1st time user, help appreciated

[Paulbber]

Hey everyone. My name is Paul and I am a 20 year old male. I have been working out seriously for 3 years and have made some good gains. I have been thinking about running a cycle and I dont want to do anything until I am ready and have gathered enough knowledge. I have only done google searches and found out that avavar, nandrolone, primo would probably be my best bet. I want to keep the side effects low, never had acne and dont want it either lol. I have read a few articles on this site, and now it seems I should run Test only as my first cycle. I am really unimformed and would really appreciate any help. I bet you guys get alot of threads with young kids that want to juice, sorry if this thread comes accross like that, I just feel I am ready to take my bodybuilding journey to the next level. Thanks

-Paul

Stats:
6'1, 185
10%ish bf

Supps: myofusion, Vit C, B complex, creatine, bcaa

[borkach]

you are too young, wait another 4-5 years. for now, Diet section is your next level of bodybuilding!

[Paulbber]

you are too young, wait another 4-5 years. for now, Diet section is your next level of bodybuilding!

20 is too young for a test only cycle?

[borkach]

test is still a steroid...read this

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...***-(GOOD-READ)

[stpete]

Get yourself a well proportioned diet in place to help achieve your goals. And use those natural hormones. Mixing in any AAS at your age could possibly affect your HPTA for the rest of your life. And you don't want that.
Good luck.

[SlimmerMe]

The best way to take your bodybuilding to the next level would be to come on over to the Diet Question forum where the members will get your food down to a science. Your best chemical now is food. Take advantage of your TONS of HORMONES you have now. Put them to use. Build a fantastic foundation. That is how the guys who look great do it. They create a strong base first. They count every morsel of food. They eat power food.

Plus sleep is crucial. Sleep is when you grow. So try to get to bed early so you get the most growth hormone production you possibly can while you are still growing.

See ya in the diet forum~

[gjames2012]

you are probably too young honestly. but the point of the forumn is to keep people informed and safe. so here it is. you need to do alot of research and really should wait. but if set and taking no for an answer then do only a test e cycle at 500 mg a week so nothing is really messing with your young hormone production permanently. use and anti i and an ai and you better know what those are!!!!!!! run a clean and good diet and weight program throughout and be safe. diet is key. go to diet section or look at nutrition articles. you need to get calories in check and get things right before you even think about doing this. again i agreew ith everyone and think you are too young and should reconsider since a good diet and weight program will do wonders for you but if you do it regardless this will keep you safe ainstead of sending you in blind to be another statistic. good luck

[songdog]

Besides being to young.Being 6' 1 and only 185 you can do much better than that nat.Hit the diet section bro.They will show you how to pack it on.

[SlimmerMe]

you are probably too young honestly. but the point of the forumn is to keep people informed and safe. so here it is. you need to do alot of research and really should wait. but if set and taking no for an answer then do only a test e cycle at 500 mg a week so nothing is really messing with your young hormone production permanently. use and anti i and an ai and you better know what those are!!!!!!! run a clean and good diet and weight program throughout and be safe. diet is key. go to diet section and look at nutrition articles. you need to get calories in check and get things right before you even think about doing this. again i agreew ith everyone and think you are too young and should reconsider since a good diet and weight program will do wonders for you but if you do it regardless this will keep you safe ainstead of sending you in blind to be another statistic. good luck

gjames2012: THIS BOARD DOES NOT ADVISE 20 year olds to cycle. I know you think you are helping him out. Please do not suggest a protocol assuming OP will do it anyway. Believe it or not, many finally hear why they should not cycle and stay away from cycling.

Thanks.

[Paulbber]

gjames2012: THIS BOARD DOES NOT ADVISE 20 year olds to cycle. I know you think you are helping him out. Please do not suggest a protocol assuming OP will do it anyway. Believe it or not, many finally hear why they should not cycle and stay away from cycling.

Thanks.

I understand what the other members are saying when 20 is too young. I really wanted to cycle this winter, maybe Ill wait a few years, but on the main page, under novice cycles I, they suggest being atleast 18.

[gjames2012]

SLIMMER ME. I am quite sure told him it was a bad idea and he shouldnt do it. And nowhere in the post did i ever advise him to do it or hint that he should. I just simply stated facts and train 20y.o client all the time and know how well they respond to no you cant do it. it doesnt happen. so like I said i would rather educate someone regardless of age or opinions even though again its too young like i said than let them abuse or end up dead because people refused to guide because of there own beliefs on a board enforcing the no 20 and under rule while the main to do cycle list tells them that if they are 18 they are safe and good to go. I understand the rules and goals and agreew ith them but stand by my statements and believe i did no harm and if anything hopefully made him realize he is too young or at least prevented him from killing himself. respectfully replied

[SlimmerMe]

you are probably too young honestly. but the point of the forumn is to keep people informed and safe. so here it is. you need to do alot of research and really should wait. but if set and taking no for an answer then do only a test e cycle at 500 mg a week so nothing is really messing with your young hormone production permanently. use and anti i and an ai and you better know what those are!!!!!!! run a clean and good diet and weight program throughout and be safe. diet is key. go to diet section and look at nutrition articles. you need to get calories in check and get things right before you even think about doing this. again i agreew ith everyone and think you are too young and should reconsider since a good diet and weight program will do wonders for you but if you do it regardless this will keep you safe ainstead of sending you in blind to be another statistic. good luck

BOLD....looks like suggesting a plan to OP who is 20 and should not be using steroids PERIOD! ...

[Paulbber]

BOLD....looks like suggesting a plan to OP who is 20 and should not be using steroids PERIOD! ...

he was only letting me what to do if i take no for an answer. If i didnt take everyones advice on not taking test, atleast i know what to do so i really dont hurt myself like he said. I asked for advice and info, and he helped me with that

-Paul

[Colton]

Listen to the guys telling you you are too young and not to do it man. I wish I would of been smarter like you and consulted with these guys BEFORE I started and not during. I'm only 19 and I'm having to stop midway through a cycle I've been on out of worry and concern for my my own well being. You don't want to mess up your hpta and be ****ed for life. Im just praying I didn't permanently screw my body up. These guys know what they are talking about so listen to them when they say DONT DO IT.

[AstheticKing]

these answers must frustrate u but they are sarcastic versions of whats really in your best interest

maximize ur natty test levels and use cell volumizers simultaneously

if u want a big schpieel on how to maximize ur natty test levels u can ask me i dont bridge in between cycles i make sure my natty test levels are ridiculously high and i have done blood work on myself when doing it and it really does work better than a AAS bridge...what this means to u is ur levels can be HIGHER with te same STRAGTEGY not IMPATIENCE(wait 2 mre years but if u must cycle do test only with a VERY STRONG PCT)

[FuzzyPeaches o.O]

you are probably too young honestly. but the point of the forumn is to keep people informed and safe. so here it is. you need to do alot of research and really should wait. but if set and taking no for an answer then do only a test e cycle at 500 mg a week so nothing is really messing with your young hormone production permanently. use and anti i and an ai and you better know what those are!!!!!!! run a clean and good diet and weight program throughout and be safe. diet is key. go to diet section or look at nutrition articles. you need to get calories in check and get things right before you even think about doing this. again i agreew ith everyone and think you are too young and should reconsider since a good diet and weight program will do wonders for you but if you do it regardless this will keep you safe ainstead of sending you in blind to be another statistic. good luck

You clearly are not worthy of giving advice. A single cycle of test only at his age can have irreversable affects on his hormone production.

[SlimmerMe]

these answers must frustrate u but they are sarcastic versions of whats really in your best interest

maximize ur natty test levels and use cell volumizers simultaneously

if u want a big schpieel on how to maximize ur natty test levels u can ask me i dont bridge in between cycles i make sure my natty test levels are ridiculously high and i have done blood work on myself when doing it and it really does work better than a AAS bridge...what this means to u is ur levels can be HIGHER with te same STRAGTEGY not IMPATIENCE(wait 2 mre years but if u must cycle do test only with a VERY STRONG PCT)

Again: PLEASE DO NOT ADVISE WITH A PROTOCOL. He will end up hearing what he wants to hear with this kind of post.
Someone who is 20 needs to learn this:

EAT RIGHT
GO TO BED EARLY
TRAIN CORRECTLY
STAY AWAY FROM STEROIDS
YOU ARE STILL GROWING SO YOU CAN MESS UP YOUR ENDOCRINE SYSTEM BY RELYING ON SYNTHETIC TEST AND WHEN THIS HAPPENS YOUR NATURAL TEST PRODUCTION IS SUPPRESSED AND YOU WILL GET ED AND THEN END UP IN THE OVER 40 FORUM SOONER THAN LATER~

[Paulbber]

these answers must frustrate u but they are sarcastic versions of whats really in your best interest

maximize ur natty test levels and use cell volumizers simultaneously

if u want a big schpieel on how to maximize ur natty test levels u can ask me i dont bridge in between cycles i make sure my natty test levels are ridiculously high and i have done blood work on myself when doing it and it really does work better than a AAS bridge...what this means to u is ur levels can be HIGHER with te same STRAGTEGY not IMPATIENCE(wait 2 mre years but if u must cycle do test only with a VERY STRONG PCT)

yeah they really do lol. but yea i think ill wait a few years. so how can I maximize my natural test levels?

test boosters seem like broscience

[gjames2012]

this teste e cycle would be completely reversable on the pct and would return to normal upon completion. a.k.a no permanent hormone problems. i have seen and know some teens on them and have had no problems and am friends with people in there thirties who started when 15 and have blood work and checkups constantly and are perfectly healthy and never had any problems what soever. i offer advice on experience and seeing is believeing facts not what someone says or i think it should be. so unless you can show me an article or study that you produced so you are sure of this claim you make and can support it without the usual after school special garbage then ide be happy to see it. otherwise lets tone down the stupid myths. oh yeah and so did arnold at 15 y.o and won first universe at 19!!!!!!!! and look at him. he is so decrepid right!!!!!!! didnt think so.

You clearly are not worthy of giving advice. A single cycle of test only at his age can have irreversable affects on his hormone production.

[SlimmerMe]

this teste e cycle would be completely reversable on the pct and would return to normal upon completion. A.k.a no permanent hormone problems. I have seen and know some teens on them and have had no problems and am friends with people in there thirties who started when 15 and have blood work and checkups constantly and are perfectly healthy and never had any problems what soever. I offer advice on experience and seeing is believeing facts not what someone says or i think it should be. So unless you can show me an article or study that you produced so you are sure of this claim you make and can support it without the usual after school special garbage then ide be happy to see it. Otherwise lets tone down the stupid myths. Oh yeah and so did arnold at 15 y.o and won first universe at 19!!!!!!!! And look at him. He is so decrepid right!!!!!!! Didnt think so.

This kind of advice/thinking is not necessary nor wanted here on this board~ PLEASE STOP.
OP IS 20.

[FuzzyPeaches o.O]

this teste e cycle would be completely reversable on the pct and would return to normal upon completion. a.k.a no permanent hormone problems. i have seen and know some teens on them and have had no problems and am friends with people in there thirties who started when 15 and have blood work and checkups constantly and are perfectly healthy and never had any problems what soever. i offer advice on experience and seeing is believeing facts not what someone says or i think it should be. so unless you can show me an article or study that you produced so you are sure of this claim you make and can support it without the usual after school special garbage then ide be happy to see it. otherwise lets tone down the stupid myths. oh yeah and so did arnold at 15 y.o and won first universe at 19!!!!!!!! and look at him. he is so decrepid right!!!!!!! didnt think so.

You make me laugh!! This is your proof?!? I have seen this, I know those guys.. LOL forgive me for laughing in your face!

[gjames2012]

You make me laugh!! This is your proof?!? I have seen this, I know those guys.. LOL forgive me for laughing in your face!

i am done on this thread in respect to slimmer me mod and the 20 y.o because it is being made to look like i am supporting him or condoning it but i am not. i am just seeing facts and as far as me seeing it fuzzy peaches as you call yourself! seriously!!!??? i am a certified trainer and two of my close and personal friends started as teens and one is a known fitness modela nd oanother just got a contract with muscle ink for sponsor of clothing and new line os energy drinks they will be launching. so i do not have to justify or know what to tell you except if you were in my area ide take you to my gym and show you guy after guy of proof that i will 100 percent guarentee we both wish we could look like someday. laugh all you want my clients and certifications as well as designed diet plans that have won contests say more than your "opinion" ever will.

[FuzzyPeaches o.O]

i am done on this thread in respect to slimmer me mod and the 20 y.o because it is being made to look like i am supporting him or condoning it but i am not. i am just seeing facts and as far as me seeing it fuzzy peaches as you call yourself! seriously!!!??? i am a certified trainer and two of my close and personal friends started as teens and one is a known fitness modela nd oanother just got a contract with muscle ink for sponsor of clothing and new line os energy drinks they will be launching. so i do not have to justify or know what to tell you except if you were in my area ide take you to my gym and show you guy after guy of proof that i will 100 percent guarentee we both wish we could look like someday. laugh all you want my clients and certifications as well as designed diet plans that have won contests say more than your "opinion" ever will.

Gjames I have nothing against you, really. The truth is that you cannot produce one scientific study or any type of medical documentation to support your “claims”. There have been numerous studies on the effects of AAS use in young men and the harm it can cause. Do you need me to list them? There are tons of threads on THIS very board to support my statements, where are yours?

Congratulations on quoting other peoples success I’m sure they are proud! Your certifications in personal training do NOT make you qualified in any way to give advice on this matter, just like I stated in my 1st thread on this topic. In the end you want to talk about my build? I’ll just leave this one be because you clearly, AGAIN, are clueless!

[gjames2012]

as stated i am done on this thread. ive caught enough heat from mods and made to look like im someoen trying to get teens on steroids and i am not. i dont know about your build, i cannot view your profile yet. i was just curious on what kind of experience you were coming off. as far as threads and studies. aas is illegal and cannot be studied or proven scientifically here in u.s . everything is based on opinion and what they "believe" it does. im just saying that i have seen and do see every day the reults and know the outcomes on several cases. again i believe paul is too young as is any teen. i do not give or administer them to any teen or anyone that age. and would not. but UNFORTUNATLY roids are running rampant through the local gym teens and high school sports here. as far as these documents you speak of they too are bull. who can would or did allow steroids to be administered to teens to study the affects and publish them????? nobody. again as with 99.9 percent of aas studies and claims they are not scientific and study group based but opinion and thought based.

Gjames I have nothing against you, really. The truth is that you cannot produce one scientific study or any type of medical documentation to support your “claims”. There have been numerous studies on the effects of AAS use in young men and the harm it can cause. Do you need me to list them? There are tons of threads on THIS very board to support my statements, where are yours?

Congratulations on quoting other peoples success I’m sure they are proud! Your certifications in personal training do NOT make you qualified in any way to give advice on this matter, just like I stated in my 1st thread on this topic. In the end you want to talk about my build? I’ll just leave this one be because you clearly, AGAIN, are clueless!

[Phate]

this teste e cycle would be completely reversable on the pct and would return to normal upon completion. a.k.a no permanent hormone problems.Incorrect, the Hypothalamic-Pituitary Testicular Axis Functions on a negative feedback loop, and not only regulates steroidal hormones but also metabolic, sleep, growth, cardiovascular, sympathetic/parasympathetic, and many other types as well. Here's a breakdown of what happens when you inject testosterone(massively simplified): After the initial injection, blood serum testosterone levels(BSTLs) increase activating the negative feedback loop. This in turn causes production of Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone(GnRH) from the Hypothalamus, this in turn causes an inversely proportional decrease in Leutinizing Hormone and Follicle Stimulating Hormone from the Pituitary Gland. Leutinizing Hormone stimulating leydig cells in the testis to produce testosterone while FSH causes spermatogenesis(sperm production) in the sertoli cells and semeniferous tubules. The decrease of these two hormones due to the testosterone spike is what causes testicular atrophy(shrinking of the testis). But here's what most people don't realize. Our bodies are made to survive and be efficient, therefore, organs that aren't needed first atrophy, then can be broken down for energy or shut down completely, as the body sees them as vestigial(having no purpose). This in NOT reversible after a certain point. i have seen and know some teens on them and have had no problems and am friends with people in there thirties who started when 15 and have blood work and checkups constantly and are perfectly healthy and never had any problems what soever.While this anecdotal evidence may seem conclusive, it does NOT apply to the OP, as he undoubtedly isn't the person(s) you are referring to and thus could just as easily have a different outcome. Also, as he is 20 and at a good height, it is uncertain whether he is done growing. Did your friends have gadolinium contrasted MRIs to assess the current stage of their epiphyseal plates? If they didn't then they could have stopped themselves from growing prematurely which affects many other hormone related issues aside from just height. i offer advice on experience and seeing is believeing facts not what someone says or i think it should be.Sorry, but evidence beats experience in this case every time, because you cannot see the changes that are actually occurring in the body, nor determine the side effects, sometimes for decades to come. so unless you can show me an article or study that you producedobviously we haven't done the studies ourselves so you are sure of this claim you make and can support it without the usual after school special garbage then ide be happy to see it.Actually i can supply you with the names of several textbooks, medical journals, studies, etc... that will say exactly what we have been saying, but this isn't a pissing contest, but to start, do read up on HPTA fuction related to anabolic/androgenic steroid use, it's a good start otherwise lets tone down the stupid myths. oh yeah and so did arnold at 15 y.o and won first universe at 19!!!!!!!! and look at him. he is so decrepid right!!!!!!! didnt think so.Actually yes, while his outer shell looks mildly healthy his body is actually pretty wrecked hormonally, and contrary to the myths, he didn't use anywhere near the levels that most people in this generation did.

To start, I have no problems with anyone on this board, but here is an objective scientific breakdown of what was said here and the errors therein.

[gjames2012]

i hear you to phate and respect the article. but this neither was an actual administered study on someone. i too believe they could be bad for someone to young and shouldnt be given anyways. im just simply stating that i know people for a fact! not opinion or doctor thought based that are in there thirties now and took them as teens and have blood work and other checkups on body numbers regularly and are perfectly healthy. and to my knowledge noone has ever done a full study on actual people from any age to prove 100 percent what it does and doesnt do. as with anything in life its probably based solely on the person and whether or not they abuse them. there are tons of pro bodybuilders that are in ther 80s and many more that have died in late age due to old age and just that. and they were on there whole lives back when noone had any idea or sides and usually abused them

To start, I have no problems with anyone on this board, but here is an objective scientific breakdown of what was said here and the errors therein.

[gjames2012]

as stated i am done here anyways. this thread is going nowhere and im new so i dont want to offend any mods or get a bad rep because its being made to come across that i condone it or believe it should happen like im a tattooed up meat head gum rat or something and im not. i was just trying to help but opinion obviously differ and so i am done on these type of threads and since im a guest on the board it is my job to go with the flow of the beliefs i suppose. so thanks for the input phate and fuzzy and i again agree he is too young and it could damage but turned into me defending myself more than anything and im not trying to come across this way ata ll. so thats that. on with life

[Phate]

agreed, though they have done studies showing the effects of them thoroughly, though not as black and white as something like, "The effects of steroid abuse on 15 year old male endocrine systems", because that would be unethical. But the medical community has done literally thousands of studies on the effects of exogenous hormones on differing parts of the body, and from the results we can conclude that there is ALWAYS some damage done if hormones are taken before the body is finished growing, it's just the extent that is in question.

[SlimmerMe]

This kind of advice/thinking is not necessary nor wanted here on this board~ PLEASE STOP.
OP IS 20.

PLEASE NOTE to clarify: when I said the above I was referring to the specific advice not wanted, not the member.

Now let's get back to business~

[Windex]

James2012: It is against board rules to offer any kind of anabolic help to those under 25. You clearly don't have any respect for the rules here after slimmer has told you multiple times and you are continuing to argue and be stubborn.

You will not be here long if you keep that up.

[Phate]

good point^^^

OP, if you would like help with diet please post a detailed account of a daily diet including portion amounts, macronutrients, and total caloric intakes including supplements and time of administration/meals. With this we can help you to fine tune your diet to suit your goals, which is your most important tool when trying to shape your physique.

[SlimmerMe]

^^^ we await for OP to come to the Diet Question forum.

FOOD IS YOUR BEST CHEMICAL!

SEE YA THERE!

[Paulbber]

^^^ we await for OP to come to the Diet Question forum.

FOOD IS YOUR BEST CHEMICAL!

SEE YA THERE!

should I create a thread there? anyway, my diet is pretty basic, i make sure to get protein every 2 hours, I try to get most of my protein from meats but if I cant, ill have a shake. The top foods i eat everyday are turkey burgers, eggs, ground beef, and protein shakes. I get my fats from almonds, walnuts, and cashews. I mostly only eat carbs right when i wake up, and post workout. always have a gatorade postworkout for an inuslin boost. i have my complex carbs postworkout aswell.

supps: myofusion, bcaa, creatine, vit c, b complex

edit: benched 225 today, 5 clean rep, 2 forced

-paul

[Windex]

should I create a thread there? anyway, my diet is pretty basic, i make sure to get protein every 2 hours, I try to get most of my protein from meats but if I cant, ill have a shake. The top foods i eat everyday are turkey burgers, eggs, ground beef, and protein shakes. I get my fats from almonds, walnuts, and cashews. I mostly only eat carbs right when i wake up, and post workout. always have a gatorade postworkout for an inuslin boost. i have my complex carbs postworkout aswell.

supps: myofusion, bcaa, creatine, vit c, b complex

edit: benched 225 today, 5 clean rep, 2 forced

a little off subject, but where do i go to add a avatar?

-paul

No offense mate but your diet is horrible and needs a complete overhaul. Post everything in the diet section and people there will help you. HOWEVER, the diet advise you are given is ONLY under the assumption that you will not use steroids because you are in no way shape or form ready for them.

[Paulbber]

No offense mate but your diet is horrible and needs a complete overhaul. Post everything in the diet section and people there will help you. HOWEVER, the diet advise you are given is ONLY under the assumption that you will not use steroids because you are in no way shape or form ready for them.

yea bro im gonna wait a few years

lay it on me

[SlimmerMe]

should I create a thread there? anyway, my diet is pretty basic, i make sure to get protein every 2 hours, I try to get most of my protein from meats but if I cant, ill have a shake. The top foods i eat everyday are turkey burgers, eggs, ground beef, and protein shakes. I get my fats from almonds, walnuts, and cashews. I mostly only eat carbs right when i wake up, and post workout. always have a gatorade postworkout for an inuslin boost. i have my complex carbs postworkout aswell.

supps: myofusion, bcaa, creatine, vit c, b complex

edit: benched 225 today, 5 clean rep, 2 forced

-paul

YES! Start a new thread in the diet question forum. When you do please post upfront your stats and goals. Also post up a sample of what you eat and when. And also your workout routine. Then the members can review and help you tweak your program so it WORKS!

See ya there! We all end up there sooner or later~