Do I need to up my HCG dosage?

[forrest_and_trees]

I've been injecting 300 IUs of HCG 4 times a week; two days before I pin with 100mg [.5 ml] of Test twice a week. it's been about 6 months, and while if "feel" better mood wise, and my boys aren't as shriveled as they used to be, they're still not back to what they were before I began Test. Even more so, my loads are thick and next to nothing. Considering how much I'm already taking, will upping my HCG dosage anymore even help, or am I just SOL?

[Vettester]

Forrest, good to see you again! It's been awhile. Hmmm ... 300ius x 4/wk is pushing it pretty heavy already. I'm curious if you remember your original baseline scores when you started on HRT, and if the LH/FSH lab was high or low? What type of results were you seeing with it 6 months ago? Also, not sure how long you're keeping it refridgerated, but my nut gauge says that 50 days is about the range where the potency starts to noticeably drop off. Also, HCG needs to be handled with care, so hopefully you're not shaking the hell out of it or anything.

[forrest_and_trees]

Hey Vette-

Ya, i've been in maintenance mode and dealing with other matters, so haven't been around in a while.

As far as LH/FSH, I've never had them tested. I always get the Male Anti Aging panel and they're not included. I'm paying out of pocket as it is, and funds are ridiculously tight, so I just haven't done it. How necessary would it be at this point?

Going on Crisler's recommendations, he doesn't mention a weekly max, only that there's no point in taking more than 500iu a day, siting that it would be a waste since, "there is only just so much stimulation possible..." The only downside he mentions is increased amortization, but my E2 is lower than it's ever been, so that's not an issue. And considering people on the HCG Diet are taking 500iu a day, I wasn't too worried I was taking too much.

Based on my current dosages, one batch of HCG only lasts a month, so it shouldn't be loosing potency. I'm also carful to inject the Bac Water down the side of the vial and not make any bubbles. I even pre-fill my syringes the day I mix my HCG, and keep them refrigerate. That way I'm not constantly handling the vial or allowing the HCG to change temps a lot.

Any suggestions? Would it help to back off for a while or is there anything else I can take to help increase results? Also, I read somewhere else where guys with BPH due to TRT would having similar issues with their loads. Frankly, I haven't been urinating as strongly as I did before TRT, but my doc has never mentioned any concerns, so I haven't been to worried abut it.Is that an issue you're familiar with?

[Vettester]

Forrest, how effective was it when you first started on it? Did you see it gradually lose its effectiveness over the 6 months, or did it never really do much for you ever since you started it. Is it a possibility that your condition is primary? It's a shame nobody diagnosed this properly for you when you started out. As far as running the LH/FSH labs now, it will likely yield a score that is in the tank, due to your HPTA being fully shutdown from the exogenous testosterone treatments.

IMO, I don't think you will see tremendous changes by bumping your dosage up. 1,200iu a week should be more than enough to stimulate the testicles via the Leydig cells, permitting there's no gonadal damage or desensitization issues. Everyone is different, but in my case I see a huge difference at 750iu/wk (3x250iu). My Testosterone Cyp protocol dosage is now at 120mg/wk. My serum and free scores are equal to that of approx. 200mg/wk 'without' taking HCG. That's a 40% increase with my endogenous production by adding the HCG. Forrest, I could be wrong about the increased amount of HCG not working for you, and my best suggestion is for you to look into it a little deeper with your medical team. You could also do like I did by running lab panels while taking HCG, and then run panels without it.

Seems I've been reading about a lot of guys lately over 40 that start seeing some form or other of urination problems. I am no stranger to this either. My prostate appears to be a little enlarged, but my doctor feels that it's not in bad shape, or that I'm at risk for cancer (at least not now). A little saw palmetto might be something to look at if you haven't already.

[Black]

Did they test your PSA?

[bass]

glad you started this topic, i believe it could be bad hCG, or it went bad! when i first switched from twice a week at 500iu two days before injection to 3 times a week at 320iu. it made a huge difference, my boys felt harder and bigger the first 2-3 weeks then slowly started to shrink, and now its almost back to when i first started hCG! i am thinking maybe the hCG just lost its potency. i did have the hCG vial in the refrigerator door, i have lots of kids so that door open and closes at least 100 times a day! also this time my clinic sent me a 10,000 iu vial, the last time were 5000 iu vials, i am assuming the 10000 ius are lasting allot longer and with the abuse from the refrigerator door it simply went bad. i have another 10000 iu vial, i will mix it and start using it and see if it makes a difference and let you know.

[ecdysone]

Did any of you guys ever experience a stinging sensation when injecting HCG? Just got a batch from a well-known, albeit non-pharm grade source and it really hurts when using it SQ.

With regard to higher dosages, I still need to locate that study showing desensitization is not an issue even with mega doses. Might be interesting to try higher amounts.

One thing about HCG, how it's purified drastically affects its potency, even with the pharm grades there is a large distribution of higher molecular weight (i.e., good) fragments amongst the various suppliers. I don't even want to think what the second-tier guys produce.

[bass]

Did any of you guys ever experience a stinging sensation when injecting HCG? Just got a batch from a well-known, albeit non-pharm grade source and it really hurts when using it SQ.

With regard to higher dosages, I still need to locate that study showing desensitization is not an issue even with mega doses. Might be interesting to try higher amounts.

One thing about HCG, how it's purified drastically affects its potency, even with the pharm grades there is a large distribution of higher molecular weight (i.e., good) fragments amongst the various suppliers. I don't even want to think what the second-tier guys produce.

so far i haven't experienced stinging.

[vinceproduction]

I'm doing IM 2000 iu 3x a week. No burning at all , actually painless. Felt good for about 5weeks but the last week or so I'm really down and sluggish. Going in for be tonight.

[vinceproduction]

I'm doing IM 2000 iu 3x a week. No burning at all , actually painless. Felt good for about 5weeks but the last week or so I'm really down and sluggish. Going in for be tonight.

Meant bloodwork not be

[fit2bOld]

Is this correct Vince? That's a whole lot of HCG!! i'm taking 500 IU 3x wk

Thats 6000 iu a week hope insurance pays for that?

I'm doing IM 2000 iu 3x a week. No burning at all , actually painless. Felt good for about 5weeks but the last week or so I'm really down and sluggish. Going in for be tonight.

[jamotech]

I've been injecting 300 IUs of HCG 4 times a week; two days before I pin with 100mg [.5 ml] of Test twice a week. it's been about 6 months, and while if "feel" better mood wise, and my boys aren't as shriveled as they used to be, they're still not back to what they were before I began Test. Even more so, my loads are thick and next to nothing. Considering how much I'm already taking, will upping my HCG dosage anymore even help, or am I just SOL?

Read a crisler post on his site where he said that he consistently drew from the top level of fluid in the HCG vial, and when there was only a small amount left he tested it and it was mostly water. I think, hes indicating that if you dont roll the bottle around a bit the hcg can be more concentrated at the top than bottom...
When I first started trt, it seemed like there was some shrinkage even with the hcg, then as I got close to the end of the bottle, it seemed to be more potent... bigger balls but started getting high e symptoms. I always drew from the very bottom level of fluid, the opposite of what crisler was doing. It seemed like as I got to the end of the bottle, the concentration was higher, raising my E. It was odd to me why I was getting high E symptoms after 3 months, as I hadnt changed my test or ai dose, but after reading his post I attributed it to the hcg possibly being more concentrated because before I was always drawing from the very bottom.
This may or may not have anything to do with your situation forrest, as it seems like your issue is spanned over 6 months, thought id throw it out there.

[vinceproduction]

Is this correct Vince? That's a whole lot of HCG!! i'm taking 500 IU 3x wk

Thats 6000 iu a week hope insurance pays for that?

Yeah lol that's right I know it's an insane amount, but from what I've been reading quite common when prescribed by a fertility doc. The only reason I'm not on test cup anymore is that my fertility dried up after a year of trt . My current doc, an endo wanted to see if I could start making my own again. At the beginning of his treatment I was at 79 total t. After 3 weeks I was at 358. I just got blood drawn today so we'll see where I'm at in a couple days. And yes insurance is covering it as long as its generic hcg. 3 10,000 iu bottles for $30 copay. While my job may not pay as much as I'd like I'm grateful for my insurance.

[forrest_and_trees]

I never really had what I would call a "big" response to the HCG. It's certainly helped, just not back to pre-trt size and my loads have been down since before I began TRT. There was one vial in the beginning, that seemed a little more potent than all the others, but unfortunately that source is no longer available. I have to get it on line because it's the one thing my doc won't write a script for, even though he knows I'm using it. I asked him several times and finally gave up. But he's been great about *everything* else, so I'm not complaining. I just wonder how reliable the potency of the online stuff is. I've been getting 5000iu vials and the last few batches, I've mixed and filled all the syringes at the same time, then put them in the fridge, so I'd think it should be well mixed. It doesn't' really have a chance to sit for more than a couple mins while I'm filling the syringes. I did have a serious problem with stinging at one point, but it turned out to be bad bac-water. I got some bac-water from another source and it was all better. It actually happened to me on two separate occasions. Since then I've been getting 30ml bac-water vials and reusing them until they're empty. One vial lasts for 6 batches at 5ml per batch. I can't imagine the water is going bad. Can it? I keep it fridge when I'm not using it.

BTW- Vette, Not familiar with using saw palmetto for this. What's the story?

FWIW- I did add an extra dose just to see what would happen, and while the boys and the loads aren't much different, my libido sure was up.. Not sure if it was the HCG or what, but I'll have to try it again to see. I figure it can't hurt.

[Vettester]

Forrest, the best thing I suggest regarding saw palmetto is just type "Saw Palmetto Benefits" into Google. There's dozens of articles and such that will give you all there is to know about the stuff. Some are laced with advertisements, which is why I didn't attach anything.

[steroid.com 1]

[QUOTE=forrest_and_trees;5881862]I never really had what I would call a "big" response to the HCG. It's certainly helped, just not back to pre-trt size and my loads have been down since before I began TRT. There was one vial in the beginning, that seemed a little more potent than all the others, but unfortunately that source is no longer available. I have to get it on line because it's the one thing my doc won't write a script for, even though he knows I'm using it. I asked him several times and finally gave up. But he's been great about *everything* else, so I'm not complaining. I just wonder how reliable the potency of the online stuff is. I've been getting 5000iu vials and the last few batches, I've mixed and filled all the syringes at the same time, then put them in the fridge, so I'd think it should be well mixed. It doesn't' really have a chance to sit for more than a couple mins while I'm filling the syringes. I did have a serious problem with stinging at one point, but it turned out to be bad bac-water. I got some bac-water from another source and it was all better. It actually happened to me on two separate occasions. Since then I've been getting 30ml bac-water vials and reusing them until they're empty. One vial lasts for 6 batches at 5ml per batch. I can't imagine the water is going bad. Can it? I keep it fridge when I'm not using it.

BTW- Vette, Not familiar with using saw palmetto for this. What's the story?

FWIW- I did add an extra dose just to see what would happen, and while the boys and the loads aren't much different, my libido sure was up.. Not sure if it was the HCG or what, but I'll have to try it again to see. I figure it can't hurt.[/QUOTE]

hCG is known to do just that and a nice added benefit eh

FYI, there are a number of well established online over seas pharmacies where you can purchase hCG. Most of it comes from India but so does most of the hCG you buy with a prescription at a compounding pharmacy.

May be an option for you over research sites...

[ecdysone]

I did have a serious problem with stinging at one point, but it turned out to be bad bac-water. I got some bac-water from another source and it was all better. It actually happened to me on two separate occasions. Since then I've been getting 30ml bac-water vials and reusing them until they're empty. One vial lasts for 6 batches at 5ml per batch. I can't imagine the water is going bad. Can it? I keep it fridge when I'm not using it.

Like you, I've traced the stinging back to the water. It was worse when using sterile only (IV) water, and much better with the bac-water. My supplier tried to say it because I was over-diluting the HCG (normally use 1000 IU/mL), but I've never had that issue before. My theory is it's the amount of BA used in the formulation, anything more than 2% is going to sting. I'm to the point of just buying the 30 mL size in bulk from one guy I can trust.

I think the bac-water is stable forever when refrigerated, and just for interest, I examined one of my very old bottles microscopically and it looked clean. The BA does a good job.

Just to repeat what I said before, the purity of HCG varies all over the place even from pharm labs, but I think they all function to some degree no matter the amount of intact HCG chains.

And, just something to think about, it has been reported that some people produce anti-HCG antibodies. I would guess that the possibility of this happening are magnified as the "chain purity" of the preparation is less. And, the longer you use something, the better chance of antibody production.