propionate

[tonyhk]

WK 1-6: Dbol 50mg/ed

WK 1-12: Deca 400mg/wk

WK 1-12: Testosterone-Enanthate or Testosterone-Cypionate 750mg/wk

WK 13-16: Testosterone-Propionate 100mg/eod


this stack is on this site as a good choice for people who have done a few cycles before

my question is why the propionate at the end by itself?

[The Titan99]

Guy's do that so they can start PCT at exactly 48 hours after the last shot of prop, instead of 14 days after the enth or 17 days after the cyp. Not necessary IMO. BTW, on that cycle you could run the Deca to week 13 since it will clear the system in 21 days (3 weeks). What I would suggest is running HCG at 250 i.u.'s twice a week right up to the day before PCT. THAT makes all the difference in the world.

[stpete]

Waste of prop imo. I would just run the test e or cyp for 14 weeks.

[tonyhk]

got it, but when do you start the HCG?

[DeadlyD]

got it, but when do you start the HCG?

2 weeks before PCT for 2weeks, 250iu 2x week should work

[The Titan99]

From the beginning, right up to the first day of PCT. What it does is keeps your balls physically the same size as they are now. You'll still be shut down, but when it comes time for PCT (right as the last of the exogenous AAS leave your body) you don't have to wait that critical amount of time for you balls to re grow from an atrophied state to start producing test again, the PCT drugs will crank them up immediately. Those days between atrophy and regrowth are when you loose all your gains, all the big hormonal swings come and it generally sucks overall. Also I find taking large dose of vitamin C to fight cortisol is a must during PCT, BTW.

[The Titan99]

2 weeks before PCT for 2weeks, 250iu 2x week should work

I've heard a lot of guy's doing it like this, but I always think, "Why not just run it right through from the beginning?" You don't save anything since it generally comes in a 5000 i.u. bottle so once you reconstitute it you have to use it all or throw the majority of it away. My way you have a full 10 weeks worth so the old saying applies, "Use it or lose it." I guess the smart thing to dois calculate when your PCT starts, go 10 weeks back and begin the protocol then, if you wanted to get the most for your money. I usually run 20 week cycles (with a 2 week bridge in the middle, doing 250 mg test) so 2 bottles works perfect for me.

[tonyhk]

thank you for all your advice titan, i love learning more every day. so after everything iv hear from people on the site and the research iv done on my own, this is what im thinking , if you get a chance let me know what you think

WK 1-4: Dianabol 50mg/ed

WK 1-12: Deca-Durabolin 400mg/wk

WK 1-16: Testosterone-Cypionate 750mg/wk

WK 13-16 Trenbolone-Acetate 100mg every other day
WK 9-18 HGC 250iu/2x wk
WK 19: Nolvadex 40mg/ed
, vitamin c
WK 20: Nolvadex 40mg/ed
, vitamin c
WK 21: Nolvadex 20mg/ed , vitamin c

[The Titan99]

First, leave the Tren out this cycle. It will work counter to the Deca and 3 week isn't enough. Dbol is fine. Deca should be run right up to week 15.5 (21 days prior to PCT, do one more shot of Cyp 18 days till PCT). I'd get another SERM for PCT. I prefer torem, but clomid will do. Take all PCT drugs at night to avoid sides and I'd run the thing for 5 weeks at least. That Deca won't be overcome with 3 week PCT I don't think. I'd go like this for PCT.

Nolvadex 40/40/20/20/20
Clomid 100/100/50/50/50

As a side note, looking at your stats I believe your diet needs some work to get the full effect from the AAS, especially post cycle to retain the muscle you gain... Just my 2 cents though...

Good luck Buddy!!

[tonyhk]

thank you man,., i will factor in everything you told me , and yes my diet does need work, i always eat very clean and have started eating more, i think thats my problem, not a big eater but will force myself
ps is there anything else you would add once i take out the tren?

[The Titan99]

Just the PCT thing. I did the same cycle a little while back and really liked it. I'll do the same one again next, but replace the dbol with androl. Then do a long cut with Test P/TrenA/Masteron P/Var.

[DeadlyD]

I've heard a lot of guy's doing it like this, but I always think, "Why not just run it right through from the beginning?" You don't save anything since it generally comes in a 5000 i.u. bottle so once you reconstitute it you have to use it all or throw the majority of it away. My way you have a full 10 weeks worth so the old saying applies, "Use it or lose it." I guess the smart thing to dois calculate when your PCT starts, go 10 weeks back and begin the protocol then, if you wanted to get the most for your money. I usually run 20 week cycles (with a 2 week bridge in the middle, doing 250 mg test) so 2 bottles works perfect for me.

I agree 100% if you have it,use it,my source only sells 1000iu bottles and there pricey,

[BBrian]

Your first cycle was perfectly fine, actually. After experimenting with different methods and compounds, this is essentially how I choose to cycle now. Ending a cycle with a short ester is a very efficient approach to maintaining as much of your gains as possible for the sake of maintaining test levels in the body. Titan did a fine job of answering your question in short, but I disagree that it is absolutely necessary, unless you want your testosterone levels to plummet while you wait to begin PCT, and then wait for those compounds to take effect. HCG is not going to do that for you, HCG is merely going to aid the effectiveness of your PCT compounds, as the struggle to restimulate test production will be a lesser battle. There are a lot of experienced steroid users who have stuck with the same test protocol throughout several cycles, but that only means that they've cut themselves short by not experiencing different approaches. This cycle is far from a waste of prop. And finally, it's best to use the HCG for several weeks during your cycle, not for a mere 2 - unless you're injecting very high doses frequently (less than twice per week). HCG has been shown to be most effective in this manner, however that is only relevant as a PCT protocol. In this protocol, you want to maintain constant stimulation to the gonads in order to prevent them from completely going into atrophy, and the only way to accomplish that is to use it throughout a cycle, especially one containing deca.

Edit: I meant to say (more than twice per week).

[BBrian]

I agree 100% if you have it,use it,my source only sells 1000iu bottles and there pricey,

There are endless legitimate online sources for HCG, and many of them are very well priced.

[tonyhk]

thanks for that info buddy,., very useful

[Flier]

Titan, good advise. Just disagree in the HCG lasting for 10 weeks. Using Bac water, mine lasted 4-5 weeks. What kind of water are u using?

Brian, u always have quality posts, but so hard to read...lol. Can´t u make paragraphs?

[BBrian]

Titan, good advise. Just disagree in the HCG lasting for 10 weeks. Using Bac water, mine lasted 4-5 weeks. What kind of water are u using?

Brian, u always have quality posts, but so hard to read...lol. Can´t u make paragraphs?

I'll work on that, haha.

[DeadlyD]

There are endless legitimate online sources for HCG, and many of them are very well priced.

Do share!!!

[The Titan99]

Titan, good advise. Just disagree in the HCG lasting for 10 weeks. Using Bac water, mine lasted 4-5 weeks. What kind of water are u using?

Brian, u always have quality posts, but so hard to read...lol. Can´t u make paragraphs?

I use the same thing and it seems to be fine for the whole time. I've never run on going tests on it, but I've never had atrophy problems, even on mega doses of AAS, so for me, it works as evidenced by it working, if that makes any sense...

[The Titan99]

Your first cycle was perfectly fine, actually. After experimenting with different methods and compounds, this is essentially how I choose to cycle now. Ending a cycle with a short ester is a very efficient approach to maintaining as much of your gains as possible for the sake of maintaining test levels in the body. Titan did a fine job of answering your question in short, but I disagree that it is absolutely necessary, unless you want your testosterone levels to plummet while you wait to begin PCT, and then wait for those compounds to take effect. HCG is not going to do that for you, HCG is merely going to aid the effectiveness of your PCT compounds, as the struggle to restimulate test production will be a lesser battle. There are a lot of experienced steroid users who have stuck with the same test protocol throughout several cycles, but that only means that they've cut themselves short by not experiencing different approaches. This cycle is far from a waste of prop. And finally, it's best to use the HCG for several weeks during your cycle, not for a mere 2 - unless you're injecting very high doses frequently (less than twice per week). HCG has been shown to be most effective in this manner, however that is only relevant as a PCT protocol. In this protocol, you want to maintain constant stimulation to the gonads in order to prevent them from completely going into atrophy, and the only way to accomplish that is to use it throughout a cycle, especially one containing deca.

Edit: I meant to say (more than twice per week).

I don't understand what we're talking about. The HCG, the switching of Test esters?

[fontazya]

Prop at end of cycle is definately useful.. in my own experience i found using prop at the end before pct keeps you going nice and strong.. if your taking test E and you are waiting 14 days before starting PCT your test levels start to drop.. its better to keep them high IMO i use at end of every cycle..

[The Titan99]

I've done it both ways and never noticed any appreciable difference. I definitely see how it looks better on paper, which is why I tried it, but still never noticed the difference.