Lean bulking diet while on test e/dbol/ Stan. Please critique.

[Loges]

I'm interested in a good solid lean bulk diet whilst on test e/dbol/Stan. I'm currently 70kg 11% BF 175 cm tall and 25 y.o my diet consists of roo, chicken, tuna, egg whites, cottage cheese, protien shake as protein source around about 300g over 7 meals. Carbs come from oats, brocolli, carrot, and wholemeal bread as well as dextrose as pwo meal with protein shake immediately following workout. Around 280g throughout day and fats are basically whatever is already hidden in the foods apart from fish oil caps x 4 throughout day. Currently sitting around 3000 cals. Is this enough you think for a lean bulk whilst on the gear? Any help would be awesome. This is my first time on the gear and trying to gain as much muscle as possible without adding too much excess fat.

[Loges]

Oh also I eat brown rice as a carb source too. Train about 5 times a week and used to do cardio 3 times a week but now I'm bulking should I still do LISS to prevent fat storage. I generally consume 2 scoops of xtend whilst working out to get my bcaa and glutamine intake to prevent muscle breakdown. And take a pack of animal pack every morning on waking. Think I've covered it all. Any other questions that may help you help me with my lean bulk diet just ask. This is all new to me so any help would be great.

[SlimmerMe]

Welcome! do you want to bulk more? or lose BF more?

[Loges]

I want to bulk more. Use this gear for it's proper purpose. To get big.

[SlimmerMe]

Most adhere to this: easier to do one at a time. Either bulk or cut.

So you want to bulk...what is your specific goal in what time frame?

[Loges]

My specific goal is to gain as much size as possible without putting on too much excess fat. I understand that putting on an amount of fat comes with bulking but hoping to do it as lean as possible.

[Loges]

No specific time frame. Cycle finishes around about Christmas time so yeah.

[Loges]

What do you recommend as a daily coloric intake/ macros for a clean bulk? I know that there will be a fat gain. That comes with the nature of bulking. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[lordoftheoctagon]

dude that all depends on your (your macros). you gotta go by your BMR, then do the math. I really think you need to just let go of the whole "lean bulk" idea and just bulk, u can cut when its time to. I just got off of a 14 week cycle of test E/Dbol. I too did a lean bulk and it was very effective, but then again i knew my macros and i had everything down to a science cuz thats what bodybuilding is to me. Just get above maintenance and eat clean, you should be just fine. (an AI would help too)

[SlimmerMe]

To better help you will need to post macros since now this is becoming a science as stated above...
so please list out your foods in a list format with times of day you are eating along with macros for specific review and this will get you on your path...

thanks

[Loges]

AI? sorry not sure what that is. how much lean mass you put on doing it clean bro? yeah i count all my macros, been doing so for a while. just come off a cut so wanting to bulk, and clean. i think this diet is pretty clean, probably could do with a few changes but here it is for you guys. i work shift work so sometimes the times will be a bit different depending on whether im on nights/days but basically the same order.

breakfast (7:00am) Calories Carbs Fat Protein
Golden Eggs - Cutting Edge Eggwhites, 1 cup 115 1 0 24
Nature + - Fish Oil 1000mg Omega 3 Softgel Capsules, 2 capsule 20 0 2 0
Universal Nutrition - Animal Pak , 1 Paks 20 2 0 3
Rolled Oats (90g) 348 50 8 13
Sanitarium - Natural Peanut Butter - Smooth- 100% Nuts, 1 tb 154 3 13 7

pre workout (9:00am)
Riviana Mahatma Brown - Natural Long Grain Rice (Cooked), 110 g 146 30 1 4
Nature + - Fish Oil 1000mg Omega 3 Softgel Capsules, 2 capsule 20 0 2 0
Macro Meats - Kangaroo Fillet, 130 g 127 1 0 30

during workout (11:00am - 12:00pm)
Scivation - Xtend (Refreshing Blue Raspberry), 4 Scoops 63 2 0 14

post workout (12:00pm)
RND - pure dextrose monohydrate, 50 g 184 46 0 0
Optimum Nutrition - Gold Standard 100% Whey - Rocky Road, 1.6 scoop 192 5 2 38

Meal 3 (12:45pm)
Scivation - Xtend Refreshing Grape (new formula), 2 Scoops 0 0 0 11
Riviana Mahatma Brown - Natural Long Grain Rice (Cooked), 130 g 173 35 1 4
Macro meats, kangaroo burger (2) 209 2 3 43

Meal 4 (3:00pm)
Carotino - Canola Oil & Red Palm Fruit Cooking Oil, 5 ml 40 0 5 0
Woolworths Homebrand (Australia) - Tuna Chunks In Springwate, 170 g 165 0 1 38
Veg - Veg Brocolli , 150 g 45 18 1 8

Meal 5 (5:00pm):
protein bar (my own recipe), 1 serving .407 37 11 36
Fresh - Pink Lady Apple, 40 g 21 3 0 0

meal 6 (7:00pm)
Riviana Mahatma Brown - Natural Long Grain Rice (Cooked), 90 g 124 24 1 3
Broccoli - Broccoli Steamed, 150 g 53 11 1 4
Macro Meats - Kangaroo Fillet, 130 g 127 1 0 30

before bed (9:00pm)
Veg - Veg Brocolli , 125 g 38 15 1 6
Aldi - Low Fat Cottage Cheese, 240g 221 11 4 35

Total: 3064 304 59 354

BMR: 66+967+875-170= 1738
TDEE: 2998.05

hope ive got all the info you need.

[lordoftheoctagon]

An "AI" is aromatase inhibitor Arimidex (Anastrozole). it helps keep estrogen down in your cycle. I.E. keep you from bloating. if you didnt know what an AI was im curious to know if you even did your homework before cycle? anyway moving on, to be honest with you buddy, your only 154 lbs (sorry I go by pounds, cuz im in the states) once again to be honest here in this situation i wouldnt even use AAS if i were you. You could see great gains naturally. But hey your going to do what you want anyway so rock on. now these macros, are they in Kcals or calories? if they are in calories then you need to bump them up big time. not quite sure what the conversaion is for Kcal tho. you have alot of kangaroo meat in your diet, do you not have access to chicken, steak (eye of round), ground beef (extra lean),ground turkey or anything like that? your last meal i would skip the veggies and substiute it with a fat like almonds or walnuts, maybe even some natural PB. but your diet needs work, dont get frustrated tho cuz nobody is perfect. we call can learn from eachother.

[lordoftheoctagon]

let me ask you this, do you even have a plan set for PCT?

[Loges]

hey bro, yeah i have pct in place. currently im running 10mg of nolva whilst on cycle to prevent any gyno symptoms etc, and once finished cycle, im going to use 40mg for 4 weeks, then 20mg for 2 weeks. sound good? the reason i asked what ai was, was simply becuase im not up with all the abbrevaitions and are quite new to the whole AAS thing. my macros are in calories. find it easier for everyone to keep it simple stupid and do the figures in calories, that way anyone that reads this thread can simply read it and know what its all about. the diet i typed out was simply what i had that particular day, was just a general diet that i am following does not differ much. i generally substitute my protein sources in and out as i have them available to me. i have access to chicken, roo, lean ground meat etc. so different sources of protein are not an issue. yeah i realise my diet needs some work and that is why i have made a thread to get the assistance of those that know a little more than i do, so fire away with the ideas. what do you recommend? calories? will take the idea of cutting the broccoli out and chucking in a tbs of natty PB. yes im fairly light, alot lighter than i would like to be but i just came off a cut for quite some time and tbh with you, im not a skinny little bugger with no muscle mass trying to get huge off AAS. i have done the natural thing, and made some awesome gains from it, now want to push those gains further as it seemed like they werent increasing. yes i have done a fair bit of research before jumping onto a cycle, asked a fair few people about it etc, and they, along with myself beleive that at this moment in time, this is a good idea for me.
please keep the ideas and knowledge flowing guys, every little bit helps.

[Loges]

i have altered my diet for today after your advice lordoftheoctogon. chucked in a bit more rice in meal 3, 154g of apple in pwo meal, and substituted the broccoli for 1 tbs of natty pb to bring my cals up. macros for today: 316/71/357 c/f/p. Overall cal intake: 3313 cals

[SlimmerMe]

Hi...could you tell some of us about Kangaroo meat? I have no idea. Is it lean? and how does it taste? curious...

[auslifta]

Hi...could you tell some of us about Kangaroo meat? I have no idea. Is it lean? and how does it taste? curious...

Its extremely lean, needs to be cooked no more than medium rare. It's like beef as far as aminos but really low in fat. Great for bodybuilding. I like the taste, maybe bit like venison, great with a teryaki marinade.
I think your diet looks good. How is it coming along?

[Loges]

Yeah what auslifta said, very lean low fat meat. Great for bodybuilding. High in protein too. I love the stuff.

Diet is good. If you have any pointers where it should improve then please feel free bro. Only been on this diet for a week and seeing some lean gains already. Which puts a smile on my face but I'm still learning how to set up the best lean bulk diet. So far so good.

[auslifta]

As you grow you will have to increase your food. If you find yourself getting bit too fat, just increase cardio a bit PWO.

[Loges]

You think cals etc are pretty on the money? If you altered any macros what would you change and to what?

[Loges]

I do fasted cardio 3 times a week ATM to keep weight down while bulking and take bcaa during that time. You rekin thatd be enough bro?

[auslifta]

I don't like fasted cardio much. Especially on a bulk! Your body needs something 24/7 during a bulk. Prob bump up egg whites in morning. I wouldnt change much more, everybody is different, some can gain on not many cals at all, while others need 1000+ cals above maintence. You just need to find how it works for you. It's a good start.

[Loges]

I don't like fasted cardio much. Especially on a bulk! Your body needs something 24/7 during a bulk. Prob bump up egg whites in morning. I wouldnt change much more, everybody is different, some can gain on not many cals at all, while others need 1000+ cals above maintence. You just need to find how it works for you. It's a good start.

cheers bro. will do take the egg white recommendation on board. will add it in tomorrow. so you saying that the updated diet from lordoftheoctogon's recommendations is what i should go off...being roughly 3300 cals daily is the way to go or what i initially put down? sorry if that seems confusing. lol.

yeah basically im just wanting to bulk up as lean as i can without preventing muscle gain, as obviuosly that is my ultimate goal. so you dont think fasted cardio is the way to keep the excess fat stored off, maybe do cardio pwo instead? isnt fasted cardio better for fat burning though as the body has no option but to turn to fat stores?

[SlimmerMe]

I would love to try some Kangaroo....I figured it must be lean since you were eating a lot of it at 11& BF. That was not a trick question by the way, just curious as to "how" lean it was future reference.

[auslifta]

cheers bro. will do take the egg white recommendation on board. will add it in tomorrow. so you saying that the updated diet from lordoftheoctogon's recommendations is what i should go off...being roughly 3300 cals daily is the way to go or what i initially put down? sorry if that seems confusing. lol.

yeah basically im just wanting to bulk up as lean as i can without preventing muscle gain, as obviuosly that is my ultimate goal. so you dont think fasted cardio is the way to keep the excess fat stored off, maybe do cardio pwo instead? isnt fasted cardio better for fat burning though as the body has no option but to turn to fat stores?

Your bulking, not cutting. It's one or the other. During a bulk you should not do fasted cardio IMO.
As far as the calories go, like I said it's very person dependant. I know some guys that weigh in at 95kgs @ 12% that only eat 200g protein a day, others weigh 89kgs @9% that need 250+(this guy eats whatever he wants too, mudcake, cheesecake etc never does cardio or touched AAS, makes me sick). Its a good start(your proposed diet) Adjust as you go along.

[Loges]

http://macromeats.com.au/

That's a link to the company I get my kangaroo from. Has all dietary information there for you

[Loges]

Your bulking, not cutting. It's one or the other. During a bulk you should not do fasted cardio IMO.
As far as the calories go, like I said it's very person dependant. I know some guys that weigh in at 95kgs @ 12% that only eat 200g protein a day, others weigh 89kgs @9% that need 250+(this guy eats whatever he wants too, mudcake, cheesecake etc never does cardio or touched AAS, makes me sick). Its a good start(your proposed diet) Adjust as you go along.

Cheers bro. Yeah will alter as I see changes etc. Thought it was pretty decent but thought I'd run it past a few peeps on here. Just a question though, what other fibrous veggies would you recommend beside broccoli. I know there are heaps to choose from but would like your advice.

[Loges]

I would love to try some Kangaroo....I figured it must be lean since you were eating a lot of it at 11& BF. That was not a trick question by the way, just curious as to "how" lean it was future reference.

Check that out. It's where I get my kangaroo meat from. Has all the information you might need to be satisfied it's a good source of protein etc for bodybuilding.

http://macromeats.com.au/

[Loges]

Your bulking, not cutting. It's one or the other. During a bulk you should not do fasted cardio IMO.
As far as the calories go, like I said it's very person dependant. I know some guys that weigh in at 95kgs @ 12% that only eat 200g protein a day, others weigh 89kgs @9% that need 250+(this guy eats whatever he wants too, mudcake, cheesecake etc never does cardio or touched AAS, makes me sick). Its a good start(your proposed diet) Adjust as you go along.

Yeah bro. Cheers for the advice. Guess I gotta get used to the idea that i am going to gain some fat whilst bulking. Just worried as f@?k that I'm going to get too fat. Lol. Also, what other sources of fibrous veg would you recommend besides broccoli? I know there is heaps but it's good to get others opinions. Was thinking spinach or coli (even though coli goes against the rule of green veg)

[Loges]

I would love to try some Kangaroo....I figured it must be lean since you were eating a lot of it at 11& BF. That was not a trick question by the way, just curious as to "how" lean it was future reference.

check out macro meats website....not sure if i can post a link so just look it up in google or something and it will give you all the information you may want to know in regards to the nutritional value of roo.....its great....

[Loges]

Your bulking, not cutting. It's one or the other. During a bulk you should not do fasted cardio IMO.
As far as the calories go, like I said it's very person dependant. I know some guys that weigh in at 95kgs @ 12% that only eat 200g protein a day, others weigh 89kgs @9% that need 250+(this guy eats whatever he wants too, mudcake, cheesecake etc never does cardio or touched AAS, makes me sick). Its a good start(your proposed diet) Adjust as you go along.

yeah trying to bulk. i gotta let go of the whole idea of trying to lean bulk and just bulk, im just too worried about getting fat whilst doing it...lol. ah well, thats the beauty of when the time to cut is. lol. yeah understand that everyone is different and will keep you posted with my progress. hope i can slowly bulk and make some sick gains. cheers bro.

[auslifta]

I'm a huge believer in Cutting before bulking not the other way around. I think someone should be around 10% for a bulk. I'd never let myself get above 15% during a bulk. Anything green for vegies during a cut. You're bulking, so pretty much any veggie is fair game, it's good to get a large variety of veggies. Once a week treat yourself to alot of fruit. Adjust cardio and carbs if you feel your getting to fat.

[SlimmerMe]

Thanks for the kangaroo link....Auslifta shared it with me as well....

and agree from what all I have read around here it is better to cut before a bulk

[Loges]

Yeah I just came off a cut so started off around 11% I think and yeah don't want to let myself get any further than 15% BF while bulking so will adjust cardio as I go along, along with everything else. Cheers for the advice bro.

[Loges]

Will keep you posted with my progress guys. I've put on 2 kg of lean mass in just under 2 weeks so pretty happy with that. Weights have gone through the roof so making some sick gains there also.

[Loges]

Updates: I've kinda stalled on my weight gains so not too sure as to whether I'm still making muscle gains or not. My macros are 370/370/80 c/p/f and daily cals sitting around the 3700 mark. You think this is enough of an increase in cals over maintenance being. Around 3000 cals for maintenance. Read that 500 for a clean bulk is suffice but wanted a little help with it. Also, pwo I'm taking whey protein and dextrose as a shake immediately after workout, what are your thought on dextrose vs oats? I know how important simple carbs are pwo so will oats be better or not? Any advice would be appreciated.

[Loges]

Weights in the gym are going up but not on the scales. I'm looking fairly lean and more muscular too but surely it's not muscle replacing fat because I wasn't that fat and still look the same around stomach. A mate that is running same cycle but eating a bit more freely and maybe 150 cals more with more carbs less protein is easily stacking on the weight.

[exrx84]

Roo meat can contain parasites if not prepared correctly but the CLA content makes it valid choice!

[Loges]

True but to be honest with you, I've never gotten sick from it. The only roo meat you really have to cook well is the burgers and mince but I generally go for the steaks or fillets which are bloody awesome and can be cooked the same as a piece of beef. Probably one of the leanest meat out there.