How arnold built this chest

[the next big thing]

Hi guys

most of you guys will have read the march issue of flex the article on how arnold built that massive chest well i finished cycle 3 weeks ago not lost much strengh but took of 5kg in weight will start next cycle begining of may which will be

sus 250 500mg week 1 to 6
test eth 250mg week 1 to 4
durabolin 750mg week 1 to 6
dbol 15mg week 1 to 4
use clen weeks 7 8 9.

i am planing on doing arnolds double split routine which will be a fucking killer but man i am up for it big time have got all my gear and extra stocking up on tuna steak and chicken the clock is ticking.
stats at the moment
weight 200
b/f 12%
bench 320 6reps
squat 440 8reps
close grip tri 270 6reps
what do you guys think, am i a psyco trying arnolds routine.

[sd11]

IMO a double split is not the best idea and that cycle needs a lot of work!

[the next big thing]

Originally posted by sd11
IMO a double split is not the best idea and that cycle needs a lot of work!

ok give me some info on how to make my cycle work better the more input the better.
thanks

[OGPackin]

Hey bro, im not in the best mood this morning so i'll make this short. Ur cycle sucks! U need to run test atleast 10 weeks, 12 being better. And theres no reason to run the Sust and Enant in the same cycle. Unless ur idea is to use the Prop in the Sust as a kick start. But i dont recommend that. Pick one or the other. Dont run both! How many cycles have u done? Why in the world would u run 750mgs of deca? And how are u going to dose that out when deca comes in 50mgs, 100mgs, 200mgs and 300mgs? If i were u id go back and do somemore research bro. But if u wanna run it run it like this....

weeks 1 - 4 35mgs dbol ed
weeks 1 - 10 400mgs deca
weeks 1 - 12 500mgs enant

OG

[painintheazz]

Ouch OG, little cranky I see, But I still agree with you. Your cycle is way too short do something like OGbitchin I mean packin said. LOL I would run the deca to week 12.

Pain

[mammoth]

Stay away from what you read in FLEX magazine. IMO it is the most biased and one-sided magazine ever created. The routines that are posted are half the time just simply written by the editors based on the Weider principles. Also, take note that the IFBB pros get paid to train and they have the time to do these kinds of splits. Working class people don't always have the time to do these routines and aside from that we usually don't have the time to rest in between same-day sessions.

On another note, If you don't have a training routine down pat then you shouldn't start juicing. Its one thing to maybe increase your intensity or frequency due to the speedy recovery brought on by gear but you should already know how to train your body BEFORE you decide to juice. I am not saying that you don't have the experience or knowledge.

A double split routine is very hard to follow and you must be VERY dedicated in order for it to be effective. I personally think that it is cause for gross overtraining, and is counter-productive. Stick with a more basic routine and work your way up.

Your cycle seems weird to me. Just a few obsevations listed below:

1. Length of cycle is too short.
2. Dosages are low except for the durabolin which is high compared to the others.
3. Get rid of one of the Test's. If you run both of them at necessary dosages I think it would be too much (IMO).

Try this:

Sust @ 750mg / week 1-10
Deca @ 400mg / week 1-10
d-bol @ 30mg / week 1-6 doses divided up throughout the day

Keep Nolvadex, bromo on hand, and make sure you follow up with clomid three weeks after last deca shot.

Do some more research, hit the gym and find a routine that suits you. Don't experiment too much during a cycle. It can be a tremendous waste of time and money. Good luck and best of progress!

[mammoth]

Damn all that typing and in the meantime OG and pain beat me too it! Dammit!

[the next big thing]

thanks guys
used eth and sus last cycle got great results eth to keep my test levels up but find that sus gives me a far better kick than eth and did not get any water of the sus you are right on the deca the 750 was a mistake it will be 400mg a week have been experimenting with cycles the last couple of years guess i have a lot to learn have never used any kind of anti estrogen have never had the need so far and have never had any problems, this could be due to the short cycles i use and have never realy lost more than 10 or 20 pounds of my max while of cycle anyway guys any ideas would be more than wellcome.
thanks.

[tolinka]

Dont forget clomid at the end of a cycle.

[monstercojones]

unless you have freaky amazing genetics, then dont do arnolds routine. the other bros have done a good job helping you with your cycle, now i am gonna help you with that routine. do not try it. arnold had amazing genetics naturally and could get away with improper dieting and training. 99% of the rest of us are not so lucky. arnold overtrained, its a simple fact, dont make the same mistake that he did simply because it worked for him, he is the expception, not the rule.

[Rhino58]

well put monster.

[the next big thing]

no i dont have freaky genetics but never say never and if i dont at least try i will never know, look guys i am not saying that i am going to do the same as arnold because nobody can my routine will be built around it the main part off it will be the chest workout whitch i will hit every fourth day hard and that wont be a problem for me as my chest and arms are my greatest assets i dont work at the moment so time is not a problem and i sleep almost every afternoon for a couple of hours this has been well thought out, have been training six on one of for the past sixteen months and now feel i am ready to push that bit harder you might wonder how i can afford to live this way because its the way i like it wake up every morning excited about training and that is a big factor in my life happy doing what i do i work a few nights a week on the door of a bar that gets the money i need for my training and gear one other thing the mind is a strong tool use it the right way and anything is possible.
thanks
its never over till its over.

[monstercojones]

good luck bro, dont burn yourself out. and make sure to take in enough calories to compensate for all that you're burning with that split.

[Buddha_Red]

people can get results from anything if they work hard enough at it.

i totally agree that some people will get huge because of genetics, arnold had much more than a body going for him.

Do not get me wrong, props to arnold in every way, but there have
been much bigger, better defined peeps that just couldnt be him.

Its important to have goals so, work for arnold's body and see how you turn out.

if you feel yourself too tired, not gaining or getting results slowly add rest into your splits. If your split or diet isnt working, change it!

good info on this thread, lets just make sure that we dont use the genetics card so much that it becomes a crutch.

no one is doing that, and wanna make sure peeps arent. We are in this lifestyle to be the very best we can be.

go for it, reach for your goals and learn from every step.

[Iceburg]

... Maybe the weird looking cycle threw me off ...

... but you seem to have a good attitude and have though it out ...

... now only one thing left to do bro ... hit those f'n weights HARD.

... yes that routine won't work well for everyone, but you won't know how well it will work for you ... untill you try it. Yes there are guidlines and principals that should be incorporated in your training, but you should know better that anyone what you can and can't handle.

Good Luck


... and take OGP's or mammoth's advice for the cycle - those were much better than yours.

[Sicilian30]

Listen to what the bro's say here. man.. cycle is too short.. waste of money.

[Lift Chief]

I tried arnold's 5 sets of 5 exercises per body part type routine and it was way over training... i can't even imagine how overtrained the average person would be if they tried to do this type of thing 2 times per day.

If you don't have Arnold's genetics don't do Arnold's workouts.

[anadrolavenger]

yeah man stick to the basics...
lengthen your cycle, i would choose enanthate, and up your dbol to 35mg day....
if you are trying arnolds split it only tells me one thing.....
you havent been lifting long enough to know what works for you, so in turn that makes me think you havent reached your natural potential yet so why juice b4 you have hit your bodies natural max??

[MR BICEPS]

I did arnolds routine for 6 months when I was 16 years of age. To beat it all I was totally natural. Due to this routine I developed joint problems that have plagued me 20 years later.

I shrunk and became weaker on this routine. I kept a headache and my muscle felt flat. I am an avid Arnold fan but I went through a period of hating his ASS when I found out he was using anabolics and acting all along like he only used steroids 8 weeks before a competition. Dont believe all this bullcrap! 12 to 20 sets once a week per bodypart is optimum for anyone. Forget Arnold program! It was his genetics!

[Rickson]

You have to understand that Arnold was a genetic freak. Very few people can do his workout and grow from it. Most people would be horribly overtrained and unless you have great genetics you will be also.

[the next big thing]

i just wish all you guys would stop useing genetics as an excuse for your short falls it is bullshit, practice makes perfect i train everyday and even when i dont juice i still train harder and lift more than most of the guys in the gym who are juiceing, and i do know what works for me last year i tried the 20 sets per bodypart at one bodypart per day and it worked for me got pain in joints hey but if you cant handle a bit of pain dont do it, no pain no gain.
this realy worked wonders for my upper chest whitch has given me the start off the split between upper and lower chest and i can ripple it at will is this not what we all strive for i am not saying for one minute that i know more than anyone else but it works for me .
thanks.

[Jenseno9]

the whole argument here is what works for one might not work for someone else. So just listen to your body and if you feel like your getting overtrained then cut back a lil...goodluck
Jens

[the next big thing]

thats exactly what i am saying good call bro

[MR BICEPS]

I'ts also possible some people respond better to steroids than others. Arnold may have been one of those guys.
I'm not saying this type of training cannot work because it obviously can for some people. However if it hurts your joints then you may end up losing everything while recovering from an injury. Even worse it may limit you from ever doing specific exercises in the future because it aggravates your now joint problem.
It's very possible Arnold would have been just as big or bigger if he had followed a lower volume approach. I personally think his routines are over kill for anyone in the offseason who's trying to gain maximum muscle mass.

[Lift Chief]

Originally posted by the next big thing
i just wish all you guys would stop useing genetics as an excuse for your short falls it is bullshit, practice makes perfect i train everyday and even when i dont juice i still train harder and lift more than most of the guys in the gym who are juiceing, and i do know what works for me last year i tried the 20 sets per bodypart at one bodypart per day and it worked for me got pain in joints hey but if you cant handle a bit of pain dont do it, no pain no gain.
this realy worked wonders for my upper chest whitch has given me the start off the split between upper and lower chest and i can ripple it at will is this not what we all strive for i am not saying for one minute that i know more than anyone else but it works for me .
thanks.

Genetics is not an excuse... it's a physiological fact that affects all aspects of our bodies. How we respond to training, dieting, etc.

You can't keep doing a routine that is overtraining you- or "practicing" it- and think you're going to magicly stop being in an overtrained state... it doesn't work like that.

It's about working smarter not harder- but if you feel like doing 20 sets per muscle is going to make you grow then go for it.

[the next big thing]

the thing is people who say well i have not got the genetics are giving up before they start how do they know if they never try everyone has genetics thats how they were formed just some are better than others on the other hand overtraining 4 sets might be overtraining for some people 8 for others 10 15 20 the list goes on i personally find doing 4 light sets and then 6 medium sets is what i need to just get the blood pumping the more i do the better it feels the more input the better would like to hear more from you guys out there on your diffrent methods allways willing to learn more if it helps my training
thanks.
its never over till its over.

[Tanksta]

I've tried and tried to develop my chest. Everything else seems to grow, but I lack the edge to build a nice cup. I do chest once a week, alternating incline/flatbench, barbell/dumbells, etc. Maybe I will never have a nice chest, but looking at Arnold still gets me jealous :-)

[Rsox1]

I think that people have overthought training its real simple heavy intense and brutal, I think that even somone with the worst genetics could lift with arnolds program, call me dumb, call me ignorant, call me the anti-mentzer but if your on a good gear cycle, there is no such thing as overtraining just under-resting

[MR BICEPS]

TANKSTA you should try 15 degree decline press and flat fles for that cup. It's worked for many including my self. Perform 4 to 5 sets of declines and 4 to 5 sets of flat flyes twice a week and get ready to grow!

[Tanksta]

Mr. Biceps, thanks for the advice. I was thinking, besides my normal Monday heavy chest workout, to add another small chest routine on Thursdays after Shoulders. I do decline every other week, usually a fairly steep decline. It looks like I'm just not doing it enough to achieve a nice cup. I will try the method you recommended, and keep you guys posted. Thanks!

[flexshack]

Originally posted by MR BICEPS
TANKSTA you should try 15 degree decline press and flat fles for that cup. It's worked for many including my self. Perform 4 to 5 sets of declines and 4 to 5 sets of flat flyes twice a week and get ready to grow!

how steep is 15 degrees? please don't laugh at me, i was never very good in geometry. do you use dumbbells for this or a bar? also, will sitting flies on the fly machine work just as well as flat flies? thanks.

[the next big thing]

Originally posted by Rsox1
I think that people have overthought training its real simple heavy intense and brutal, I think that even somone with the worst genetics could lift with arnolds program, call me dumb, call me ignorant, call me the anti-mentzer but if your on a good gear cycle, there is no such th
ing as overtraining just under-resting

thats true bro got to addmit when you have the best of gear you can train anytime when i am on a cycle i never get tired i could train 2 hours in the morning and go back at night and do another 2 hours no problem there is no such thing as overtraining when you are on gear thats why we use the stuff so we can train harder and longer well thats my therory
thanks

[MDMA]

Id give my right nut for a chest/calves like Arnolds

[MR BICEPS]

I heard Arnold had calf inplants. I dont know for sure but they where awful puny in the CONAN movies. Then in Twins they where huge! Makes one wonder how he made the improvements?????

[chinups]

I read the article about arnolds workout this morning and let me tell you something, he is DA MAN. He seems to be a very intense person and his workouts reflect it. I for one will try the chest-back workout that was featured in the flex feb issue it is sick........BOW TO ARNOLD!!!!

[the next big thing]

yea king arnold rules supreme and i would like to think 100 years from now people will still be talking and trying arnolds workouts because he is numero uno
its never over till its over.

[Lift Chief]

Originally posted by Rsox1
I think that people have overthought training its real simple heavy intense and brutal, I think that even somone with the worst genetics could lift with arnolds program, call me dumb, call me ignorant, call me the anti-mentzer but if your on a good gear cycle, there is no such thing as overtraining just under-resting

You can still over train when you're on gear.

It's not about being dumb or ignorant it's about being uninformed.

I have tried every possible number of sets- including arnold's workout... so i know, for me, that this type of workout is way over-training. I recently went to 4-6 sets to failure per body part- once every 6 days. And have experienced by far my best gains.

Every wonder why you see people at the gym and year after year they look the same size? That's because they're all doing what the magazines tell them to... how else are they going to be able to sell the next miracle supplement.

I would place a wager that if people would be open-minded about a low volume, high intensity routine and give it a try for a month- they'll never go back to the workouts they tell you to do in all those pretty magazines.

I'll bet those saying you "can't overtrain" are the ones that have never tried a modified HIT routine.

[Tock]

how steep is 15 degrees? please don't laugh at me, i was never very good in geometry.
========================

Ok, this is a 90 degree angle:

------------ 0
|\
| \
| \
| \
| \

90 45

. . . and the diagonal is 45 degrees. The 90 degree angle is divided into two (roughly) equal parts to get 2 45 degree angles (45+45=90).
Divide one of the 45 degree angles into three equal sections, and you will have 3 15 degree angles (15+15+15=45).
It's like brain surgery . . . easy once you know how . . .
--Tock

[Tock]

(gonna try this one more time with periods to make the angle stay put)
--Tock
------------------------------------------------------------------

how steep is 15 degrees? please don't laugh at me, i was never very good in geometry.
========================

Ok, this is a 90 degree angle:

------------ 0
|..\
|.... \
|....... \
|.......... \
|............. \

90................ \ 45

. . . and the diagonal is 45 degrees. The 90 degree angle is divided into two (roughly) equal parts to get 2 45 degree angles (45+45=90).
Divide one of the 45 degree angles into three equal sections, and you will have 3 15 degree angles (15+15+15=45).
It's like brain surgery . . . easy once you know how . . .
--Tock