticing the effects from it even today and yeah, I do have the runs :/

[GZA]

oh and as far as stats/ goals I'm 6'2" which means 200 lbs looks fairly small on my frame, I need to weigh quite a bit to fill my frame out. 230 ish looks like your average gym type on my frame while I need to be over 250 before I feel "big". I imagine if I was shorter and 200 lbs looked "big" on me I wouldn't be as concerned with aiding my consumption of calories, personally. I plan to shoot for a lean 250 or so after cutting... over the span of a year or two

[frank784]

Do you happen to know your bf%....Of course 200 on a 5'6 frame is much different than a 6'2 frame, but if you are 6'2 200lbs at 8% I'm swould assume you wouldn't feel "small".

What do your macros look like from your 4000 cals? I am actually on a very similar diet. I am 6' 205 right now....eat 4000 and was doing roughly 500 carbs/350 protein/75 Fat. If I gain too quickly I adjust my carbs as I am trying to put on lean mass through my bulk....I haven't test in awhile, but I would say I'm maybe 13% bf...have abs, but still soft, but that's what a bulk is to mean....I'll worry about leaning up when its time to cut.

I do solid meals for as much as I can. I make my meals 2x a week and pre pack everything. Makes it a lot easier for me as I travel a lot and grabbing things on the road aren't a good solution for me personally.

What are you taking in for actual supplements? When i first started my bulk I was very gassy but bumped my water up and that seemed to help. Do you take any fiber? Flax seed oil, omega 3s, etc?

Best of luck with your goals.

[GZA]

I don't know it for certain but my estimate from a visual standpoint would be around 10%, of course I'm not "small" by the standards of the average population but relative to the more serious members here I would say that I am. Also, I think my perception of what is "big" or "small" has been somewhat skewed. I think that happens to a lot of people who train. I have been called "huge" by girls even at this weight and I find that sort of confusing because that's not what I see Plus I would consider this small for me because this is the smallest Iv'e ever let myself get for over 10 years... I usually hover around 230 when I'm not bulking.

Technically I'm not officially bulking yet, that won't be for another month
but my macros will be:
55 C 25 P 20F
at least that's what it is in my perliminary diet I have drawn up for when I do bulk, I might boost the fats a bit if I hear it's ok to help bring the carb level lower.

Essentialy what I did was calculate roughly 1 pound of protien per body weight (200 grams or 800 calories) and then I thoght I'd add a bit for good measure and boost it to around (250 grams or 1000 calories) so that way I am slightly over 1 gram per pound of body weight coming from protien (I think about 1.25 grams per pound) Many of the standard setups for macros I see(50 30 20 or 40 30 30) put protien at 30 or 40 percent, out of a 4000 calorie diet that would put me at either 300 or 400 grams of protien a day which I imagine would be pushing it in terms of digestion. Other than that I just added 20 percent fat which seems like a good percentage for fat and then I just made the rest out of carbs (60%)
(which comes to close to 4 pounds of rice per day (assuming that was my only carb source, it's not but let's say it was Oatmeal, then I'd have to eat even more pounds than that I imagine (if it's cooked). It just seems like so many pounds of food per day I wish I could reduce it

Compairing my Diet to yours it looks like you're at 50 35 16

I notice you are raising your protien to actually the 35 percent range which I didn't think I could do, raising my protien levels might help lower my volume of carbs, as long as if I raised my fat percentage to 30% (like they do in a 40 40 30 type diet)

in the end if I was able to raise my protien and fat high enough
I could reduce my carb volume by one third from 60% to 40%

I think I just remember hearing talk about how the human body would be really taxed to try to handle that many grams of protien but maybe it's the only way to make my meals more managable?

Well I've already established I can't stomach shakes very well, hopefully at least my body will be able to handle more protien as long as it's in solid form

I'm excited, it's worth a try!

Geez, now that I think of it, going from 250 grams of protien a day up to 400 will almost double my diet cost! (since protiens cost the most) But hey, if it does the job then it's money well spent

Oh as far as supplaments go, Right now I take around 100 mcg of T3 per day and a multivitamin, some electrolites (potassium magnesium) and bcaa's and glutamine during my morning run and weight routine.

I'm not currently doing a post workout insulin spike or taking in any whey or anything like that post workout, I save that for when I bulk because I feel like I'll ruin the whole point of running on an empty stomach in the morning as well as the whole 30 minute rest period after you work out withot eating anything. I'm hoping the bcaa's and glutamine do the job (as well as a low, trt type level dose of test)

Maybe I will give a 40 40 30 a try after double checking the forums to assauge my nagging doubt that that maybe 400 grams of protien per day is too much protien to ask my body to digest...

Once I start to bulk however I will add some sort of bulking cycle (to be decided) along with the post workout insulin/fast acting protien spike, drop the t3 most likely (unless my cycle calls for it depending on the gear I take and hmm let's see. Maybe even take some creatine for good measure since I haven't tried that for AGES and I hear that adding water to your muscle might help put your muscles in an anabolic state... I used to think creatine would just make your muscles temporarily bigger (while you take it) with water weight. But if it's possible the extra water actually helps grow muscle then sign me up But I haven't looked into that claim much so I'll research that a little before I decide to add in some Creatine...

and about your last question..
No, I don't take any fiber supplaments other than the Oats/brown rice I have to eat anyways and the occasional serving of vegetables, I never have a problem being regular or anything like that as long as I'm not taking in my shakes, It seems more like my body is "rejecting" it as food rather than it being a fiber thing. Perhaps if I drank these shakes in milk my body would consider the substance I'm drinking more "food like", that's worth a try as well. But I do take flax seed oil and olive oil as part of my fat intake (basically any fat grams that I dont get from my meat and grain sources I supplement with oils like this. I get a syringe and measure out my ml of Oil to put in per meal and violla...

[frank784]

What is your cycle history, training history, age, etc for starting another cycle of steroids? I know we are in the diet section, but if plan to take steroids I would hope that you have your cycle laid out properly along with your PCT. The general forum seems to have a lot of members there that can help with this.

If you have been up to 270 before I'm sure you know your body and what works for your.....assuming you weren't a BIG 270 and were carrying 30% bf. I know that if I don't gain 1lb per week naturally when bulking then my diet isn't on point and I have to make some adjustments...same thing goes if I'm gaining too much....I have had some trial and error, but seems to be dialed in now.

I might have missed it, but what is your final goal? Did you want to get to 220 10%, 250 etc?

Again, best of luck. I am a firm believer that diet is 80% of results so I hope yours works for you. Being 200 at 10% and bulking while staying lean....I would lower the fats for sure, but that's just my opinion.

[GZA]

It's interesting, I hear so many contradictory things and theories, I remember hearing that higher fats were no problem from one "expert" and I also remember hearing that lower fat levels were better from another. But yes, maybe I will lower my fats and just up my protien (and lower my carbs to around 50% , from the looks of things most people seem to agree that I should be taking in more, technically, assuming I'm at 10% I am at 180 lbm which would put me at 1.388 grams of protien per pound of lbm... with my prior plan for my bulking macros... I hear 1.5 is the minimum (as far as consensus goes) so yeah, I'll definately up that, most probably to 2 grams per pound of lbm. It's interesting that I've never had any problems in the past gaining muscle with less protien... now as far as cycle history goes, well I've been visiting this place for probably about 8 years, but I didn't actually make a profile until about 6 years ago (when I turned 25 and finally decided I was ready to take gear) So I spent a good couple years simply researching gear, reading stickys etc. before ever starting. You'll notice I don't post often but that doesn't mean I haven't spent years reading and taking in data. I don't really have any questions related to PCT or laying out a cycle properly, I've been taking gear off an on for over 6 years now and do have some idea what I'm doing. Yes I agree diet is almost everything, I actually have no problems gaining or loosing weight pretty much at will, truly the only problem I seem to have nowadays is the hassle and uncomfort of drastically changing my eating habbits when I change from cutting to bulking. I never said that when I do what I do it doesn't work for me, because it does. Simply put, I have probably read thousands of articles relating to this stuff, just like many of the self proclaimed "experts" here. I may sound like I dont know much from how I conduct myself (because I don't act like a know it all) But I do this because, admittingly there is no unviersally accepted opinion on many things in the bodybuilding world. I'm not going to blindly assert only one way is better when truthfully there is very little rigorous scientific evidence backing up let's say "this macro vs. that or exactly how much protien consumption is optimal etc... You'll hear one thing by one "expert" and then hear it contradicted completely by another "expert". Truthfully, until all the specific variations in how to go about this are put to countless, body builder specific scientific tests as it relates to maximizing results then we are all guessing, relying on "tradition" and/or following an individual persons "story" and or past experiences. and when you think about it, before we put much of what passed as medicine 100 years ago to a scientific test there were countless "remedies" of no real value that has plenty of people who swore by them. I suspect this is likely what has happened with bodybuilding as well, there are a lot of tried and true opinions but very little scientific data that proves one method over the other. So for me all of these opinions and guesses based on individual past experience and conjecture can only go so far as it relates to truly uncovering the best method to go about bodybuilding becasue there have been very little well designed studies truly done for the bodybuilder in mind. From what I've seen, most scientific studies relating to muscle building are very limited in scope and nature and only vaugely can relate to what body builders do specifically. Which of course explains why you can have all sorts of "experts" who've spent virtually their whole lives studying this subject whom have vastly different opinions on the best way to go about things when it comes to all the details and specifics. Of course when it comes to the basics most people can agree and that's what I think gives most people the results they get. Personally, I'll try whatever and see if it works for me as long as it makes some sort of sence the reasoning behind why one particular method might be better. Although I may have researched long and hard enough to start acting like an "expert" on this forum I really don't because I know that nobody can truly say they know what's truly the best method as it relates to almost anything but the basics. But yes, I have heard many of the various opinions of various experts and sometimes I try it, sometimes I hear another expert say the opposite and I try that as well.

For one specific example I used to lift as heavy as possible and do more of a high intensity training type routine because it made sense to me that the stronger I was the bigger I'd be.......

I did that for years until I realized that for me I can get better results with a little less weight and more repititions although that seemed counterintuitive at the time
I guess it turns out that the "sweet spot" to maximize hypertrophy was reaching failure (for lets say bench) when reaching around 10 reps rather than 6-8. apparently it turns out that it requires a larger muscle for me to lift lighter weights more times than to lift heavier weights less, but I didn't know it until I tried it.

However, there are many experts, even bodybuilders who would tell you to maximize the weight at all costs. Maybe it works for them but simply because they run into somebody who disagrees doesn't make them somehow lack knowledge unless there is a scientific basis that can prove one opinion is truly superior.

So in other words, I'm open to trying whatever, not because I'm uninformed but because I realize that my goal is to take in all opinions and absorb what is useful for me to achieve my goals. As far as my goal, eventually I wanted to get to 250 at 10 or so percent, so yes, there will be lots of bulking involved.

But yes, a shift in macros might help, thanks for input

[frank784]

Good to hear that you have done your homework. There are so many people on here that start their cycles too early or throw too much in their first cycle...I was actually one of them....diet wasn't great at the time either, so I jumped off after some additional reading. I truly found out how important diet was and it make the difference in everything I do in and outside of the gym.

I'm with you as there really isn't a "brand standard" for diet. Everyone is different with diet and some are better with higher carbs vs others who get soft by eating too many carbs. There is trial and error associated which is why it's so important to really know what you're eating on a daily basis.

250 at 10%....I'm sure not many people will call you small then.

Best of luck.

[GZA]

Best of luck to you as well