24, first cycle HARDGAINER, need advice.

[lifeiswheyeasy]

I am 24 years old I know everything i read says to wait til 25, my problem is I am a hardgainer it runs in my blood, both grandparents were skinny up til the day they past, I have been doing research for years and haven't touched gear yet (even though I've wanted to bad) I have waited and put in work in the gym, when I first started working out I was 145pounds 6' tall (big pot head). It took me a year or so just to get my diet, supplement, cardio right and figure out what worked for me, I now weigh 174 pounds still 6' foot. about 8% bodyfat. I work hard and want more strength gains more muscle im not worried about cutting because its fairly easy for me so I've finally found gear from a good source and all the reviews on it are great I know its not a miracle drug, Im not going to shoot some s%#! into my glute and think im going to sit on the couch and eat chips and get big I WORK HARD, I think my test levels are low seeming how I have no facial hair or body hair so here is my plan or what my guy says to do.
8 week cycle
1-8 test propionate weeks 150 eod
1-4 dbol start with 10 mg and up to about 50 mg by week 4
4-8 add more lean mass either with anavar or whinny, this is where im debating?
since reviews are good on both.
pct hcg and nolva

of course I will have cranberry, milk thistle, protein, creatine, glutamine, bcaa's and a good clean high in greens and protein 2500 calorie diet,
I know all the vets get sick of this but Please help me out with good feedback and dont just be a snob about it no one likes a snob we are all on here to help eachother out and become the best we can, let the rest of america argue over mcdonalds and other fat people things, let us get along and put are 2 cents in. thanks for your time guys!

[xXthehulkXx]

Congrats on that accomplishment.

Not going to advise on gear, but if you're going to use, up the calories bro. Probably part of your slow or halt in progress.

[lifeiswheyeasy]

thanks bro, Im still figuring it out, any advice helps.

[gixxerboy1]

2500 calories is the reason your 175lbs. You need to up that, If you do you will gain weight. I'm not saying not to cycle. But fix your diet first and you will get more out of your cycle and keep more of it after.
As far as the cycle
test and dbol are fine. Dont taper the d-bol. And no reason to go to 50mg. i would do week 1-4 at 35mg
Hcg is for use on cycle not pct. 250iu 2x a week
nolva and clomid for pct
but i cant stress this enough. You need to fix your diet first

[lifeiswheyeasy]

but i cant stress this enough. You need to fix your diet first

dude I use to eat to the point of being uncomfortable, and good to not crap complex carbs, protein, even drank a mass gainer that was about 2000 calories and only really put weight on in my gut area I guess it bugs me not being able to see my abs my diet is good and clean maybe just not enough! thanks gixxer.

[gixxerboy1]

dude I use to eat to the point of being uncomfortable, and good to not crap complex carbs, protein, even drank a mass gainer that was about 2000 calories and only really put weight on in my gut area I guess it bugs me not being able to see my abs my diet is good and clean maybe just not enough! thanks gixxer.

well you might not be able to jump up alot of calories in a week but work your way up. Steroids or not you will need to eat more to put on more weight, The amount of calories you eat determines your weight. Eat more weight more. Steroids can't make muscle out of nothing

[lifeiswheyeasy]

well you might not be able to jump up alot of calories in a week but work your way up. Steroids or not you will need to eat more to put on more weight, The amount of calories you eat determines your weight. Eat more weight more. Steroids can make muscle out of nothing

Yeah I get what your saying bro, I would like to be big just not fat so I have always watched what I eat, I guess eating clean is only half the battle, the other half is eating a ton of it!

[Sgt. Hartman]

Don't dismiss what gix said about diet man. I'm sure if I ate 2500cal a day I'd be stuck at 175 too.

If you continue to eat like that on cycle you'll look and feel good on cycle but then lose your gains during or after PCT and wind up right where you started but probably with a little more BF.

The reason you weigh 175 at 8% is because you only eat enough to sustain that amount of LBM.

If you want to get big then you have to eat big, uncomfortable or not.

Post up your diet.

[Sgt. Hartman]

well you might not be able to jump up alot of calories in a week but work your way up. Steroids or not you will need to eat more to put on more weight, The amount of calories you eat determines your weight. Eat more weight more. Steroids can make muscle out of nothing

LOL. I wish. Edit bro.

[gixxerboy1]

LOL. I wish. Edit bro.

lol, good catch. Life would be so good if it was true though

[SMcB]

lol, good catch. Life would be so good if it was true though

Isn't there studies out there that prove this to be true? Isn't test and/or deca proven to help patients with muscle wasting illnesses (cancer, aids, etc.) put on weight without lifting weights or increasing caloric intake?

[lifeiswheyeasy]

pre breakfast whey protein with one banana, mixed anti oxidant berries.
breakfast 3 egg whites 2 whole 5 total plus avocado or oatmeal.
snack almonds greek yogurt
snack nego or some sort of protein bar
lunch, turkey or tuna on wheat or chicken salad, 1 cup cottage cheese
snack almonds or some sort of healthy fats
snack wheat thins or some fruit/ citrus
dinner chicken breast brown rice mixed veggies
before bed or at midnight, casein
with a diet like this I can blow my lady outta my bed with how much gas I produce! granted somethings do very.

[Sgt. Hartman]

Partially true yes. Steroids and HGH can PREVENT MUSCLE WASTING. Not create new muscle tissue out of thin air. If you want to add lean body mass then you have to eat at a caloric surplus, period.

[slfmade]

I agree with what all these guys are saying. I calculated your TDEE - Assuming you workout 3-5 days a week with moderate exercise your TDEE is 2950 calories.

This means if you eat less than 2950 calories/day you'll most likely lose weight, if you eat more...you'll gain weight. You really need to dial in your diet bro before using AAS. I know you said it's hard for you to eat more...and I know the feeling, but like Gixxer said...Work your way up to it. If I were you I would get together a solid diet of at least 3450 calories/day before using any gear. If you can't eat it all that in one day now....work your way up to it.

I know you mentioned you gained fat in your abs when you ate more. This very well could have been due to a poor macro split. I would start at a protein/carbs/fat split of 40/40/20 and see how that works for you.

[Sgt. Hartman]

pre breakfast whey protein with one banana, mixed anti oxidant berries.
breakfast 3 egg whites 2 whole 5 total plus avocado or oatmeal.
snack almonds greek yogurt
snack nego or some sort of protein bar
lunch, turkey or tuna on wheat or chicken salad, 1 cup cottage cheese
snack almonds or some sort of healthy fats
snack wheat thins or some fruit/ citrus
dinner chicken breast brown rice mixed veggies
before bed or at midnight, casein
with a diet like this I can blow my lady outta my bed with how much gas I produce! granted somethings do very.

Hard to tell anything without food amounts or macros but if I was a "hardgainer" (which IMO just means you're not eating enough) then I would raise my complex carbs which it seems you're getting a very minimal amount of.

Protein is all well and fine but carbs are the energy that the body uses to grow new tissue.

My advise would be keep protein at 2 grams per lb of LBM. Start carbs at at least that same amount and raise them until you're gaining.

Think of protein as the material necessary to build a house, but carbs are the labor. You can deliver all the material in the world to the jobsite but if you don't have the labor to construct the house then all the material will sit there and go to waste. If you have a fast metabolism like you say then you need more carbs. If you're a hard gainer then you need carbs at every meal.

[lifeiswheyeasy]

I agree with what all these guys are saying. I calculated your TDEE - Assuming you workout 3-5 days a week with moderate exercise your TDEE is 2950 calories.

This means if you eat less than 2950 calories/day you'll most likely lose weight, if you eat more...you'll gain weight. You really need to dial in your diet bro before using AAS. I know you said it's hard for you to eat more...and I know the feeling, but like Gixxer said...Work your way up to it. If I were you I would get together a solid diet of at least 3450 calories/day before using any gear. If you can't eat it all that in one day now....work your way up to it.

I know you mentioned you gained fat in your abs when you ate more. This very well could have been due to a poor macro split. I would start at a protein/carbs/fat split of 40/40/20 and see how that works for you.

I did my bmi and bmr and have thought this whole time that I have been eating more then I need, also I work out about 5 days a week most of the time unless my job gets in the way, I also accept the fact that my job is very physical I can burn mad calories just at work so I guess I need to up my diet, I have been pulled both ways for years on if I want to gain of just be the shredded kid that has no fat and you can see every muscle in there body like rubber bands, when I start putting on weight my I become less vascular and feel like crap, its probably just mental but I dislike it. thats why I have leaned toward aas because I feel I can avoid the whole feeling fat and just put on lean muscle. thanks for the advise and taking time to add that up slfmade.

[gixxerboy1]

Isn't there studies out there that prove this to be true? Isn't test and/or deca proven to help patients with muscle wasting illnesses (cancer, aids, etc.) put on weight without lifting weights or increasing caloric intake?

yes in an under weight sick person., its not going to in a healthy adult

[lifeiswheyeasy]

Hard to tell anything without food amounts or macros but if I was a "hardgainer" (which IMO just means you're not eating enough) then I would raise my complex carbs which it seems you're getting a very minimal amount of.

Protein is all well and fine but carbs are the energy that the body uses to grow new tissue.

My advise would be keep protein at 2 grams per lb of LBM. Start carbs at at least that same amount and raise them until you're gaining.

Think of protein as the material necessary to build a house, but carbs are the labor. You can deliver all the material in the world to the jobsite but if you don't have the labor to construct the house then all the material will sit there and go to waste. If you have a fast metabolism like you say then you need more carbs. If you're a hard gainer then you need carbs at every meal.

I eat sweet potato's and brown rice and other complex carbs and slow digesting foods, when I am finished working out I usually get more simple carbs and protein all at once just to flood my muscles, I have a calorie counter and use it to measure my food threw out the day thats kinda why I just posted the total amount.

[slfmade]

I did my bmi and bmr and have thought this whole time that I have been eating more then I need, also I work out about 5 days a week most of the time unless my job gets in the way, I also accept the fact that my job is very physical I can burn mad calories just at work so I guess I need to up my diet, I have been pulled both ways for years on if I want to gain of just be the shredded kid that has no fat and you can see every muscle in there body like rubber bands, when I start putting on weight my I become less vascular and feel like crap, its probably just mental but I dislike it. thats why I have leaned toward aas because I feel I can avoid the whole feeling fat and just put on lean muscle. thanks for the advise and taking time to add that up slfmade.

TDEE and BMR are too different calculations. BMR shows how many calories your body burns on it's own without any additional work. For instance if your BMR was 2000calories, that would be the amount you burned if you sit on your ass all day and hardly ever moved. TDEE is calculated based off your activity level. As a matter of fact...if you lifting, doing cardio, and working a very physical job...it would raise your TDEE to 3611. That means you need over that amount to gain.

Most people shoot for 500 calories over TDEE. That would put you needing 4111 calories/day. Like SGT said....2lbs of protein per lb of LBM and a shitload of complex carbs is what you're gonna need to gain weight. So ditch that 40/40/20 split I told you about. You're gonna probably want something closer to 32/48/20.

[lifeiswheyeasy]

Hard to tell anything without food amounts or macros but if I was a "hardgainer" (which IMO just means you're not eating enough)

I have a book anabolic primer that talks about all the deferent types of body's, that guy is really legit on his research and facts and talks about "hardgainers" its not impossible to gain just super hard and stressful sure I can gain just not lean mass.

[gixxerboy1]

I did my bmi and bmr and have thought this whole time that I have been eating more then I need, also I work out about 5 days a week most of the time unless my job gets in the way, I also accept the fact that my job is very physical I can burn mad calories just at work so I guess I need to up my diet, I have been pulled both ways for years on if I want to gain of just be the shredded kid that has no fat and you can see every muscle in there body like rubber bands, when I start putting on weight my I become less vascular and feel like crap, its probably just mental but I dislike it. thats why I have leaned toward aas because I feel I can avoid the whole feeling fat and just put on lean muscle. thanks for the advise and taking time to add that up slfmade.

its hard to stay that lean and ripped and add muscle. You are going to have to put on a little to add some. You can cut back down after

[gixxerboy1]

I have a book anabolic primer that talks about all the deferent types of body's, that guy is really legit on his research and facts and talks about "hardgainers" its not impossible to gain just super hard and stressful sure I can gain just not lean mass.

everyone who comes on here and says im a hard gainer and i cant gain weight never eats enough after they start to post their diet.
I used to think the same about myself. It took years to figure out the right diet and i still learn more.

[RuckusDC5]

lol HARD GAINERS

[lifeiswheyeasy]

so I listened to everyone's advice and have waited to start my first cycle I figured the extra planning dieting and research wouldn't hurt, since my last post i've been trying to get my diet as good as I can by adding more complex carbs and calories we will see how it goes, I already feel like I have more energy, I want to get up to at least 185 190 which I don't think will be a problem before I start A 12 week test E, Dbol, cycle.

[Stosh_112]

EAT MORE MEAT!!! If can change one or two of ur snacks to small meals, u can get some extra calories and protein. Skip the pre-breakfast shake and go right for the FOOD. Being a Hard-Gainer myself i found that shakes are good but FOOD is the best way to pack on lbs for a hard-gainer.
Use the shakes for post workout.
Skip the Winny.

[lifeiswheyeasy]

Thanks stosh, from friday to today I have gained 4lbs not to shabby, I'll just keep eating right and progressing.

[OnTheSauce]

Steel cut oats. Best supplement for anyone having a hard time gaining weight. I thought I was a "hardgainer" too. All that means if you have to eat more. If I eat less than 3700 calories days I lift, I lose weight. I. Eat 3100 on off days. Between meals I just snack on steel cut oats. Really packs in the calories and full of good complex carbs.

[evander87]

Just an FYI when I'm on cycle I eat 5000 calories a day. 4lbs of grilled chicken, sweet potatoes, veg like it's going out of style. Working out hard in the gym is the only time of the day I really get to "relax" because the rest of the day I'm too tired from eating. Oh and I stayed the same body fat 10% before cycle, 10% on cycle, 10% through pct, now I'm cutting down to 6%. Eat a lot of the right foods and you'll grow without getting fat.

One question though, why multiple compounds for a first cycle? What happens if you have a bad reaction? How you going to know which compound fouled you up?

[ghettoboyd]

i would think if the op has a truly high metabolism then eating less clean would only do good in surpassing his plataue in weight gain and then if he saw he was getting fatter he could make adjustments and go clean again...just saying...

[lifeiswheyeasy]

One question though, why multiple compounds for a first cycle? What happens if you have a bad reaction? How you going to know which compound fouled you up?

I have just put my order in and im only going to to a test e cycle just to see how I react, my guy just kinda put some ideas in my head so I am keeping it basic, thanks for all the advice guys.