Hows my first cycle looking

[Dave01]

I'm going for the basic beginners cycle of:

1-12 test e 500mgs/week
1-5 dbol 30mgs/day
1-15 arimidex 0.5mgs e3d
2-14 1000 ius HCG/week
15-18 nolva 20/20/20/20

Good training and nutrition, I've got that covered. Don't want to take clomid because I've heard bad things.

Anyone have any thoughts on the cycle?

I'm 5'11 and 187 lbs. I've been training for a few years natural and are ready to step up in bodybuilding.

Thanks for any help

[upperhandy]

I'm going for the basic beginners cycle of:

1-12 test e 500mgs/week
1-5 dbol 30mgs/day
1-15 arimidex 0.5mgs e3d this might not be necessary, maybe just keep on hand and use if you experience ERS's
2-14 1000 ius HCG/week ---> I would half this to 500ius/week.
15-18 nolva 20/20/20/20 consider adding clomid 50/50/50/50

Good training and nutrition, I've got that covered. Don't want to take clomid because I've heard bad things. i've never had any problems... split the nolva and clomid... nolva morning and clomid right before bed

Anyone have any thoughts on the cycle?

I'm 5'11 and 187 lbs. I've been training for a few years natural and are ready to step up in bodybuilding.

Thanks for any help

how old are you?

[Dave01]

22. I'm doing it now though because my gains are really slow now and how can I progress if I spend 2 years doing nothing? I know what tolookout for to stay safe anyways

[Dave01]

I was thinking of only taking 500ius instead. Arimidex seems like a good idea though. I would consider clomid but I'm not sure.

[Dr Pepper]

To young. Reserch why...

[upperhandy]

okay.... forget everything i just said.... you are probably just a couple of years too young to start using aas.... have you read marcus' thread

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...g-and-Steroids

if not you should give it a peek

all you need now is a great diet, some hard training, and lots of rest..... save yourself some grief and wait 2 or 3 more years

[Dave01]

22 isn't really too young. People have started in their teens and are fine. I know it's supposed to do more damage to your endocrine system but awell not everything goes perfectly. If I wait untill 24/25 how will I ever be the best?

I've not saw much proving you need to be 25 anyways. Actually I've saw more people who are successful when they take it in their teens. A friend of mine started at 18, has been on it for 20 years and has no problems whatsoever

[Dave01]

Show me an actual study that says there's more damage at 22 than at 25. No offense but don't believe everything you read

[stpete]

It's common sense Dave01....

[Dave01]

I've not saw any proof. Not to mention there's hardly a huge difference between 22 and 24. I mean seriousy as long as you're sensible and don't overdose or do stupid things you should be fine. Most of the people who say wait until 25 started much earlier than that at like 21 and are fine.

This whole wait until 25 thing is getting blown out of proportion. I could find an endo who says it's fine to take at 21. Come out of dream world where everyone waits until 25

[stpete]

Hey, it's your body. Do what you want w/it and i wish you all the luck.

I waited till i was 27 btw.

[songdog]

Why do we always have to have the same arguement.There is nothing in stone that says you will have problems.But not everyone who smokes dies of lung cancer.Quit acting like a spoiled brat and be grateful people are here to help.But we will not give advice to the under age.No matter how big a tantrum you throw.Have a good day.

[Dave01]

lol you sound like I'm going to die from this cycle. Do you actually think that someone couldn't bounce back from a beginners cycle like that? Most people would have no problem getting back to normal with that especially with a good PCT. I wouldn't even hate on a 19 year old doing that (although I won't on this forum as I believe it is against the rules). Sure, I'd tell them to wait til 20/21 but come on this nonsense is some old wives tale. Do you really think that a couple of simple cycles, with moderate doses and PCT with plenty of time off after to go fully back to normal is going to do much damage? On the main website they say it's safe to take at 18 years old.

I don't see how the risks are greater for a 22 year old than a 25 year old. I've never saw a study proving it and most 40 odd year olds have low test anyways steroids or not

Tell me how on earth can I expect a good bodybuilding career if I start at 25? I'm starting at 22 and my little brother is even younger doing it. Will we have problems? We may. I doubt they'd be any different than the ones we'd get at 25.

I want to enjoy having my muscles at a young age as well

[Dave01]

Why do we always have to have the same arguement.There is nothing in stone that says you will have problems.But not everyone who smokes dies of lung cancer.Quit acting like a spoiled brat and be grateful people are here to help.But we will not give advice to the under age.No matter how big a tantrum you throw.Have a good day.

I'm going to use your smoking example.

You do know that the reason a large majority of smokers don't get lung cancer is because they don't abuse as much as the others. It's the same with steroids. If you are sensible and know what you're doing you'll be fine.

Arnold started at 15. Some test and dbol. He was on it for years and he's apparantly got some love child or some shiit showing he's still fertile after years and years of steroids (he's an older guy too). He's hardly had many problems. Did the extreme side effects that some of you guys make out are going to happen, happen. I don't think so.

This is ridiculous. The risks of steroids when used sensibly are minimal and ou guys act as I'm going to turn into some monster. Most go back to normal after time off. Some guys don't PCT and are fine. With 6 months off between cycles and a decent PCT you will be more than fine. The same as you'd be at 25 anyways.

Just because someone says it then repeats it, doesn't mean it is true

[songdog]

Bro I aint saying you cant bounce back.But everyones body is different.We have had a few kids here who did a simple cycle.And they had bad reactions after.No libdo no wood thats hell for a young kid.And yes it can and does happen to older guys.But the chances are slimmer.I really dont care if you juice bro.Go a head do wat you got to do.I am only here to let you know the dangers.And to let you know we wont advise you on your quest.I wish you luck!

[dlossing]

just a little fyi, i was one that did aas at 18 and i messed myself up pretty good even with a proper pct, hereditary baldness is a bitch and you cant get rid of it, not to mention im diabetic now, not saying that was a catalytst

[Dave01]

Bro I aint saying you cant bounce back.But everyones body is different.We have had a few kids here who did a simple cycle.And they had bad reactions after.No libdo no wood thats hell for a young kid.And yes it can and does happen to older guys.But the chances are slimmer.I really dont care if you juice bro.Go a head do wat you got to do.I am only here to let you know the dangers.And to let you know we wont advise you on your quest.I wish you luck!

Well it is more than likely they will go back to normal after a few months. Of course you will witness side effects. You are going from a superhuman level of testosterone to a normal level. Even with the greatest PCT in the world you will get sides. You return to normal eventually though.

I think it is ridiculous how you won't help under 25's cycle. Under 21's fair enough but you guys are helping make the problem worse because these guys are cycling with no knowledge. Just tell them they disagree if you do and let them decide.

I have a hunch that the only reason there are worse side effects for younger guys is they are too immature to use and end up abusing steroids.

Oh and I'd bet the guy in your avi took steroids under 25 hehehe

In fact, didn't all the winners in bodybuilding take them under 25?

Oh and exlain how my friend(yes the one that came up earlier) had a child on a high dosage test, deca and dbol cycle. It's not as bad as you guys are making out. You guys sound like the media lmao.

DON'T TAKE STEROID OR YOU'LL DIE!!!!!!!!

lmao, so ironic on a steroid forum where half the guys are abusing

[Dave01]

just a little fyi, i was one that did aas at 18 and i messed myself up pretty good even with a proper pct, hereditary baldness is a bitch and you cant get rid of it, not to mention im diabetic now, not saying that was a catalytst

Do you actually think I care? I mean no offense but if you messed yourself up bad then you were doing something wrong. I bet you've went back to normal as well.

You're probably one of the unlucky guys who reacts badly. And you were probably doing it wrong

[songdog]

Bro you are shutting your nat system dowm.There is nothing that says it has to restart.And yes one kid did kill himself.He got depressed.A side of low T.But as a kid he couldnt handle it.So you can point fingers and say he did you did and they are ok.But not everyone is ok.Now if you want to run it.Just shut the hell up and acting like a kid and run it.There are reasons why we do wat we do.Respect it or go else where.

[Dave01]

There is no documented death that has ever been caused by steroids. natty test should go back to normal on sensible amounts and with a good pct it's a pretty safe plan. Steroids at 21 are fine if you're sensible

[songdog]

Maybe you should read before you start writting.I said he killed himself.I believe he was a HS baseball player.Not sure.

[gixxerboy1]

No what you right Dave. Your cycle is perfect and you will be fine. But you already knew that cause you know people that used at 19 and know someone that been using for over 20 years. I don't even know why you came for advice since apparently your circle of friends are very experienced.

I mean we only see the over 1000 new threads a day. I kinda lost count of how many of them are i only did 1 cycle and it was 6 months ago and i still got ed. Or i lost all my gains and feel like shit whats wrong with me. But i guess they are all fake propaganda post. You know we here at AR have a secret agenda where we don't want you to be your best so we are trying to talk you out of it. We have so much to gain if you dont cycle.

[Windex]

Dave you are not going to get help on this forum as it's against the rules to advise those under 25 to use AAS. Your dieting and training are the problem. People here have been juicing longer than you've been alive. You can believe whatever you want and if you choose to cycle you will get no sympathy from members here a few years later when you develop erectile dysfunction.

[Dave01]

Maybe you should read before you start writting.I said he killed himself.I believe he was a HS baseball player.Not sure.

I may have the wrong person but I'mpretty sure that guy was in bigger faster stronger? He was on depressive medication that had suicidal tendencies and was depressed to begin with. You do know that's one within thousands of users who turn out fine?

[Dave01]

No what you right Dave. Your cycle is perfect and you will be fine. But you already knew that cause you know people that used at 19 and know someone that been using for over 20 years. I don't even know why you came for advice since apparently your circle of friends are very experienced.

I mean we only see the over 1000 new threads a day. I kinda lost count of how many of them are i only did 1 cycle and it was 6 months ago and i still got ed. Or i lost all my gains and feel like shit whats wrong with me. But i guess they are all fake propaganda post. You know we here at AR have a secret agenda where we don't want you to be your best so we are trying to talk you out of it. We have so much to gain if you dont cycle.

I came to this forum for some other opinions than just one. The people who come on comlaining about losing their gains are the idiots who stop training after cycle or take a relaxed view of "ah that's my cycle finished so I can relax the training a bit more now and start to go out with friends more often". Or there the idots who go from Squats on cycle to leg extensions off. The way to keep your gains after cycle is to keep traing and eating just as hard if not harder when on. Some people are just too stupid to do that.

Some idiots are just too dangerous with it. I've saw guys who've started a cycle at high does of all types of stuff and keep going and going with it. They're abusing instead of being sensible.

I'm more than convinced I will be fine. The risks are the same for a 22 year old as a 25 year old. I sure have never saw any evidence that says other wise.

[pointblank]

You have done your research and made up your mind already so just do it bro.

I would half the HCG to 500iu a week though, save the 1000iu for advanced cycles.

[Dave01]

Dave you are not going to get help on this forum as it's against the rules to advise those under 25 to use AAS. Your dieting and training are the problem. People here have been juicing longer than you've been alive. You can believe whatever you want and if you choose to cycle you will get no sympathy from members here a few years later when you develop erectile dysfunction.

lol at you saying my diet and training are off. I have been training and eating properly since I was 15. Messing abut with them from 14. I know all I need to know about training and nutrition. The people who lose their gains after cycle are the ones who don't know anything about training or nutrition.

Just because people have been juicing when I've not doesn't mean much to me. That guy could be an idiot. lmao at erectile disfunction. You guys are seriously like the horror crew of steroids. I've saw tons of studies showing people go back to normal when off Didn't even take PCT. How on earth could someone get an erectile disfunction from a simple cycle like this. Almost any young male could fire back from this cycle in a matter of months. The only people who may get that are the ones who had very low test to begin with and shouldn't be touching steroids anyways.

And if an erectile disfunction happens in your 40's then that doesn't prove much to me because tons of guys in their 40's have an erectile dysfunction. That happens beacuse they are naturally lowering in test levels.

Why is it that on the main site it says 18 years old is fine if you've been training for a few years and know the risks but on here you're going to go to the pits of hell if you're under 25. Such a difference

[Dave01]

You have done your research and made up your mind already so just do it bro.

I would half the HCG to 500iu a week though, save the 1000iu for advanced cycles.

Some good advice here thank you. I have decided to take 500 ius instead. Will take 1000 ius when take slightly bigger cycles. I have made my mind up and I haven't saw anything that's believable saying I can't

[SlimmerMe]

You have done your research and made up your mind already so just do it bro.

I would half the HCG to 500iu a week though, save the 1000iu for advanced cycles.

PLEASE DO NOT GIVE CYCLE ADVISE TO OP. HE IS 22 and needs to learn more. THANKS~

[SlimmerMe]

The Young and Steroids
by Marcus300

Due to the recent number of PM's ive been receiving regarding age and steroids I thought i'd write this thread to try and help some of our younger members. Ive also been having a conversation with my Endocrinologist who may give a more profession opinion on the subject:

There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.

I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding . Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.
Marcus

[jasc]

I say go for it.. worst case scenario, you shutdown your endocrine system, can't get an erection, we all win... your arms are bigger, your happy, you can't reproduce n create arrogant offspring, we're happy... but think about the looks on the girls faces when you get them in the mood with your big muscles and can't get it up.. will be priceless...

In all seriousness, they say to wait until you are 25 because thats when your endocrine system is finally fully developed. Before that point the risk of stopping development or permanently causing damage is much greater...

And yes your buddy who has taken them for 19 yrs seems and acts fine, but do you really think he would tell you if he couldn't get it up naturally?

[Dave01]

The Young and Steroids
by Marcus300

Due to the recent number of PM's ive been receiving regarding age and steroids I thought i'd write this thread to try and help some of our younger members. Ive also been having a conversation with my Endocrinologist who may give a more profession opinion on the subject:

There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.

I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding . Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.
Marcus

Right no didrespect to thisguy butwe're supposed to believe this? For all we know he didn't even go to his endo. I'd like an actual source that shows this. The risks for a 21 years old are the same as those for a 25 year old. Don't try and say that a guy who takes them at 25 couldn't end up with problems.

Hey guess what guys, the way to use that is use it sensibly with regualr blood testing

Oh and by the way I've done a to of research for the last 3 years. I know my shiit. I'm running this cycle. And guess what? I doing it sensibly and getting bloods checked and letting them return to normal. I'll be fine

[SlimmerMe]

Carry on~

and....GOOD LUCK!

ps: to those reading this? "carry on" is meant as sarcasm not an endorsement.....

[marcus300]

Your not 22 yrs and been training for 7 years, this whole thread is lies

On the 6/7/11 your posted this thread http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...mer&highlight=

20yrs old, training 3 yrs


You come to a steroid site and ask for advice and you totally disregard it.

You will learn the hard way and I can see there is no point in even trying to explain what you fail to understand already


Best of luck you will need it

By the way you can get suspended for lying about your stats on this forum

[Dave01]

Carry on~

and....GOOD LUCK!

ps: to those reading this? "carry on" is meant as sarcasm not an endorsement.....

Give me one good reason with backed up proof as to why I can't

[Dave01]

Your not 22 yrs and been training for 7 years, this whole thread is lies

On the 6/7/11 your posted this thread http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...mer&highlight=

20yrs old, training 3 yrs


You come to a steroid site and ask for advice and you totally disregard it.

You will learn the hard way and I can see there is no point in even trying to explain what you fail to understand already


Best of luck you will need it

By the way you can get suspended for lying about your stats on this forum

I made that thread as a test to see what you guys would say. Turned out you guys like to talk shiit and know shiit. By the way you have no proof you went to your endo so fuk right off

[gbrice75]

I'm more than convinced I will be fine. The risks are the same for a 22 year old as a 25 year old. I sure have never saw any evidence that says other wise.

You've clearly made up your mind - so why are you wasting everybody's time here? Move on!

Your not 22 yrs and been training for 7 years, this whole thread is lies

On the 6/7/11 your posted this thread http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...mer&highlight=

20yrs old, training 3 yrs


You come to a steroid site and ask for advice and you totally disregard it.

You will learn the hard way and I can see there is no point in even trying to explain what you fail to understand already


Best of luck you will need it

By the way you can get suspended for lying about your stats on this forum

PWND!!!

Give me one good reason with backed up proof as to why I can't

Nobody here has to 'give you' anything! You're owed nothing. A boot in the ass is something you should get though.

[nilrac]

Marcus is a very respected vet here. I take everything he says onboard whereas you (OP) have swanned in and not wanted to listen to a word anybody is telling you. Personally speaking, every person I know who has cycled around the age of 20 years old has some kind of problem, which could be attributed to their use of AAS. Mostly depression. Goodluck.

[Sicko]

[target88]

I cant say i would have waited till I was 25 if i would've had access to ass so its easy for me to say wait, now that im 35. but I would not take these guys experience for granted.