LH and FSH!

[bass]

i been ignoring these two hormones and don't know anything about them, but been reading others posting about them and still didn't pay attention because my clinic didn't say anything about them! a couple of months ago i did blood work and my levels were very low,

LH, 0.2 (1.7-8.6)
FSH, 0.2 (1.5-12.4)

do i need to be concerned about this or this is normal while on TRT, and is there anything i can do to normalize these hormones? Thanks!

[zaggahamma]

those numbers will be super low now that you are taking exogeneous test....they are signals by your own body (pituitary and testes) to produce test....they shut down when they sense the test your sticking into your body...

[bass]

i see! will hCG help in this case? also does this mean all who are on TRT will have similar numbers?

[steroid.com 1]

i see! will hCG help in this case? also does this mean all who are on TRT will have similar numbers?

No Bass it won't. Your Pituitary is shut down that's why your numbers are almost non-existent. What HCG does is replace the LH that's not being produced anymore so your body can function correctly.

And yes, all men on TRT who are shut down are in the same boat. Without HCG during TRT it's almost impossible to restart again...although in some cases it can be done but it's rare. On HCG during TRT re-starting has a much better chance.

[kelkel]

My numbers were similar in August, 0.1 & 0.2 and I know my pituitary is shut down due to a tumor. So, GD does this mean it's kinda useless for me with HCG as I'm never re-starting, or is it still worthwhile to replace the LH?

[steroid.com 1]

My numbers were similar in August, 0.1 & 0.2 and I know my pituitary is shut down due to a tumor. So, GD does this mean it's kinda useless for me with HCG as I'm never re-starting, or is it still worthwhile to replace the LH?

In my opinion there are a ton of reasons for using HCG. Things like aching and atrophying testicles turning into useless globs of collagen doesn't appeal to me. Also, your sack is going to get so tight you will look like you're 5 years old again...that's not a pretty picture if you know what I mean.

More importantly, you need to understand the impact HCG has on keeping your testicles operating normally and the production of Pregnenolone and Progesterone all of what you need for many many reasons.

Read John Crisler's paper on HCG...you'll understand.

[GotNoBlueMilk]

What HCG does is replace the LH that's not being produced anymore so your body can function correctly.

bass: Keep in mind that the HCG is not a true LH and won't show up in your LH blood tests. It mimics LH in the sense that your leydig cells think it is LH and act accordingly.

[kelkel]

Thanks X 3. Starting to look like my 9 yr olds now.....rather disappointing.

[bass]

thanks guys for the responses! now i have a better understanding of these numbers! BTW, my sack is back! of course the boys are still small but they seem to have life in them! time will tell!

[bass]

My numbers were similar in August, 0.1 & 0.2 and I know my pituitary is shut down due to a tumor. So, GD does this mean it's kinda useless for me with HCG as I'm never re-starting, or is it still worthwhile to replace the LH?

sorry to hear about the tumor! is it benign or something to worry about? and is it the result of being on TRT?

[steroid.com 1]

my sack is back!

LMAO! Bass, you should make this your signature line!

Honestly, your boys will come back...take a bit of time. Plus. you're going to feel a lot better overall.

Good for you man!

[bass]

thanks bro! i am actually feeling much better probably due to hCG and the one pint of blood i drew myself! i did blood work this morning, so in few days I'll know what my new levels are!

[bass]

LMAO! Bass, you should make this your signature line!

Honestly, your boys will come back...take a bit of time. Plus. you're going to feel a lot better overall.

Good for you man!

i may do that! LOL!

[kelkel]

Nah Bass, nothing to really worry about unless it grows. It's a microadenoma in the pituitary. Apparently pretty common and a lot of people just don't realize they have them. It seems a lot of people just attribute it to age, etc when if they were in tune physically and see a doc regularly they could discover/treat it. I have regular physicals and have been into fitness all my life. BW suddenly revealed my T was at 59. Doc said see and endo and get a brain scan as you may have a tumor (really lovely to hear btw). Drove my ass right to the walk-in MRI facility near me but was too late on a Friday. Had to wait till Monday which really made for a relaxing weekend. Results not in until Wednesday which were positive for a small one with no need to operate at this time. It's just shut me down totally. Now just trying to normalize and deal w all the issues I read about here and find knowledgeable doc. Lot of mood swings lately, some lethargy, etc. Curious about E but doc so far says it's a non issue! Next appt he either agrees to check it and issue hcg or I'm off to new doc.

[Dragon666]

So...

You plan on running HCG constantly while on TRT for the rest of your life? I'm not following the logic here other than making sure your sack doesn't shrivel up... is it to maintain hope that one day your nuts will start producing test again on their own ...er what.

[steroid.com 1]

So...

You plan on running HCG constantly while on TRT for the rest of your life? I'm not following the logic here other than making sure your sack doesn't shrivel up... is it to maintain hope that one day your nuts will start producing test again on their own ...er what.

Read this: http://www.allthingsmale.com/word_docs/HCGupdate.doc

[Dragon666]

^^ Here is that doc, good read no doubt


AN UPDATE TO THE CRISLER HCG PROTOCOL

By John Crisler, DO



In my paper “My Current Best Thoughts on How to Administer TRT for Men”, published in A4M’s 2004/5 Anti-Aging Clinical Protocols, I introduced a new protocol where small doses of Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin (HCG) are regularly added to traditional TRT (either weekly IM testosterone cypionate or daily cream/gel). The reasons and benefits of this protocol are as follows, along with a new improvement I wish to share:

Any physician who administers TRT will, within the first few months of doing so, field complaints from their patients because they are now experiencing troubling testicular atrophy. Irrespective of the numerous and abundant benefits of TRT, men never enjoy seeing their genitals shrinking! Testicular atrophy occurs because the depressed LH level, secondary to the HPTA suppression TRT induces, no longer supports them. It is well known that HCG—a Luteinizing Hormone (LH) analog—will effectively, and dramatically, restore the testicles to previous form and function. It accomplishes this due to shared moiety between the alpha subunits of both hormones.

So, that satisfies an aesthetic consideration which should not be ignored. Now let’s delve into the pharmacodynamics of the TRT medications. For those employing injectable
testosterone cypionate, the cypionate ester provides a 5-8 day half-life, depending upon the specific metabolism, activity level, and overall health of the patient. It is now well-established that appropriate TRT using IM injections must be dosed at weekly intervals, in order to avoid seating the patient on a hormonal, and emotional, roller coaster. Adding in some HCG toward the end of the weekly “cycle” compensates for the drop in serum androgen levels by the half-life of the cypionate ester. Certainly the body thrives on regularity, and supplementing the TRT with endogenous testosterone production at just the right time—without inappropriately raising androgen OR estrogen (more on that later)—approximates the excellent performance stability of transdermal testosterone delivery systems for those who, for whatever reason or reasons, prefer test cyp.

But there’s another metabolic reason to employ this protocol. The P450 Side Chain Cleavage enzyme, which converts CHOL into pregnenolone at the initiation of all three metabolic pathways CHOL serves as precursor (the sex hormones, glucocorticoids and mineralcorticoids), is actively stimulated, or depressed, by LH concentrations. It is intuitively consistent that during conditions of lowered testosterone levels, commensurate increases in LH production would serve to stimulate this conversion from CHOL into these pathways, thereby feeding more raw material for increased hormone production. And vice versa. Thus the addition of HCG (which also stimulates the P450scc enzyme) helps restore a more natural balance of the hormones within this pathway in patients who are entirely, or even partially, HPTA-suppressed.

It is important that no more than 500IU of HCG be administered on any given day. There is only just so much stimulation possible, and exceeding that not only is wasteful, doing so has important negative consequences. Higher doses overly stimulate testicular aromatase, which inappropriately raises estrogen levels, and brings on the detrimental effects of same. It also causes Leydig cell desentization to LH, and we are therefore inducing primary hypogonadism while perhaps treating secondary hypogonadism. 250IU QD is an effective, and safe, dose. After all, we are merely replacing that which is lost to inhibition.

In my previous report I recommended 250IU of HCG twice per week for all TRT patients, taken the day of, along with the day before, the weekly test cyp injection. After looking at countless lab printouts, listening to subjective reports from patients, and learning more about HCG, I am now shifting that regimen forward one day. In other words, my test cyp TRT patients now take their HCG at 250IU two days before, as well as the day immediately previous to, their IM shot. All administer their HCG subcutaneously, and dosage may be adjusted as necessary (I have yet to see more than 350IU per dose required).

I made this change after realizing that the previous HCG protocol was boosting serum testosterone levels too much, as the test cyp serum concentrations rise, approaching its peak at roughly the 72 hour mark. The original goal of supporting serum androgen levels with HCG had overshot its mark.

Those TRT patients who prefer a transdermal testosterone, or even testosterone pellets (although I am not in favor of same), take their HCG every third day. They needn’t concern themselves with diminishing serum androgen levels from their testosterone delivery system. These patients will, of course, notice an increase in serum androgen levels above baseline.

While HCG, as sole TRT, is still considered treatment of choice for hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism by many , my experience is that it just does not bring the same subjective benefits as pure testosterone delivery systems do—even when similar serum androgen levels are produced from comparable baseline values. However, supplementing the more “traditional” TRT of transdermal, or injected, testosterone with HCG stabilizes serum levels, prevents testicular atrophy, helps rebalance expression of other hormones, and brings reports of greatly increased sense of well-being and libido. My patients absolutely love it. As time goes on, we are coming to appreciate HCG as a much more powerful--and wonderful--hormone than previously given credit.