PLEASE tell me it isnt true! AAS and the brain

[Wayacrucis]

I am gonna cut quick to the chase. I am a 3rd year bio med major/ amateur bodybuilder. I am 24 years old and have been cycling on and off, sometimes cruising in between cuts and bulks, I consider myself a heavy user.

Ive always been one of the guys that used deca, tren, drol, etc without any heavy sides. In fact I am currently on 1g test e with 500 tren e, great sex drive, zero acne just minor night sweats and a bit of shortness of breath. Now, back to topic - Ive noticed recently that I've become stupid. Literally over the last year or so, my memory and learning ablitiy has been greatly hindered hand to hand with my muscle gains and of course higher doses of AAS. My marks are suffering. Ill study for almost 3 hours in the morning, and my memory in correlation to what I read and learned at the time becomes very vivid by the next morning. In essence, I am incapable of learning and memorizing. Evidently I am studying complex courses with a very large quantity of work load and contents to memirize, but I just cant do it anymore. I feel like after I grasp or memorize a topic, my brain just lets it go, almost as if my brain cannot store the memory.

Ive read studies that assert AAS impact sections of the brain that are plasuible for memory and learning. Albeit all the studies are on animals or seem somewhat inconplete and vagur. Guys I ak going absolutely crazy, I feel like ive destroyed my future with AAS. Id greatly appreciate any input on this matter from some mods or vets.

[stevey_6t9]

link to studies?

[auswest]

While you are sleeping your brain sorts, stores and erases information depending on importance from the day gone. If your aas use is severely interrupting your sleep, which it probably will be to some degree then your brain will not do it's thing...
Just throwing ideas out there that seem logical to me.

[superme11]

Arnold doesn't seam that stupid to me :P

[superme11]

I heard about a simi-like research, but the end result was that your brain recover its full abilities with in few months after cleaning your system from roids. I'm not an expert in this matter but thats what i recall.

[dec11]

i'd highly doubt it, ive a memory like an elephant and the grey matter is in tip top shape, ive had alot more mind fvcking substances than AAS in my time.

however, if my sleep is pattern is sketchy for a bit, i feel as dumb as a box of rocks

[dec11]

Arnold doesn't seam that stupid to me :P

ah, but he is a cyborg, dont you know? lol

[chuckt12345]

my memory sucks but i think its from drinking over half my life. I think ive seen studies about guys with higher test levels being slower but no clue if thats legit.

[Times Roman]

links?

else might have to raise the BS flag. =)

[spywizard]

what's that smell???

[dec11]

were you licking any amphibians recently?

[MR-FQ320]

you sure it not just 'brain fog', just a temporary thing I suffered from while on.

[Johny-too-small]

Its not the anabolics. I make a living using my brain. Youre polly just burned out. Eat some fruit....apples. Sugars from fruits feed your brain.

[scorpion62]

Jan 29, 2010 | By Liz Stannard Liz Stannard has her bachelor's of science degree in neuroscience, with minors in classics and Japanese. She has been a freelance writer for five years, covering women's health, politics and medicine.
The brain naturally produces steroids, which are used in normal brain functions and regulation. Anabolic steroids, however, are manufactured chemicals that are taken orally or through an injection. This type of steroid resembles testosterone and increases a person's muscle size; anabolic steroids are also the type of steroid that causes side effects in the brain. Some of the side effects, especially those caused by abnormal hormone levels, are irreversible, according to the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA).

Emotional Changes
When a person uses anabolic steroids, the chemicals interfere in the normal function of the limbic system, which is located in the temporal lobe in the brain. Part of the limbic system is the amygdala, which is involved in emotional behavior. NIDA notes that synthetic steroids cause aggressive behavior, which is colloquially referred to as "roid rage." The Connecticut Clearinghouse adds that anabolic steroid users are prone to mood swings, violent behavior and psychotic symptoms, which include hallucinations and delusions.

Impaired Thinking
The hippocampus, which is responsible for converting short-term memories into long-term memories, is also part of the limbic system and is affected by anabolic steroid use. People who use steroids experience problems with learning and memory. Users also have impaired judgment.

Hypothalamus Interference
Another area of the brain affected by anabolic steroid use is the hypothalamus, which is another part of the limbic system. The hypothalamus is the "regulator" in the brain, and maintains normal function in the brain. One side effect of steroid use is disrupted hormone levels. NIDA states that men who use steroids have abnormal testosterone production, which results in smaller testes and hair loss; female users experience no period, scalp hair loss, deeper voice, and increased body and facial hair. The hair and voice changes are irreversible.

[dec11]

Jan 29, 2010 | By Liz Stannard Liz Stannard has her bachelor's of science degree in neuroscience, with minors in classics and Japanese. She has been a freelance writer for five years, covering women's health, politics and medicine.
The brain naturally produces steroids, which are used in normal brain functions and regulation. Anabolic steroids, however, are manufactured chemicals that are taken orally or through an injection. This type of steroid resembles testosterone and increases a person's muscle size; anabolic steroids are also the type of steroid that causes side effects in the brain. Some of the side effects, especially those caused by abnormal hormone levels, are irreversible, according to the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA).

Emotional Changes
When a person uses anabolic steroids, the chemicals interfere in the normal function of the limbic system, which is located in the temporal lobe in the brain. Part of the limbic system is the amygdala, which is involved in emotional behavior. NIDA notes that synthetic steroids cause aggressive behavior, which is colloquially referred to as "roid rage." The Connecticut Clearinghouse adds that anabolic steroid users are prone to mood swings, violent behavior and psychotic symptoms, which include hallucinations and delusions.

Impaired Thinking
The hippocampus, which is responsible for converting short-term memories into long-term memories, is also part of the limbic system and is affected by anabolic steroid use. People who use steroids experience problems with learning and memory. Users also have impaired judgment.

Hypothalamus Interference
Another area of the brain affected by anabolic steroid use is the hypothalamus, which is another part of the limbic system. The hypothalamus is the "regulator" in the brain, and maintains normal function in the brain. One side effect of steroid use is disrupted hormone levels. NIDA states that men who use steroids have abnormal testosterone production, which results in smaller testes and hair loss; female users experience no period, scalp hair loss, deeper voice, and increased body and facial hair. The hair and voice changes are irreversible.

that just sounds like her personal thoughts mate. we already know that alot of what is mentioned here is BS. i can still rem events of my life from 3yrs of age.

[Times Roman]

^ OK. that's a good first step. It's an article. Liz Stannard has a BS degree. Pretty vanilla. What I would really like to see, besides her opinion, are some links to some clinical studies, peer reviewed articles, that sort of thing.

[dec11]

^ OK. that's a good first step. It's an article. Liz Stannard has a BS degree. Pretty vanilla. What I would really like to see, besides her opinion, are some links to some clinical studies, peer reviewed articles, that sort of thing.

i reckon we dont need studies, i think there is alot of living proof on this forum.

[JohnnyVegas]

While you are sleeping your brain sorts, stores and erases information depending on importance from the day gone. If your aas use is severely interrupting your sleep, which it probably will be to some degree then your brain will not do it's thing...
Just throwing ideas out there that seem logical to me.

This thread seems to be bunk, but I will say I have been having this problem lately. Constant sleep interruptions (sweats, weird dreams, general insomnia) have put me in a constant state of exhaustion despite having decent energy during the day. I feel good, but I am fuzzy, and will fall asleep if I close my eyes and relax for a minute.

[Times Roman]

I'm a details guy. I like to be able to read the clinical data and come up with my own conclusions.....

[dec11]

This thread seems to be bunk, but I will say I have been having this problem lately. Constant sleep interruptions (sweats, weird dreams, general insomnia) have put me in a constant state of exhaustion despite having decent energy during the day. I feel good, but I am fuzzy, and will fall asleep if I close my eyes and relax for a minute.

i get periodic patterns like this and i had them long before ever using AAS. so for that reason i dont connect them

I'm a details guy. I like to be able to read the clinical data and come up with my own conclusions.....

yeah but think about, how many studies would there be under the title of, 'right lets take an incredibly intelligent person and stick 'em on AAS and see how stupid they get'. lol, ya get me?

[chuckt12345]

yup,, thats what sucks about aas when we use them like we do,, not really gonna be detailed scientific clinicals behind any of it. Trial and error lab rats here.

[Times Roman]

^ I don't know.... they use AAS for wasting diseases and AIDS, so there are clinical studies out there. In those studies, there could also be other elements, such as cognitive abilities over a period of time.... I don't know, but one thing I've learned is that it is always better to have data as opposed to someone with a vanilla BS degree giving us their opinion.

[chuckt12345]

^ I don't know.... they use AAS for wasting diseases and AIDS, so there are clinical studies out there. In those studies, there could also be other elements, such as cognitive abilities over a period of time.... I don't know, but one thing I've learned is that it is always better to have data as opposed to someone with a vanilla BS degree giving us their opinion.

Yea their are clinical stuides for every pharm drug out there but do they do them for doses way above prescription?

[dec11]

^ I don't know.... they use AAS for wasting diseases and AIDS, so there are clinical studies out there. In those studies, there could also be other elements, such as cognitive abilities over a period of time.... I don't know, but one thing I've learned is that it is always better to have data as opposed to someone with a vanilla BS degree giving us their opinion.

ive a gut feeling that anything studying this will be 'ifs' and 'maybes'. think of alot of longterm and heavy users on here, i cant honestly think of one who cant express himself/herself in an educated and intelligent manner.

also not sure if the doses for patients like you describe would be the same as in muscle building doses and if they have chronic wasting diseases, would the disease itself not be the determining factor?

[chuckt12345]

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2010/s2821451.htm

then i read another study saying low test is not good for memory

[dec11]

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2010/s2821451.htm

then i read another study saying low test is not good for memory

i can imagine, low test fvcked everything up for me from the stand point of being so depressed i couldnt think of anything else

[scorpion62]

^ I don't know.... they use AAS for wasting diseases and AIDS, so there are clinical studies out there. In those studies, there could also be other elements, such as cognitive abilities over a period of time.... I don't know, but one thing I've learned is that it is always better to have data as opposed to someone with a vanilla BS degree giving us their opinion.

Times I only put her name up to show that she had wrote it and I know that we are aware of the sides of steriods in my opinion rec drugs and alcohol are far worse to the brain than steriods, I apologize for putting a BS post next time I will take better care when I have brain freeze due to the High test cycle I am doing lol

[scorpion62]

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2010/s2821451.htm

then i read another study saying low test is not good for memory

I agree 100% my test was low and for years I felt like Sh1t

[dec11]

Times I only put her name up to show that she had wrote it and I know that we are aware of the sides of steriods in my opinion rec drugs and alcohol are far worse to the brain than steriods, I apologize for putting a BS post next time I will take better care when I have brain freeze due to the High test cycle I am doing lol

amen, i made some stupid fvcking decisions when i went through that phase of my life. now that i dont even drink anymore, im alot sharper

[scorpion62]

amen, i made some stupid fvcking decisions when i went through that phase of my life. now that i dont even drink anymore, im alot sharper

Same mate staying on the good side of life

[Nooomoto]

I definitely feel more ape-like while on gear, not as quick witted perhaps. I also definitely return to normal not long after the cycle is over. That being said, that's just me and is by no means a scientific measure of anything. This lady's article doesn't really have any meat to it. She just made some statements and didn't do much in the way of backing them up or even providing citation. Notice she has a bachelors degree in neuroscience and is now a writer. Come on!

[JohnnyVegas]

i get periodic patterns like this and i had them long before ever using AAS. so for that reason i dont connect them.

Me too. I had problems with insomnia in high school as well. In this case AAS is just amplifying the problem. Allowing my dogs to sleep on the bed contribute as well, so I am not saying AAS is the cause. But damn, waking up in a puddle of sweat makes it hard to sleep.

[dec11]

Me too. I had problems with insomnia in high school as well. In this case AAS is just amplifying the problem. Allowing my dogs to sleep on the bed contribute as well, so I am not saying AAS is the cause. But damn, waking up in a puddle of sweat makes it hard to sleep.

i hear you on the animals, one of our two cats always comes up the bed and head butts me looking for attention, they're a breed thats very bonded with their owners and i havent the heart to lock them out of the room.

[Wayacrucis]

I dont see why anyone would be inclined to believe this is a bunk thread. Anyhow, the word stupid was evidently over exageratted. I just returned to school after a one year break. Before school I didn't notice anything.

This topic needs to be assesed logically. I never said AAS lowers IQ, but if you google " AAS and the brain" almost every site asserts that - the limbic system is influenced by AAS. Thr limbic system plays a predominant role in converting short term memories into long ones and learning capacity. Most people that use AAS arnt in school, so the chances of them noticing such change within the duration of their cycle is unlikley. In addition, the impairment is evidently not too extreme. The studies suggest that it "impairs" not "disable" memory and learning functions. Unfortunately I only found one study and this entire assertion is given credit to by a single study on hamsters.

As I initially mentioned, my main issue is that once I study for several consecutive hours, by night time or next day I cannot completely recall the details of the topic I studied. Almost as if I obly have a very generalized idea of the topic, while everythonf else is vivid. This isnt being stupid, it just means my learning and ability to convert what I learned previously into long lasting memory is not nearly as good as before. Are AAS the culprit, I truley hope not, but Id like to know if anyone has found any studies on humans in regards to this matter.

[Times Roman]

ive a gut feeling that anything studying this will be 'ifs' and 'maybes'. think of alot of longterm and heavy users on here, i cant honestly think of one who cant express himself/herself in an educated and intelligent manner.

also not sure if the doses for patients like you describe would be the same as in muscle building doses and if they have chronic wasting diseases, would the disease itself not be the determining factor?

seems you have a point.

it's interesting. the "Big Bosnian" here is very affluent in AAS, and evidently so are all the doctors in Bosnia. They prescribe AAS for injuries, rehab, and for individuals in the athletic programs. it would be interesting to see some of their research papers on AAS. But it is a small country, with only 5mill people....

[smashingbox]

It's true that there have been studies showing that increased test levels correlates to reduction in certain intellectual capabilities. I have nothing to back this up but have heard this information repeated several times (including at university). Some symptoms of low test are similar to having high test, LDL/HCL imbalances etc, so for sure it is reasonable that low test might cause poor memory etc as well.

[chuckt12345]

wait, what were we talking about again?

[Honkey_Kong]

Wayacrucis, you said you're taking difficult courses. You can't expect to just whiz through those courses. I don't think the AAS are ruining your memory, you just need to dedicate more time to your studying. How much sleep are you getting per night? You living through a lot of extra stress?

[dec11]

It's true that there have been studies showing that increased test levels correlates to reduction in certain intellectual capabilities. I have nothing to back this up but have heard this information repeated several times (including at university). Some symptoms of low test are similar to having high test, LDL/HCL imbalances etc, so for sure it is reasonable that low test might cause poor memory etc as well.

stupid statement then, aint it?

[dec11]

seems you have a point.

it's interesting. the "Big Bosnian" here is very affluent in AAS, and evidently so are all the doctors in Bosnia. They prescribe AAS for injuries, rehab, and for individuals in the athletic programs. it would be interesting to see some of their research papers on AAS. But it is a small country, with only 5mill people....

its just another, 'it must be the AAS at fault' thread.

how many times have you seen threads like, 'my big toe hurts, is it the gear'? ppl will always seek to blame recent events for ailments, its human nature.

if it was true, then trt would equal stupid. if anything, i think alot more clearly now and applied myself better than ever to my degree and another professional course ive done in the past few years