Please explain HCG Monotherapy to me? Is viable option for mid 30's instead of TRT?

[WerewolfBaby]

Can you please explain what this is, how it works etc? How much HCG how often is standard protocol and for how long? Is there worry about Disensitizing? For mid 30's is this a viable option to try before TRT? To try to get your own production going, say is it possible to go from Low, below normal range like 200 TT to a bareable 450-500 TT possibly? IS a little AI usually prescribed to keep E2 in check?

Is the monothereapy forever, or like for a few months? IS a SERM sometimes used afterwords to get T raised and help the reboot?


Can someone explain why HCG and SERM are never used together I guess?

Thank you

[steroid.com 1]

Ok, I will respond.

hCG as a monotherapy is largely ineffective to increase Testosterone to optimal levels. Yes, it will increase some natural production but if you are Primary hypogonadal forget it...if secondary, it will increase but as noted slightly.

Generally, no AI is prescribed but E2 needs to be checked regularly any way.

You will not see any real HPTA suppression as well.

If you are below normal you will be much better served with exogenous testosterone in a cream/gel or injection.

[WerewolfBaby]

Ok, thank you for the reply.

I have been reading up more.

Based on the fact 10 mg/day of Nolva for 10 days had a felt response of somewhat raising my T (combined with a tiny bit, like .25 of Arimidex evey3rd) I believe and hope I am secondary.

So I think that HCG Mono might work for me, either as a Restart (3 months of HCG mono) and if HCG stops working as good as it seems to in many cases I may then consider doing Nolva for a month see if that helps Restart. If the HCG Mono seems to work well, after labs done in 2-3 months, I will continue doing it and dialing it in.

I will be starting at 250 iu E3D. I will use a bit of Dex on the same days....between .30-.50 based on feel. My Starting E2 was a very high 51, so I do believe I have a high Aromatization rate, and my big belly my entire life regardless of level of working out makes me believe that as well 5'11" 230 lbs burly, huge arms,chest, quads, but Fat belly. HCG might eventually be raised as high as 350 iu E3rd....what are you thoughts on that?

I am also using Zinc+Min to help control E2, and that had a felt effect before doing the little Nolva test (I prefered that over Clomid), plus I am 34....so if I respond to HCG after a few weeks will confirm I am 2ndary.

Do you think the conservative .30 Dex E3D is good, or do you think .5 would be better? Or stay at .3 and go off of feel if I need to bump Up (by morning wood, libido I have been told, emotionality)....I have been given that leeway. I often feel like the boards have better knowledge that at the Anti Aging clinic, and like to double check everything.

Also, the labs run at my Anti-Aging clinic I am not thrilled with, plus the clinic charges separate fee than the lab. They also did not Run my LH or FSH which they said they don't do, which seems very crazy to me.

Is there somewhere I can have my own labs run in 2-3 months? That doesn't need a Dr. order? Do they send you like a blood collection kit or what? Can you go direct to a big lab like Quest for that, or are they only thru Dr. order? Where can I go online to get labs? thank you.

Finally, If HCG Mono works pretty well but doesn't get your test up high enough.....is there any benefit to kind of Staying on that and just adding a tiny bit, say 75 mg of Test C injection (I think I would prefer that to GEL, fear or absorption rates, sweating it out Grappling, I sweat a lot, yet have thick skin dry, getting diff amounts delivered) and staying on the E3rd schedule, or switching over to full HRT/TRT Crisler type protocol and doing day 5/6, shoot Test day 7 (probably 100-125 mg Test C)?


Thank you for any thoughts or answers on any of my questions....Please respond

[flatscat]

what are your stats now and most recent lab results? or are you just going off "feel"?

[Vettester]

Let's start with your baseline labs ... What were your lab scores on Test, LH, FSH, etc ... Before you started?

This gets a bit confusing, because on one hand you are talking about taking HCG and/or exogenous test for TRT, but then on the other hand you're talking about SERM's and rebooting your natural production. So, are you saying that you are shutdown, but capable of restarting your HPTA? You've ruled out that your condition isn't primary?

SERMS like Clomid and Nolva compete for the estrogen receptors within the hypathalumus, causing it to produce GnRH, which thereafter stimulates the pituitary to produce more LH and FSH, which then triggers the feeback loop to signal the testes to produce endogenous testosterone. HCG mimics LH, but it does not contribute to the HPTA triggering LH or FSH via the pituitary gland. So, you have two compounds doing two different things.

In my case, my HPTA is shutdown. I was diagnosed as secondary hypogonadism at 41. My LH was (I believe) was at 1.8. There is no restarting for me, that's just the course my body took. After adding exogenous test and HCG, my LH went down further to 2>. So I went from 80% suppressed to 99%, but that's OK, I wasn't going to improve, and I excepted the fact that I will be HRT for the rest of my life.

[WerewolfBaby]

TT 202, 212, 385 depending on what range used.
E2 51.4
DHEA 165.4
Dihydro 46.71
SHBG 28
Free Test 9.62
Pregnenlone A WHOPPING 648 AND i CANT GET ANSWERS ABOUT THAT, WHERE IS THAT ALL GOING EXCEPT SOME TO E2 which doesn't explain it all?
Cortisol 15.8 on a 4-22 scale.....I don't know if that is good, just ok, should be lower or higher or what? thanks

I have been on Zinc and Min plus Dex to control e2. Thyroid Energy/L-Tryosine 1000 mg to jumpstart thryoid

2 yrs ago my TT was 312, then a bit later 500....so I know my baseline is low, and probably gotten lower.

Is it worth to try a Restart doing HCG, then switching to Nolva, see if I can get my TT to 500?.....or should I do HCG Mono for 3 months and retest, maybe meet with Dr. John in person when i can go in April....and stick with HCG mono if good or go HRT+HCG Crisler protocol than if need be? I have Lupus/fatigue so Higher T would help combat that IMO. (Yes, I did do one 9 week cycle Sustanon+Deca over 6 months ago to see what it felt like-part of my problem maybe is from that and too short a PCT (and should not have messed with Deca-but wanted to see if helped with hand pain), but not all of my problem as you see my TT was low anyway beforehand.) I am only 34, so if my balls can give me Extra T with the help of HCG, I figure I should get what I can from there first, than add Exo T on top only if need be.

But if you have advise on if a Restart might even be worth it, please let me know. I am not trying to be a bodybuilder....just want better quality of life and able to teach/train MMA/Grappling 2 days per week.

[WerewolfBaby]

I am also taking Micro DHEA 25 mg fyi now

They should have run my FSH and LH right? Without that, can I tell if I am secondary? I mean based on the 10 days of 10 mg Nolva I did.....and now doing HCG...won't I be able to tell within a couple of weeks if my Testosterone is going up by feel and HCG mono or even Restarts are options for me? Wouldn't that mean my HPTA is not totally shut down and I am secondary?

I am not totally comfortable with my anti aging clinic since she does not and will not run FSH and LH

In case I didn't say, my nuts have never Atrophied, and therefore think nice low dose 250 iu at a time will work, as well as from all I have read many do better when they lower there doses. if E3rd is enough at this low dose is a question I have, but many feel that is best dosing schedule.

[Vettester]

It doesn't sound like anyone ever ran the LH/FSH lab before you got on therapy. Again, if you have a primary condition then HCG or any of the SERMs are kind of redundant. If you are secondary, then someone should have been looking into an MRI for you before anything else. You mentioned the test/deca cycle ... That combo alone can shutdown the HPTA really hard. Good chance your LH/FSH scores will be in the basement due to everything going on, so trying to rely on it now as the basis of being primary or secondary is going to be a little difficult.

The other concern I see is that you stated that you haven't experienced any atrophy issues with your testes. Again, that makes one wonder where the origin of the problem really is.

IMO, your biggest problem is your doctor. My advise is to do what you mentioned by going to visit Dr. John. Everything you are doing right now is just shooting in the dark. Trying to restart something that can't be restarted is pointless, unless you know for sure what options will truly work for you. The doctor also needs to look at your pregnenolone situation. I remember reading somewhere (don't hold me to finding it) that high pregnenolone could be caused by testicular complications and/or adrenal problems. Maybe I read that here, dunno ... Regardless, one more good reason to really focus on this with a quality doctor like Dr. John, or someone of that caliber. We can throw a thousand guesses your way, but the route is to get some facts and answers about your body so that you can start medicating properly.

PS: What was jump starting your thyroid all about?

[Vettester]

Also, were you a hairy child at birth?? Just curious about the screen name. And no, I didn't turn into a Corvette when I became a man (although that might be kind of fun)-LOL

[WerewolfBaby]

Thank you very much for your responses. Would I need an MRI of my patuitary or my balls?

I do have a hairy big chest, always did, and Went from Obese until 6th grade, to super muscular by 8th grade with weight lifting. It is also a play on my fighting nickname, which is also a ironic play now that I have Lupus.

If I start responding to HCG that would be a good thing though right?

And so the Super High Preg could be a serious issue then right? which has been what I am thinking, even my high E2 wouldn't account for where it is all going

My TSH is now 4.06....so started on Thyroid Power by Now 1000 mg L-Tyosene plus other good stuff. Over reacted 2 yrs ago to Synthroid went from 3.86 to .14 in ER with chest pain

[jandj]

how were your levels before the test deca cycle? how did your pct look like?

[jandj]

how much rest and deca?