Steroids for big guys.

[Doctapeppa]

I keep seeing over and over again when someone more than, say 12% body fat, asks about a cycle they immediately are told not to take steroids and to lose weight first. What about someone like a powerlifter who wants the juice to get stronger and aren't so much worried about their physique? Powerlifters juice too, right? I understand that with higher body fat there is more aromatization of the androgens to estrogen but is there another reason bigger guys shouldn't juice? Would a starting cycle for a heavier powerlifter be the same as the basic 500 mg/week of testosterone+ hcg followed by swifto's pct, or do they need more help to keep estrogen down?

[dec11]

whats your full stats and age?

[Doctapeppa]

Not me! This is for educational purposes.

[dec11]

Not me! This is for educational purposes.

well you are right about the BF thing. high BP would be a concern and could set off a myriad of related problems.

[Doctapeppa]

Can't you just prevent those by taking an AI throughout the cycle?

[sizzlechest]

I keep seeing over and over again when someone more than, say 12% body fat, asks about a cycle they immediately are told not to take steroids and to lose weight first. What about someone like a powerlifter who wants the juice to get stronger and aren't so much worried about their physique? Powerlifters juice too, right? I understand that with higher body fat there is more aromatization of the androgens to estrogen but is there another reason bigger guys shouldn't juice? Would a starting cycle for a heavier powerlifter be the same as the basic 500 mg/week of testosterone+ hcg followed by swifto's pct, or do they need more help to keep estrogen down?

You should really condition for several months with no gear and then if you really have to or you think its will also make you feel better etc.. You can try a oral winstrol , anavar. The major risk is that you can get injured if your joints an tendons are not as strong s the muscle will get. But below 15% BF is usually the best results for AAS. Learning to eat right is the hardest part of the equation in my mind as people bodies are different.

[sizzlechest]

I keep seeing over and over again when someone more than, say 12% body fat, asks about a cycle they immediately are told not to take steroids and to lose weight first. What about someone like a powerlifter who wants the juice to get stronger and aren't so much worried about their physique? Powerlifters juice too, right? I understand that with higher body fat there is more aromatization of the androgens to estrogen but is there another reason bigger guys shouldn't juice? Would a starting cycle for a heavier powerlifter be the same as the basic 500 mg/week of testosterone+ hcg followed by swifto's pct, or do they need more help to keep estrogen down?

You should really condition for several months with no gear and then if you really have to or you think its will also make you feel better etc.. You can try a oral winstrol , anavar. The major risk is that you can get injured if your joints an tendons are not as strong s the muscle will get. But below 15% BF is usually the best results for AAS. Learning to eat right is the hardest part of the equation in my mind as people bodies are different.

[Doctapeppa]

You should really condition for several months with no gear and then if you really have to or you think its will also make you feel better etc.. You can try a oral winstrol , anavar. The major risk is that you can get injured if your joints an tendons are not as strong s the muscle will get. But below 15% BF is usually the best results for AAS. Learning to eat right is the hardest part of the equation in my mind as people bodies are different.

What do you mean by condition?

[The Bear 79]

I keep seeing over and over again when someone more than, say 12% body fat, asks about a cycle they immediately are told not to take steroids and to lose weight first. What about someone like a powerlifter who wants the juice to get stronger and aren't so much worried about their physique? Powerlifters juice too, right? I understand that with higher body fat there is more aromatization of the androgens to estrogen but is there another reason bigger guys shouldn't juice? Would a starting cycle for a heavier powerlifter be the same as the basic 500 mg/week of testosterone+ hcg followed by swifto's pct, or do they need more help to keep estrogen down?

In ur eyes, wut r the typical stats of a power lifter?

[Doctapeppa]

In ur eyes, wut r the typical stats of a power lifter?

15-20% body fat, average. Some with more, very few with less. Just what I think though. Never looked at actual numbers (doubt they exist)

[dec11]

You should really condition for several months with no gear and then if you really have to or you think its will also make you feel better etc.. You can try a oral winstrol , anavar. The major risk is that you can get injured if your joints an tendons are not as strong s the muscle will get. But below 15% BF is usually the best results for AAS. Learning to eat right is the hardest part of the equation in my mind as people bodies are different.

what is your reasoning behind this advice?

[dec11]

Can't you just prevent those by taking an AI throughout the cycle?

wont control BP

[amcon]

here is the truth about fat and steroids... yes you can use if you are over 12 or 15 persent... but, you are risking high blood preasure, risking plaque build up in arteries, risking kidney damage from the high blood preasure... sooo ssoooo ssssooo much more

so when ppl say get your body fat down it is soley for health reasons. so you dont die!!!

any one can "juice" but it is never safe for long term life...


i am not a doc just giving this info from my non medical educated point of view...

[D7M]

TONS of PL use AAS. They don't die.

Just like anyone else, they should use an AI if they need it. I know some PLs who cycle pretty heavy and due to some crazy genetics, don't need AIs (like I do even at sub 10% bf).

I think it's a pretty fair assessment to say that most people on this site use AAS primarily for aesthetic reasons. In that case, the lower ones BF, not only will they have less risk of sides, but more importantly, they will have a more productive cycle, that is, more lean gains (ie, "big and ripped").

But since PLs aren't concerned as much with aesthetics, they should still take precautions, and monitor their health just like us BBs.

[amcon]

cant disagree with that - how ever three ppl just died in the last few months all pl or power lifers... in each case they lifted went home and died...

all heart related deaths...


my personal experence

[D7M]

Yah and that Zyzz what's his face died and he weighed like 170lbs.

Moral of the story is: use, not abuse. And get your damn blood work and check ups done guys

[Doctapeppa]

Yah and that Zyzz what's his face died and he weighed like 170lbs.

Moral of the story is: use, not abuse. And get your damn blood work and check ups done guys

Wait, what? Zyzz from /b/ ?

Edit: Oh wow. Holy crap. Apparently he had an undiagnosed heart condition. Poor guy had a great sense of humor too.

[spoonta66]

Wait, what? Zyzz from /b/ ?

Edit: Oh wow. Holy crap. Apparently he had an undiagnosed heart condition. Poor guy had a great sense of humor too.

Probably from the AAS he had been abusing since he was 16!

[darkcrayz]

here is the truth about fat and steroids... yes you can use if you are over 12 or 15 persent... but, you are risking high blood preasure, risking plaque build up in arteries, risking kidney damage from the high blood preasure... sooo ssoooo ssssooo much more

so when ppl say get your body fat down it is soley for health reasons. so you dont die!!!

any one can "juice" but it is never safe for long term life...


i am not a doc just giving this info from my non medical educated point of view...

you are right, you do take risks but you wont know if you can handle those risks, or if they are even a risk until you do try.

as I am 20% bf they could be considered risks. BUT; based on my most recent blood work my blood pressure is 120/80 and my cholesterol levels are in range. He wont know until he tries and get blood work to see if its an issue.

if we always took, there are risks approach people would never venture outside.

[auslifta]

you are right, you do take risks but you wont know if you can handle those risks, or if they are even a risk until you do try.

as I am 20% bf they could be considered risks. BUT; based on my most recent blood work my blood pressure is 120/80 and my cholesterol levels are in range. He wont know until he tries and get blood work to see if its an issue.

if we always took, there are risks approach people would never venture outside.

Your blood pressure with increase with aas use at that high bf%. Why anyone would want to be 20%+ BF% and cycle is beyond me. At least if you get down to 12 or below, it shows you know how to diet, and discipline with diet. People think they can eat whatever they want when on AAS.

[D7M]

Wait, what? Zyzz from /b/ ?


Edit: Oh wow. Holy crap. Apparently he had an undiagnosed heart condition. Poor guy had a great sense of humor too.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...z#.TrFFDEOXu7s

^Just one of the too many threads on here about him..

[sizzlechest]

What do you mean by condition?

I mean no maxing out or low reps at the beginning, Your strength will go up and you can get injured. Here is what I suggest based on seeing results in myself and others. Before starting to cycle do the following for at least 3 months.

1) get your diet right and learn how to eat. Learn portions , frequency, how to eat out etc.. Internet diet plans are sometimes confusing. Calculate your bodies caloric intake and cut it but 20-25 %, That’s what you need to cut. 40/40/20. 40% protein, 40 % good carbs , 20% good fats.

2) Do only two body parts a day and only two exercises for each body part. Times 15 reps times 5 sets each. Do 1 minute of step climber in between each set. ( or other high intensity cardio) Change the exercises around each week. Remember to increase the weight on each set slightly, you will start lighter to warm up the muscles. So your first set is lightest and your last one heaviest. For the last set pick a weight that you do at least 12-15 reps.

3) Hit all muscles in 3 days and add abs and cardio another 2 days. You should not have to spend more than 50 minutes or so in the Gym to do this.

This will drop you down in Fat and get you conditioned. If you must cycle after this start your first one mild, like Winny only or add some prop in there. Continue with the same prigram as your build strength in your joints, muscles and tendons.

[Doctapeppa]

I mean no maxing out or low reps at the beginning, Your strength will go up and you can get injured. Here is what I suggest based on seeing results in myself and others. Before starting to cycle do the following for at least 3 months.

1) get your diet right and learn how to eat. Learn portions , frequency, how to eat out etc.. Internet diet plans are sometimes confusing. Calculate your bodies caloric intake and cut it but 20-25 %, That’s what you need to cut. 40/40/20. 40% protein, 40 % good carbs , 20% good fats.

2) Do only two body parts a day and only two exercises for each body part. Times 15 reps times 5 sets each. Do 1 minute of step climber in between each set. ( or other high intensity cardio) Change the exercises around each week. Remember to increase the weight on each set slightly, you will start lighter to warm up the muscles. So your first set is lightest and your last one heaviest. For the last set pick a weight that you do at least 12-15 reps.

3) Hit all muscles in 3 days and add abs and cardio another 2 days. You should not have to spend more than 50 minutes or so in the Gym to do this.

This will drop you down in Fat and get you conditioned. If you must cycle after this start your first one mild, like Winny only or add some prop in there. Continue with the same prigram as your build strength in your joints, muscles and tendons.

Thanks, that is certainly good advice but that's not what this post is about. I am asking about powerlifters who want to juice to get STRONGER. Did you read my first post? Dropping calories and doing cardio means not lifting as much weight as possible and that could mean not reaching the goals they have for the next powerlifting meet.

[sir.solidarity]

I thought the standard was no higher than 18%, shrug*

[sizzlechest]

Thanks, that is certainly good advice but that's not what this post is about. I am asking about powerlifters who want to juice to get STRONGER. Did you read my first post? Dropping calories and doing cardio means not lifting as much weight as possible and that could mean not reaching the goals they have for the next powerlifting meet.

I guess I missed it. I thought you were trying to cut. I thought for big guys you meant fat. If its for powelifting then size is good and ofcourse AAS come into play. Halo seems to be popular. Just look at this guys size:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkSN3f-a3Ok

[dec11]

Thanks, that is certainly good advice but that's not what this post is about. I am asking about powerlifters who want to juice to get STRONGER. Did you read my first post? Dropping calories and doing cardio means not lifting as much weight as possible and that could mean not reaching the goals they have for the next powerlifting meet.

that guy does not give 'good advice', and dont listen.

[BG]

I know a very good and pretty well known PL around here. He was fat and juiced. After a while his BP started going through the roof, blood shot eyes and head aches. He finally woke up and realized he had to lose weight and he did. Still just as strong if not better. You have to think about your long term health when it comes to using AS. Because down the road your dont want your regrets to be BIG regrets.

[BG]

that guy does not give 'good advice', and dont listen.

I agree, I know guys that cut weight to get down weight classes and do very well.

[dec11]

I know a very good and pretty well known PL around here. He was fat and juiced. After a while his BP started going through the roof, blood shot eyes and head aches. He finally woke up and realized he had to lose weight and he did. Still just as strong if not better. You have to think about your long term health when it comes to using AS. Because down the road your dont want your regrets to be BIG regrets.

exactly, being fat and powerlifting is counter productive. why not strip the fat and move down a weight class were you'd be more dominant?! carrying the fat doesnt make any sense at all

[Doctapeppa]

Good points. Thanks for the info. I know you guys think I'm secretly a fat powerlifter that wants to juice, but I'm really not.

[Addictive]

Also, one more thing about the higher bodyfat. We want to know if they're dedicated to lose the weight instead of just using AAS for a short cut. Which will just be a waste of money if they don't have diet in check, etc.

[dec11]

Good points. Thanks for the info. I know you guys think I'm secretly a fat powerlifter that wants to juice, but I'm really not.

no, not at all, i was just using an example to show that plifters have no excuse to carry bf, i competed at 75kg class for most of my plifting years and i was around 9-10% bf then. i gave up smoking and weight piled on with a substantial bf gain, putting me into 90kg with around 15-16% bf class and i wasnt lifting an awful lot more than i was at 75kgs

[War729]

In short many people that are more than 20% bf are using gear. Might not be the healthiest thing in the world but neither is using gear. Power lifters use it for obvious reasons and bodybuilders have a huge amount of body fat when off season mimicking the look of a power lifter

[dec11]

In short many people that are more than 20% bf are using gear. Might not be the healthiest thing in the world but neither is using gear. Power lifters use it for obvious reasons and bodybuilders have a huge amount of body fat when off season mimicking the look of a power lifter

you may be wide of the mark there mate

[MR10X]

In short many people that are more than 20% bf are using gear. Might not be the healthiest thing in the world but neither is using gear. Power lifters use it for obvious reasons and bodybuilders have a huge amount of body fat when off season mimicking the look of a power lifter

Thats been my observation also.most people that are trying to gain bulk are usually carrying more body fat.Some people have a hard time gaining fat,and stay lean even when are consuming a lot of calories,but they are the exception...

[5x10]

its a bs myth about the estro for fat people
it might happen, but not enough to counter act the super high levels of test

ive been in the higher bf range, aprox 20%, and have gotten leaner every cycle
main things to look out for
blood pressure
cholesterol, lipids
and do cardio

[Sgt. Hartman]

its a bs myth about the estro for fat people
it might happen, but not enough to counter act the super high levels of test

ive been in the higher bf range, aprox 20%, and have gotten leaner every cycle
main things to look out for
blood pressure
cholesterol, lipids
and do cardio

Actually it's not a myth. The aromatase enzyme that converts excess T to E is primarily located in adipose tissue. More body fat = more aromatase enzyme. More aromatase + high levels test = more estrogen.

Look it up.