Dont understand why you guys always argue with under 25year olds cycling

[masso123]

You guys always say that they are screwing them self up in a few years what if they decided to blast and cruise for their entire life they wouldn't have any libido or lethargy problems they would just have to stay dedicated on doing fortnightly injections for life and wouldn't have to worry about those problems.

[auslifta]

Because when you are young you do stupid things and we try to make everyone aware of the risks. This board advises the safer way to use AAS, there is always a risk but why wouldn't you choose the safer option. Most young people abuse AAS and can achieve their goals without the use of steroids. If you want reckless advice, this is not the place to be.

[auswest]

If you're not happy with people giving responsible advice with YOUR best interests in mind, go somewhere else. Most young people only hear what they want to hear, many forums offer this, as it is generally guys in the same position giving them the green light.
In my short time here I have noticed alot of the people here are well educated on the topic and experienced, and will give you truthful honest answers from years of experience.

It is people's duty of care to warn young people of the dangers and not to help or influence them into using steroids and possibly screwing themselves up.

If you saw a child playing on the street, would you attempt to help, given your knowledge of the obvious dangers. Or encourage him to continue what he is doing?

20 years down the track these kids will look back and realize it was people at this forum that had their best interests in mind. And how they wish they listened. People here care!

[Bevsta123]

Its like getting a tattoo under the age of 18, it wont be the best of your decisions but itll have a long term effect on you. Just taking roids has a much greater effect then a tattoo ahha

[masso123]

what i'm saying is, once you do cycle at say 18 you just keep cruising at 250mg a week and whenever you feel like cycling just up the dose and do this for life , then i do not see any long term effects compared to if you did cycle young and stopped without a pct like most young guys and screw yourself up in a few months time.

[Flier]

what i'm saying is, once you do cycle at say 18 you just keep cruising at 250mg a week and whenever you feel like cycling just up the dose and do this for life , then i do not see any long term effects compared to if you did cycle young and stopped without a pct like most young guys and screw yourself up in a few months time.

A 18 yo is not equipped to make this decision. That´s why we are here.

[lovbyts]

what i'm saying is, once you do cycle at say 18 you just keep cruising at 250mg a week and whenever you feel like cycling just up the dose and do this for life , then i do not see any long term effects compared to if you did cycle young and stopped without a pct like most young guys and screw yourself up in a few months time.

For life means what, next 60+ years. Ok you are sure that you will always have the $$$ and the connection to get your test? What if you dont have a job? No insurance? Online sources dry up? I guess the alternative is to live with LOW test, no libido, ED, depression among other things. Yup sounds like a well thought out plan...

All 18yr old can see is the perfect scenario, perfect future, nothing will ever go wrong. I would like to hear from 1 person here over 30 who everything has turned out how they though it would with no glitches along the way since 18. LOL One thing you can count on with life is snags, pit falls, speed bumps and dead ends where you have to start over.

[Bi6 7omo]

If you lived in the uk you would get it all free , but I still don't agree with this , no matter how much you love the gym and training now , from 18 over the next 5-7 Years your priorities change

[lovbyts]

If you lived in the uk you would get it all free , but I still don't agree with this , no matter how much you love the gym and training now , from 18 over the next 5-7 Years your priorities change

Can you guarantee that for the next 60 years? Only guarantee is nothing stays the same, everything changes. Steroid use could easily become illegal in the UK like it has many other places. Didnt they just pass a low that it's illegal to order steroids online or sell online? It's just the start of things to come/change.

Mine is not free but it's via prescription and only cost me $5 a month but if I had a choice I would much rather not HAVE to pin ever week to have normal test levels. There is no guarantee that I will always have insurance let alone testosterone will always be covered. I'm old enough to have seen many medications change and not be covered anymore and you have to find an alternative or pay out of pocket if it's even available.

[AD]

imagine 1 pin a wk, 52 a year, 3120 pins in 60 yrs, assuming that's the life expectancy. and not counting the blasts, which would be 2 pins a wk...

can you imagine that?!? more than 3000 pins for the rest of your life! and to make that kind of decision at 18yrs old?

[Zackery]

what i'm saying is, once you do cycle at say 18 you just keep cruising at 250mg a week and whenever you feel like cycling just up the dose and do this for life , then i do not see any long term effects compared to if you did cycle young and stopped without a pct like most young guys and screw yourself up in a few months time.

Let's put things into perspective. I made a mistake at 22 when a mate and I both started cycling. It was like a competition between the two of us. At the time I had 4 years of training experience. He only had one. But he was confident he would catch up. Long story short, we did everything by the book. 2 months after our PCT we decided to go do some tests to see where we stand. Mine came back perfect, like nothing ever changed. But then the doctor described my friends testosterone levels: "the same as a 5 year old girl".

This is what we are on about. It doesn't necessarily mean something WILL happen to you. We're just saying that it CAN go seriously wrong. And young guys watch all these bodybuilders and want to look like that. So they turn to steroids in poor judgement.

[traindude]

Let's put things into perspective. I made a mistake at 22 when a mate and I both started cycling. It was like a competition between the two of us. At the time I had 4 years of training experience. He only had one. But he was confident he would catch up. Long story short, we did everything by the book. 2 months after our PCT we decided to go do some tests to see where we stand. Mine came back perfect, like nothing ever changed. But then the doctor described my friends testosterone levels: "the same as a 5 year old girl".

This is what we are on about. It doesn't necessarily mean something WILL happen to you. We're just saying that it CAN go seriously wrong. And young guys watch all these bodybuilders and want to look like that. So they turn to steroids in poor judgement.

Did you mean when you were 22 years old(you have 4 years of training experience),you took steroids and your friend also did.Then after cycling you recovered perfectly,and your friend screwed himself up?

How old are your mate?same as you?if so,Do you want to imply that if somebody wants to use steroids he must has at least some years of natural training experience?Oh,and he must be 22+ years old?

So you recommend a 22 years old guy who has been training for 4+ years just take steroids straight away?Because you are fine after you did this.What's your point?

[AD]

the point is its like russian roulette. you might recover, you might not. the younger you are, the worse the odds. so why not just play it safe and wait.

[JonnyConcrete]

this may seem like a retarded question but here goes If someone cruised for the rest of their life lets say starting from 25 years old. At some point would they need to up the test in order for it to have same effect on overall testostorone levels. Or could they easily keep to say 150mg a week with no need to increase it (discounting blasts)

[LolWuter]

This is a retarded question. Who says an 18 year old can't recover? All the 18 year olds I know recovered well, even if some of them did it without PCT, so this question assumes that they won't recover. This board is one of the few idiotic boards that will assume this for an 18 year old right from the get go.

[lovbyts]

This is a retarded question. Who says an 18 year old can't recover? All the 18 year olds I know recovered well, even if some of them did it without PCT, so this question assumes that they won't recover. This board is one of the few idiotic boards that will assume this for an 18 year old right from the get go.

So you are saying non of them have any health issues that in any way shape or form could be related to aas cycle? Interesting since my experience is pretty much the opposite and my experience from being here, reading on the board for the last 4 years I have read 100s of kids/people who experienced long lasting sides such as ED, depression and many others. Some stared during PCT, some several months later. Some had problems they did not associate to their aas use for a couple of years after discovering they had some hormonal imbalance and finally put 2+2 together.

[Flier]

Did you mean when you were 22 years old(you have 4 years of training experience),you took steroids and your friend also did.Then after cycling you recovered perfectly,and your friend screwed himself up?

How old are your mate?same as you?if so,Do you want to imply that if somebody wants to use steroids he must has at least some years of natural training experience?Oh,and he must be 22+ years old?

So you recommend a 22 years old guy who has been training for 4+ years just take steroids straight away?Because you are fine after you did this.What's your point?

If you young lads turned off Jersey Shore, and watched some good ol movies, your general perceptions of life would be so much deeper.

What he is saying is the same as a respected wise man used to say, "Do you feel lucky....Punk. Well do ya".

You feel it?

[JohnnyScarecrow]

What I don't get is why this continues to be an issue to question. It's questioning science FACT. Not only that, but you have tons of people who come on this very board to share their experiences. No, you might not have a problem, but you also could fvck yourself over. Is it worth it? To put it in steroid terms, it is like saying that not everyone gets gyno so there is no reason to keep an AI on hand when you cycle... obviously that is flawed thinking.

When you're 35 and working in an office, 2 kids at home and straining to make ends-meet the last thing you're going to be doing is working on your pump. Get real. "I'm going to blast and cruise 4eva brah!" Being young and stupid fortunately doesn't last forever, but these mistakes often do.

[kolaking]

You guys are forgetting what excersice is all about; creating a physical look of optimal health with an overall mental feeling of well being, regardless of what you see in the rags with pics of guys with 1 in 10,000 genetics.

"Just as there are valid principles to guide you succesfully on your journey toward the aquisition of larger muscles, there is also a valid method, or theory, to guide one's thinking toward the aquisition of valid human knowledge. And it only stands to reason that a bodybuilder should want to know the ideas (or principles) directing his training efforts are true ideas. And how will he ever come to distinguish true ideas from false ideas until or unless he learns something about the nature of ideas, which requires knowledge of the identity of the human mind. To settle for anything less than certainty about the truth of the ideas guiding you in the pursuit of your goals would be to leave your life literally to chance" Mike Mentzer.

You should not be thinking in terms of "who's right?" but rather "whats true?" Sure you can go out there and start cycling crazy stacks or non-stop and try to get yourself as big as you think you want to be by the time your 22, thats your decision to make, but I promise there will be unfortunate cosequences to pay for it for the rest of what could be a short life. I know that you young guys, 90% of you, won't listen to reason because we tell you to take your time and ya'll want it NOW! But hopefully the 10 % of you will take the advise of the people who have already made the mistakes and people who have done it right and follow. Your priorities will change every so many years as you get older and experience things, don't do something that you will regret just a few years after you did it! YOU YOUNG GUYS HAVE PLENTY OF TIME!

[JohnnyVegas]

imagine 1 pin a wk, 52 a year, 3120 pins in 60 yrs, assuming that's the life expectancy. and not counting the blasts, which would be 2 pins a wk...

can you imagine that?!? more than 3000 pins for the rest of your life! and to make that kind of decision at 18yrs old?

My TRT is two IM pins a week and two SQ pins a week. You are not wrong about being a pin cushion. I am putting a minimum of 208 holes in my body every year.

[BoxingSubie]

Im 24, and I wish I could tell you all the things I wish I would have initially listened to my dad about. Thankfully nothing I ****ed up has long term affects or anything to do with roiding.

It's unfortunate things like these are even pushed into a kids head at 18. Listen to your elder, respect them. It's not a myth they know better. They have the experiences to back it up no matter how smart or how much research you think you have done, they have the experience which is 100 times better.

[Times Roman]

Listen mate,
My son is 21 and came to me about two years ago asking about steroids. some of his buddies are on em. so i sat him down and we talked about it. when through, he understood my position. I go to the gym and there are a couple of kids there i suspect are on em too. but you look at their routines and clearly they don't know too much, which is why i suspect. My point is, not all kids have a father that knows about these things, and what to warn them about, and some fathers don't even care. Most boys until they are about 25 don't even have their heads screwed on very tight.

When young men are at this age, they feel immortal, and even then, they feel if they do run into some trouble, there will be a pill or a shot or something that will bail them out. But that is not always the case. Sometimes when something is broke, you can't fix it. All the kings men CANNOT put Humptey Dumptey back together again.

We get hundreds of young men every month come here with the intent of doing steroids at too young of an age. I am willing to bet a large sum of money that if they were 35, looking back, they would choose NOT to start steroids at such a young age. But at this age, these kids have what i call a blind spot. They don't see the damage or the harm they can do themselves. So it is up to people like me that do care, to try and get them to wait until they are ready. True, a majority of these youths will go ahead and do steroids regardless of what i say. But it is that small minority that i do connect with makes it all the worth while for me. I probably get one or two thank you messages a month from these guys that say they appreciated me taking the time to show them the hazards of what they were prepared to do.

So the short answer to your question "Why do we ""argue"" with people under 25....."?

.....because i care about people. Because it is good when someone is looking out for you.


---Roman

[ghettoboyd]

You guys are forgetting what excersice is all about; creating a physical look of optimal health with an overall mental feeling of well being, regardless of what you see in the rags with pics of guys with 1 in 10,000 genetics.

"Just as there are valid principles to guide you succesfully on your journey toward the aquisition of larger muscles, there is also a valid method, or theory, to guide one's thinking toward the aquisition of valid human knowledge. And it only stands to reason that a bodybuilder should want to know the ideas (or principles) directing his training efforts are true ideas. And how will he ever come to distinguish true ideas from false ideas until or unless he learns something about the nature of ideas, which requires knowledge of the identity of the human mind. To settle for anything less than certainty about the truth of the ideas guiding you in the pursuit of your goals would be to leave your life literally to chance" Mike Mentzer.

You should not be thinking in terms of "who's right?" but rather "whats true?" Sure you can go out there and start cycling crazy stacks or non-stop and try to get yourself as big as you think you want to be by the time your 22, thats your decision to make, but I promise there will be unfortunate cosequences to pay for it for the rest of what could be a short life. I know that you young guys, 90% of you, won't listen to reason because we tell you to take your time and ya'll want it NOW! But hopefully the 10 % of you will take the advise of the people who have already made the mistakes and people who have done it right and follow. Your priorities will change every so many years as you get older and experience things, don't do something that you will regret just a few years after you did it! YOU YOUNG GUYS HAVE PLENTY OF TIME!

what do we expect from them after all they have grown up with instant potatoes,instant pudding, instant oatmeal fast food ect and everything is handed to them my mom and dad so why in the hell do they need to work for anything when aas is obviously instant muscles right?...op nobodys stopping you from doing whatever you want but no one here with condone it eather so if you are looking for a "high five" for making a poor disicion there are other boards with uninformed kids like yourself that will tell you what you want to hear so go find them if you arnt looking for the truth...

[The Bear 79]

This is a retarded question. Who says an 18 year old can't recover? All the 18 year olds I know recovered well, even if some of them did it without PCT, so this question assumes that they won't recover. This board is one of the few idiotic boards that will assume this for an 18 year old right from the get go.

Nobody ever said an "18 year old cant recover", some will recover & never have problems, some will recover & have problems down the road & some wont recover at all. If you would slow down & actually read instead of skimming over, you would clearly see we are warning of the significantly greater risk of damaging undeveloped systems & in return, not being able to recover, or having problems later, even after a recovery, like I said, it has NEVER been stated "you WONT recover". I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand, just be patient, wait until these vital systems have fully developed, & THEN cycle.

[JohnnyVegas]

This is the same issue we (as people in general) have with all information. People without critical thinking skills and a thirst for knowledge will form very strong opinions on a subject while they know next to nothing about it. Then, as they learn more they will believe anything that agrees with their (uninformed) opinion and reject anything that disagrees.

It doesn't matter if we are talking about steroids, the Zimmerman/Martin shooting, abortion, gun control or any other issue. A majority of people are not looking to learn, they are looking to argue their point of view. Ironically, the person they are arguing with is usually doing exactly the same thing and nobody will learn a damn thing.

I respect the guys here that discourage young AAS use. They will not be able to change many guy's minds, but at least they know they are not contributing to the possible health risks of someone more likely to develop them.

[FONZY007]

This is a retarded question. Who says an 18 year old can't recover? All the 18 year olds I know recovered well, even if some of them did it without PCT, so this question assumes that they won't recover. This board is one of the few idiotic boards that will assume this for an 18 year old right from the get go.

Man you really are trying to say its ok, what proof you have other them telling you they are fine, i used at 20 as followed everything in the book and stated I was fine till I was 25 and all I wanted to do was sleep had a hard time keeping fat off had bw done was at 147ng/ml which was low..

So when someone says I'm fine, bw don't lie!!! Period

You might not feel it today but tomorrow is another day..

I'm on trt since 27 wish I could go back but hey that's the choice I made just have to move forward

And if you don't like what ppl are saying on this board why u keep coming back... Oh that's right to give the 18 yr olds the ok to turn to AAS.. Smh

[The Bear 79]

Man you really are trying to say its ok, what proof you have other them telling you they are fine, i used at 20 as followed everything in the book and stated I was fine till I was 25 and all I wanted to do was sleep had a hard time keeping fat off had bw done was at 147ng/ml which was low..

So when someone says I'm fine, bw don't lie!!! Period

You might not feel it today but tomorrow is another day..

I'm on trt since 27 wish I could go back but hey that's the choice I made just have to move forward

And if you don't like what ppl are saying on this board why u keep coming back... Oh that's right to give the 18 yr olds the ok to turn to AAS.. Smh

This bull sh!t is just the tip of the iceberg brother. Check out his post history........

[swm1972]

What I don't get is why this continues to be an issue to question. It's questioning science FACT.

That's why my repeated requests for scientific data and studies have been repeatedly ignored or answered with "it's common sense, dude"

Facts require more then random anonymous (often single thread posters that never return) message board users claims. With the standards for fact required around here we'd all be living on a flat planet, in the center of our solar system, with everything in the universe circling this grand little flat rock we all live on.

[swm1972]

Man you really are trying to say its ok, what proof you have other them telling you they are fine, i used at 20 as followed everything in the book and stated I was fine till I was 25 and all I wanted to do was sleep had a hard time keeping fat off had bw done was at 147ng/ml which was low..

So when someone says I'm fine, bw don't lie!!! Period

You might not feel it today but tomorrow is another day..

I'm on trt since 27 wish I could go back but hey that's the choice I made just have to move forward

And if you don't like what ppl are saying on this board why u keep coming back... Oh that's right to give the 18 yr olds the ok to turn to AAS.. Smh

So five years after your cycle, having felt completely fine for years, you suddenly developed low testosterone and feel it was cause by one single cycle half a decade earlier? I have an HRT appointment in the morning. I will inquire about this. This seems extremely unlikely.

[The Bear 79]

Johny don't be fooled by this clown, he only tells the side of the story that makes HIM look good. Ask him to support his claim that everyone elses claim of cycling under 25 can cause damage to undeveloped systems is false, & see what kind of answer you get.

[bodybycookiesandcake]

clowns are funny

[bodybycookiesandcake]

That's why my repeated requests for scientific data and studies have been repeatedly ignored or answered with "it's common sense, dude"

Facts require more then random anonymous (often single thread posters that never return) message board users claims. With the standards for fact required around here we'd all be living on a flat planet, in the center of our solar system, with everything in the universe circling this grand little flat rock we all live on.

ill spell it out again for you , since steroids are illegal and a controlled substance U will never find a resident Dr. writing his/her thesis on a control group of age 16-21 year old kids and the effect steroids have on them and what is to come after and their ability or lack of to recover from these drugs.

if you want info, on anything remotely close to this go read articles dating back since 1993- till present date by bill Roberts.

[coliinxd]

I understand why people on the forum "argue" with people under 24-25 yrs old. Anyone younger shouldn't cycle, thats the "rule of thumb" if u will. I just don't understand why people will not help them. As stated, about 90% of the kids that read all of these warnings will ignore, so after seeing that they are doing it no matter what you say, I feel like they need the help. If they're going to do it, I feel people should help them as much as possible(after warning them of the dangers) so that there is less of a chance of them screwing up their body. Just my thoughts

[FONZY007]

So five years after your cycle, having felt completely fine for years, you suddenly developed low testosterone and feel it was cause by one single cycle half a decade earlier? I have an HRT appointment in the morning. I will inquire about this. This seems extremely unlikely.

Let me correct this, I felt fatigued before had trouble keeping fat down,but what I did was jump on another cycle to mask this issue. I was 25 till I did something about it sorry for the confusion and it wasn't till after tests after test he put me on hrt at 27.. We even tried jump starting my own system but high it got was Under 200ng/ml

One cycle can do this, you might be lucky or not that's the gamble you or some other under 25 should take..

[songdog]

what i'm saying is, once you do cycle at say 18 you just keep cruising at 250mg a week and whenever you feel like cycling just up the dose and do this for life , then i do not see any long term effects compared to if you did cycle young and stopped without a pct like most young guys and screw yourself up in a few months time.

I can see by your statement you are just a bundle full of knowledge.Best kept to yourself!

[DeadlyD]

Listen mate,
My son is 21 and came to me about two years ago asking about steroids. some of his buddies are on em. so i sat him down and we talked about it. when through, he understood my position. I go to the gym and there are a couple of kids there i suspect are on em too. but you look at their routines and clearly they don't know too much, which is why i suspect. My point is, not all kids have a father that knows about these things, and what to warn them about, and some fathers don't even care. Most boys until they are about 25 don't even have their heads screwed on very tight.

When young men are at this age, they feel immortal, and even then, they feel if they do run into some trouble, there will be a pill or a shot or something that will bail them out. But that is not always the case. Sometimes when something is broke, you can't fix it. All the kings men CANNOT put Humptey Dumptey back together again.

We get hundreds of young men every month come here with the intent of doing steroids at too young of an age. I am willing to bet a large sum of money that if they were 35, looking back, they would choose NOT to start steroids at such a young age. But at this age, these kids have what i call a blind spot. They don't see the damage or the harm they can do themselves. So it is up to people like me that do care, to try and get them to wait until they are ready. True, a majority of these youths will go ahead and do steroids regardless of what i say. But it is that small minority that i do connect with makes it all the worth while for me. I probably get one or two thank you messages a month from these guys that say they appreciated me taking the time to show them the hazards of what they were prepared to do.

So the short answer to your question "Why do we ""argue"" with people under 25....."?

.....because i care about people. Because it is good when someone is looking out for you.

---Roman

Your one of the many good guys on this site Roman, the main reason people join this site is to learn, so listen and learn young lads, your lucky to have caring vets here to help you!!

[The Bear 79]

I understand why people on the forum "argue" with people under 24-25 yrs old. Anyone younger shouldn't cycle, thats the "rule of thumb" if u will. I just don't understand why people will not help them. As stated, about 90% of the kids that read all of these warnings will ignore, so after seeing that they are doing it no matter what you say, I feel like they need the help. If they're going to do it, I feel people should help them as much as possible(after warning them of the dangers) so that there is less of a chance of them screwing up their body. Just my thoughts

If you're going to fvck yourself up, you're going to do it on your own, I WILL NOT be a part of that train wreck. I wont spend the rest of my days knowing some kid is now dealing with a lifetime of regret & failed attempt after failed attempt to recover, based on my advice. I have done enough in my life I wont ever forget, I don't need to add to the list. And most here feel similarly if not exactly the same way.

[dooie]

Don't waste your energy bear!

[JohnnyVegas]

If you're going to fvck yourself up, you're going to do it on your own, I WILL NOT be a part of that train wreck. I wont spend the rest of my days knowing some kid is now dealing with a lifetime of regret & failed attempt after failed attempt to recover. I have done enough in my life I wont ever forget, I don't need to add to the list. And most here feel similarly if not exactly the same way.

Agreed.

[Simon1972]

easy fix guys, why dosent the forum ask for birthdates upon registration and ban kids under 25 from registering??