Nolvadex vs Clomid

[mrtypr]

Hey guys

Im going to start a sus250 + Tren cycle pretty soon. Just waiting on the stuff and preparing/researching

Ive done a couple cycles in the past, but havent for quiete a number of years, forgotten alot of the info so catching up on research

Just want to know about PCT products, Some people have been saying take Nolvadex, some people have been saying to take Clomid? Which one of these should I grab for PCT for Sus/Tren cycle? Or should Clomid and Nolvadex together for PCT.. Also is it ok to have a natural test booster as well with PCT? something like: Post Cycle 2 ( tried to link but forum wont let me)

Thanks for any info

[big88sub]

I've been seeing a lot of guys suggesting run both nolva and Clomid together. They also recommend hcg throughout cycle or at least a couple weeks before pct to stimulate the lydic cell to prime you for pct and keep the majority of your gains. This is exactly what I'm going to do on my cycle and it going to be dbol test c hcg AND NOLVA / Clomid. I'm not sure if nolva or clomi have any problems with sust or not. I haven't used sust but I'm.sure someone that has will help

[mydus]

I usually run the both of them

[bob87]

Use both Nolva and clomid at

Clomid 50/50/25/25

Nolva 40/40/20/20


Are you running an AI?

What are your stats?

Age
Height
Weight
Bf%

Previous cycles? Including dosage

Planned cycle?? Including dosage

[mrtypr]

Hi thanks for your reply

Not running AI at this point, have not looked into that

Stats:

Age: 28
Height: 173cm tall
Weight: 83kg
Bf% : About 10 to 15% (have not done a pinch test recently)

Previous cycles, Ive done sus250 which was my very first, and 2nd time I did it it I had Prop with Enanthate, followed by Nolvadex for PCT
Its been that long ago I cannot remember the exact dosages, but vaguely going from memory

First ever cycle with just the sus250 was about 250-500mg per/wk
2nd with Prop and Enanthate, was something about 500mg-750mg per/wk

Still researching for planned dosages, going to get 20ml sus250 and 10ml of Tren

Might do something like:

First might kick start off a few weeks with some D-Bols

week 1-12 Sust (500mg/wk)
week 2-8 Tren (300mg/wk)

Then cycle down with some PCT either Nolvadex or Clomid or both?, which is what Im trying to figure out what to grab

Im still trying to work out the best dosages before I begin, let me know if what I have put is crap and should change it.... Its not that much, but Im not after massive gains, just want to get a bit more athletic looking then what I am

And also, sorry if Im not providing that much info, as Im still working stuff out

[bob87]

3rd cycle ot sure i would advise using tren its a serious compound..... are you sure your ready for that?

[gonzo6183]

Use both Nolva and clomid at

Clomid 50/50/25/25

Nolva 40/40/20/20


Are you running an AI?

What are your stats?

Age
Height
Weight
Bf%

Previous cycles? Including dosage

Planned cycle?? Including dosage

Would be better off to run:
Clomid: 100/100/50/50
Nolva: 40/40/20/20

Run HCG at 250iu 2 x per week

and have an AI and some caber on hand for Estrogen or prolactalin sides.

After a few cycles you should know your body and if you need the AI throughout or not

[mrtypr]

Have not had Tren before, so not sure, but my friend thinks I should be fine with it, as im not having much < edited

So does my dosage schedule look ok?

Should I have both Nolvadex and Clomid for PCT? Have to try to source some as well before starting

Also thinking of taking something like "Post-Cycle-2" (cant link) its a natural testosterone booster for PCT

[auswest]

well Ive had Tren before, on my last cycle, and I was ok

So does my dosage schedule look ok?

Should I have both Nolvadex and Clomid for PCT? Have to try to source some as well before starting

Also thinking of taking something like "Post-Cycle-2" (cant link) its a natural testosterone booster for PCT

Didnt you just say your previous cycle experience was 2 test only cycles.... I'm confused.

[bob87]

Didnt you just say your previous cycle experience was 2 test only cycles.... I'm confused.

That's what I read too!!

[mrtypr]

Didnt you just say your previous cycle experience was 2 test only cycles.... I'm confused.

Crap Ive just confused myself here, Its been that long ago since my previous cycle, so to fix that, I havent had Tren before, I just had Prop and Enanthate.. Sorry

My friend thinks I should be fine with it, as im not having much, you guys probably know more though

Any aside from that, you guys think I should try and get some Nolvadex as well as clomid?

[auswest]

Would be better off to run:
Clomid: 100/100/50/50
Nolva: 40/40/20/20

Run HCG at 250iu 2 x per week

and have an AI and some caber on hand for Estrogen or prolactalin sides.

After a few cycles you should know your body and if you need the AI throughout or not

This

[mrtypr]

This

OK thanks, I need to try source some then... Mad profile pic btw lol

[auswest]

OK thanks, I need to try source some then... Mad profile pic btw lol

Board sponsor AR-R. Yup she nicccce.

[mrtypr]

Board sponsor AR-R. Yup she nicccce.

Whats your take on "Post Cycle II" (sorry forum wont let me link)

Been reading thats also good to, but not sure

You guys think that dosage/schedule look alright?

[auswest]

Whats your take on "Post Cycle II" (sorry forum wont let me link)

Been reading thats also good to, but not sure

You guys think that dosage/schedule look alright?

Post it I don't know what you talking about, but the pct and on cycle surport info that has already been posted is what is recommended here for such a cycle..

[jimmyinkedup]

My preference is:
nolva 40/20/20/20
clomid 100/50/50/50

If I run deca i do:
nolva 40/20/20/20/20/20
clomid 100/50/50/50

Heres a good read on why both together would prob be best:

Med Hypotheses. 2009 Jun;72(6):723-8. Epub 2009 Feb 23.

Anabolic steroid-induced hypogonadism--towards a unified hypothesis of anabolic steroid action.

Tan RS, Scally MC.


Source

HPT/Axis Inc., 1660 Beaconshire Road, Houston, TX 77077, USA.


Abstract

Anabolic steroid-induced hypogonadism (ASIH) is the functional incompetence of the testes with subnormal or impaired production of testosterone and/or spermatozoa due to administration of androgens or anabolic steroids. Anabolic-androgenic steroid (AAS), both prescription and nonprescription, use is a cause of ASIH. Current AAS use includes prescribing for wasting associated conditions. Nonprescription AAS use is also believed to lead to AAS dependency or addiction. Together these two uses account for more than four million males taking AAS in one form or another for a limited duration. While both of these uses deal with the effects of AAS administration they do not account for the period after AAS cessation. The signs and symptoms of ASIH directly impact the observation of an increase in muscle mass and muscle strength from AAS administration and also reflect what is believed to demonstrate AAS dependency. More significantly, AAS prescribing after cessation adds the comorbid condition of hypogonadism to their already existing chronic illness. ASIH is critical towards any future planned use of AAS or similar compound to effect positive changes in muscle mass and muscle strength as well as an understanding for what has been termed anabolic steroid dependency. The further understanding and treatments that mitigate or prevent ASIH could contribute to androgen therapies for wasting associated diseases and stopping nonprescription AAS use. This paper proposes a unified hypothesis that the net effects for anabolic steroid administration must necessarily include the period after their cessation or ASIH.


PMID: 19231088 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Future treatments
A treatment goal of HPTA restoration will have its basis in the
regulation and control of testosterone production. The HPTA has
two components, both spermatogenesis and testosterone production.
In males, luteinizing hormone (LH) secretion by the pituitary
positively stimulates testicular testosterone (T) production; follicle-
stimulating hormone (FSH) stimulates testicular spermatozoa
production. The pulsatile secretion of gonadotropin-releasing hormone
(GnRH) from the hypothalamus stimulates LH and FSH
secretion. In general, absent FSH, there is no spermatozoa production;
absent LH, there is no testosterone production. Regulation of
the secretion of GnRH, FSH, and LH occurs partially by the negative
feedback of testosterone and estradiol at the level of the hypothalamo-
pituitary. Estradiol has a much larger, inhibitory effect than
testosterone, being 200-fold more effective in suppressing LH
secretion [57–61].

In the case of ASIH, where the individual suffers from functional
hypogonadism and the belief for eventual return of function, treatment
is directed at HPTA restoration. A medical quandary for physicians
presented with hypogonadal patients secondary to AAS
administration is there is currently no FDA approved drug to restore
HPTA function. Standard treatment to this point has been testosterone
repla***ent therapy (TRT), human chorionic
gonadotropin (hCG), conservative therapy (‘‘watchful waiting” or
‘‘do nothing”), or off-label prescribing of aromatase inhibitors or
selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERM).

The primary drawback of testosterone repla***ent and hCG
administration is that this therapy is infinite in nature. These treatments
will remedy the signs and symptoms associated with hypogonadism,
but do not alleviate the need for a life-long commitment
to therapy. Further, administration serves to further HPTA suppression.

Conservative therapy (‘‘watchful waiting” or ‘‘do nothing”) is
the probably worst case option as this does nothing to treat the patient
with ASIH. Also, conservative therapy will have the undesirable
result of the nonprescription AAS user to return to AAS use
as a means to avoid ASIH signs and symptoms.

The aromatase inhibitors demonstrate the ability to cause an
elevation of the gonadotropins and secondarily serum testosterone
[62]. The administration of SERMs is a common treatment in attempts
to restore the HPTA because they increase LH secretion
from the pituitary that leads to increased local testosterone production
[63–67].

Guay has used clomiphene citrate as therapy for erection dysfunction
and secondary hypogonadism. Patients received clomiphene
citrate 50 mg per day for 4 months in an attempt to raise
their testosterone level [68]. Clomiphene has been reported in a
case study to reverse andropause secondary to anabolic–androgenic
steroid use [69]. The patient received clomiphene citrate
50 mg twice per day in an attempt to raise his testosterone level.
The patient when followed up after two months had a relapse,
tiredness and loss of libido, after discontinuing clomiphene citrate.
There are case study reports demonstrating the effectiveness of
the combination of clomiphene and tamoxifen in HPTA restoration
after stopping AAS administration [70–73]. Clomiphene is a mixture
of the trans (enclomiphene) and cis (zuclomiphene) enantiomers,
which have opposite effects upon the estradiol receptor
[74]. Enclomiphene is an estradiol antagonist, while zuclomiphene
is an estradiol agonist. The addition of tamoxifen to clomiphene
might be expected to increase the overall antagonism of the estradiol
receptor. Enclomiphene alone might be a good candidate to restore
HPTA function.