confused

[cdavis1972]

I am a little confused here. I understand that at 205 lbs I should shoot for roughly 200 grams of protein a day. I have a list of slow carbs to eat during the day and fast carbs to eat before and after workouts. I also get that I probably wont be putting on any mass while cutting fat. So I guess my question is do I eat the same diet while cutting fat as I would when I go to build mass?

[binsser]

youll shoot for 300 grams of pro not 2 and thats min.... it 1.5-2 grams per pound of body weight and yes youd do the same diet but add more cals/carbs/fats

[gbrice75]

I am a little confused here. I understand that at 205 lbs I should shoot for roughly 200 grams of protein a day.

What are your full stats? Age, height, and more important - bodyfat percentage? I base protein needs on LBM, not total bodyweight. Why calculate protein/caloric needs based on inactive body mass (fat)? My rule of thumb is 1.5g - 2g per lb. of LBM. So for example, if you're 205lbs at 15% bodyfat, you'd eat between 260g - 350g per day. I'd probably aim for 300g to start and adjust from there, if needed. Note if your bodyfat percentage is drastically different, then these numbers will change.

fast carbs to eat before and after workouts.

Not necessary

I also get that I probably wont be putting on any mass while cutting fat.

Depends on how far along into training you are. If you're new to this, you'll likely put on some muscle - maybe nothing significant, but a lot of newbs do actually add some muscle while losing fat. It's possible. Becomes much more difficult after your body becomes accustomed to training and dieting properly.

So I guess my question is do I eat the same diet while cutting fat as I would when I go to build mass?

I do - only the quantities of the food change. i.e. foods choices stay the same regardless of whether i'm cutting or trying add mass. Adding mass is no excuse to eat whatever you want.

[Warrior1700]

My rule of thumb is 1.5g - 2g per lb. of LBM. So for example, if you're 205lbs at 15% bodyfat, you'd eat between 260g - 350g per day. I'd probably aim for 300g to start and adjust from there, if needed. Note if your bodyfat percentage is drastically different, then these numbers will change.

GB...

"less frequent larger meals work just as well for others, me included."

So if according to your current stats in your profile, you should be consuming from 255g-340g protein. How many times, what are you eating and how much protein are you getting per if you are eating less frequently then every 2-3 hours?

[Back In Black]

GB...

"less frequent larger meals work just as well for others, me included."

So if according to your current stats in your profile, you should be consuming from 255g-340g protein. How many times, what are you eating and how much protein are you getting per if you are eating less frequently then every 2-3 hours?

I'm not GB but I just moved to 4 meals per day and have 70g protein in each meal to make my 280g. I certainly don't feel any worse for it, though it's only been a few days!

[gbrice75]

GB...

"less frequent larger meals work just as well for others, me included."

So if according to your current stats in your profile, you should be consuming from 255g-340g protein. How many times, what are you eating and how much protein are you getting per if you are eating less frequently then every 2-3 hours?

lol, I have no idea what my stats are in my profile... but they're from years ago so they're definitely not accurate!

You're quoting me from another thread regarding meal frequency. At the moment i'm eating 275g of protein over 6 meals per day... roughly 45g of protein per meal.

When I was eating 3 meals/day, I was running an IF diet - completely different animal.

[Warrior1700]

I'm not GB but I just moved to 4 meals per day and have 70g protein in each meal to make my 280g. I certainly don't feel any worse for it, though it's only been a few days!

Didn't mean only GB could reply..Lol. Was using a line he had in another thread. Ste, thanks, wold you keep us posted here plz how you are feeling.

Wow, that's a a lot per....So, recently outta cryogenics here, so there really isn't an "amount" of protein per (to a point I presume) that is too much to assimilate? There was a post in a thread recently ....someone said 40 , but I have "heard" around 40-50gm per or just wasted?

[Warrior1700]

lol, I have no idea what my stats are in my profile... but they're from years ago so they're definitely not accurate!

Well....Update that Chit man....Lol

You're quoting me from another thread regarding meal frequency. At the moment i'm eating 275g of protein over 6 meals per day... roughly 45g of protein per meal.

Yes I am , it kinds fit into here a bit...talking bout how much protein per day ref LBM. Ok, I see, you adjust according to your diet plan....but now you are eating 6 meals, are any of those your (meal repla***ent) shakes?

When I was eating 3 meals/day, I was running an IF diet - completely different animal.

Got cha.

[Back In Black]

We are all different. Some of us are far better at assimilating certain macro's whereas others are poor. For me, I'm poor with high fat even if my carbs are low. I need to keep fats under 20% or else.

But, in essence, yes; too much of anything is a waste. The only real way of knowing is is to measure your weight against bodyfat!

[Warrior1700]

We are all different. Some of us are far better at assimilating certain macro's whereas others are poor. For me, I'm poor with high fat even if my carbs are low. I need to keep fats under 20% or else.

But, in essence, yes; too much of anything is a waste. The only real way of knowing is is to measure your weight against bodyfat!

Yes we are...I need to start to "listen" and "feel" my body more...

Yea, I'm 205 at about 12% so I need about 270-360gm per day

[gbrice75]

Re: meal repla***ent shakes - my prewprkout meal at 5am consists of:

1/2 cup oats w/ 1/2 a banana

My protein smoothie

So the answer is yes, although all of my shakes/smoothies contain cottage cheese as well.

[cdavis1972]

I am going to post these stats even though they are quite embarassing.
I am 40 years old.
5 foot 10 inches.
25%bf
I havent worked out in about 20 years. Since I was in the military.
So eating the same foods but changing quantity... i am assuming you eat less.
And fast carbs pre and post workout not necessary? Some sort of shake a better option then? You gotta eat somethin before and after right?
Please forgive the utter ignorance. I am in totally new territory and want to do this right.

[gbrice75]

You have nothing to be embarrassed about. There are plenty of people here in your position, and much worse. Hell, 4 years ago I was 255lbs and mid-30's bodyfat. This is a support forum, and you'll get nothing but support here. Anybody wanting to hurt member's feelings will be swiftly banned.

I'd start your protein at 250g based on 205lbs @ 25% bodyfat. For overall calories, I wouldn't go over 2000 for a while to be honest. In fact, I think you'd do well in the 1700-2000 range, 2000 being a single high calorie day. I know it sounds low, but I've cut on fewer calories than that... without any muscle loss.

Foods pre and post workout are, in your case, necessary. To keep things simple, i'd start you with 6 -8 meals/day (depends on the length of your day, basically eating every 3 hours or so), with carbs in only your pre and PWO meals. Possibly in your first meal of the day as well. I'd stick with all complex carbs - the idea is to keep sugar intake as LOW as possible, keeping insulin spikes at bay and BGL stable.

I don't have the time to step you through an entire diet, some of the other guys will help you along, but in the meantime I suggest you read my cutting 101 sticky here to get started: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ng-101-Cutting

Good luck, hopefully you'll start a progress thread once you've gained some knowledge. Keep us posted!

[RaginCajun]

I'm not GB but I just moved to 4 meals per day and have 70g protein in each meal to make my 280g. I certainly don't feel any worse for it, though it's only been a few days!

i have anywhere from 75-125g of protein in one meal, love it! i only eat around 2, maybe 3 meals a day

[RaginCajun]

You have nothing to be embarrassed about. There are plenty of people here in your position, and much worse. Hell, 4 years ago I was 255lbs and mid-30's bodyfat. This is a support forum, and you'll get nothing but support here. Anybody wanting to hurt member's feelings will be swiftly banned.

I'd start your protein at 250g based on 205lbs @ 25% bodyfat. For overall calories, I wouldn't go over 2000 for a while to be honest. In fact, I think you'd do well in the 1700-2000 range, 2000 being a single high calorie day. I know it sounds low, but I've cut on fewer calories than that... without any muscle loss.

Foods pre and post workout are, in your case, necessary. To keep things simple, i'd start you with 6 -8 meals/day (depends on the length of your day, basically eating every 3 hours or so), with carbs in only your pre and PWO meals. Possibly in your first meal of the day as well. I'd stick with all complex carbs - the idea is to keep sugar intake as LOW as possible, keeping insulin spikes at bay and BGL stable.

I don't have the time to step you through an entire diet, some of the other guys will help you along, but in the meantime I suggest you read my cutting 101 sticky here to get started: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ng-101-Cutting

Good luck, hopefully you'll start a progress thread once you've gained some knowledge. Keep us posted!

^^^^^^^^^^^this! read thru the stickies and then start a thread in which you lay out your diet with regards to your daily schedule. everyone is here to help!

[cdavis1972]

Thanks guys.
I read the cutting 101 sticky and it was very informative. I understand (i think) what i need to do. I will have my carbs in the morning and pre/post workout and thats it. I'll increase my protein and cut sugar. Should I do more cardio than weights or balance the two? Right now I do a full body workout 3 days a week. And honestly not much cardio. I hate it but I know its necessary.

I will post a more detailed diet once I figure one out. The diet will be tricky because of my job. Its tough getting to eat in the prison. I saw a thread about beef jerky. Would this really be an option for getting my protein in during the day? That I could get in and snack on it all day.

thanks again for your encouraging words. I look forward to getting in shape with your help.

[Warrior1700]

i have anywhere from 75-125g of protein in one meal, love it! i only eat around 2, maybe 3 meals a day

Wow. That completely debunks the every 2-3 hours...ok, cuz there are days that I eat big meals and less or smaller meals and more, just depends on my situation at work.

[gbrice75]

Thanks guys.
I read the cutting 101 sticky and it was very informative. I understand (i think) what i need to do. I will have my carbs in the morning and pre/post workout and thats it. I'll increase my protein and cut sugar. Should I do more cardio than weights or balance the two? Right now I do a full body workout 3 days a week. And honestly not much cardio. I hate it but I know its necessary.

I will post a more detailed diet once I figure one out. The diet will be tricky because of my job. Its tough getting to eat in the prison. I saw a thread about beef jerky. Would this really be an option for getting my protein in during the day? That I could get in and snack on it all day.

thanks again for your encouraging words. I look forward to getting in shape with your help.

Re: cardio - i'd say do as much as possible... but at least 1 hour 6 days a week. Mix it up - some steady state/moderate intensity (fasted in the am would be great), some HIIT (PWO in the fed state for this), etc. Full body workouts are great - try and stick with higher reps, lower weight and short rest periods. Keep the workouts cardio-intensive.

I hate cardio too. With a passion. But it's a MUST IMO... when you want to lose a significant amount of bodyfat.

Wow. That completely debunks the every 2-3 hours...ok, cuz there are days that I eat big meals and less or smaller meals and more, just depends on my situation at work.

Weren't you involved in that thread where we were discussing IF et. al.? The eating every 2-3 hours thing boosting metabolism has been completely debunked. It's not bad mind you, works very well for plenty of people - but it's NOT a must by any means.

[cdavis1972]

Gotcha.
So heres another question.
1) Cardio is best on an empty stomach.
2) Cardio should be done before weight training because cardio done after weights inhibits muscle repair?
3) Some sort of pre w/o nutrition is important. No way I can make it thru a weight training session on an empty stomach.
4) So... cardio then eat then workout? Is it a viable option to drink a pre w/o shake WHILE working out or is it better to get it in before?

[gbrice75]

So heres another question.
1) Cardio is best on an empty stomach.

Not exactly. For instance, I wouldn't do high intensity cardio in a fasted state. There is too much risk of LBM loss due to the intensity. Rather, I opt for moderate intensity/steady state (as opposed to intervals of high intensity) in a fasted state. By being in the fasted state, you are keeping your blood glucose levels low, and insulin release supressed. Fat is not burned when insulin is present, so it makes sense IMO to incorporate fasted cardio.

There are studies out there that say there is no significant difference in fat burning when cardio is done fasted vs. fed, however until this is absolutely proven, I tend to err on the side of caution, and stick with what seems logical to me.

2) Cardio should be done before weight training because cardio done after weights inhibits muscle repair?

No, and no. First, I wouldn't do much cardio before weight training... not much more than for a warmup and to get the blood flowing and heart rate up a bit. Certainly not to a point where you're really using energy; save that for your workout. I'd rather collapse on a treadmill, not under a barbell.

Cardio does NOT inhibit muscle repair! The majority of muscle repair occurs in a state of rest/sleep. You especially don't need to worry about this if you are eating a decent preworkout meal.

3) Some sort of pre w/o nutrition is important. No way I can make it thru a weight training session on an empty stomach.

Unless you're intentionally using a fasting method diet like IF, then yes, I think it's relatively important. Lean protein and good slow sustaining complex carb.

4) So... cardio then eat then workout? Is it a viable option to drink a pre w/o shake WHILE working out or is it better to get it in before?

Eat, workout, cardio, eat - i.e. preworkout meal, workout, cardio, Post workout meal.

Get it in before. If you want something intra workout, sip on BCAA's. But it's by no means necessary IMO, when you're already having a preworkout meal (and i'd try to go for something more substantial than just a whey shake btw)

[busybody]

cdavis,
welcome man. looks like you got some uphill work to do....hahahaha.
no worries man. everybody has been there. now you have some help, and
that's all you need.
first off...whatever gbrice says you should take to heart. he's got solid diet advice.
and he's been down your road, so it should be even more pertinent to you.
if noone else has said it, then here it is.
start with a 40/40/20 split. 40% protein, 40% carbs, and 20% fat.
and when you are cutting, the 40% carbs are what you play with.
you supplement with low GI carbs or veggies.
the tough part is the new diet. you're aren't going to like it....hahahaha.

good luck with the start man. jump into it wholeheartedly, and dont half-ass
it. make the decision and do it totally. best advice i can give.

[cdavis1972]

Gbrice,
Thanks for all that info. It actually simplified a bunch of junk I have been cramming my head full of over the last few days. The new diet starts tomorrow so I'll keep you posted. Also I will post a list of a typical days meals and snacks and let people check it out.
Thanks again.

[cdavis1972]

busybody I have miles of uphill work to do. I actually used to be in decent shape years ago. Just got lazy I guess. I am definitely not looking forward to the new diet. My wife is doing it too so it wont be too hard to stick too. Just not much fun.
Thanks for your input as well. I can use all the help I can get.

[busybody]

no worries man. and we all go through it. it's hard to keep a razor edged diet every day of your life.
it just isn't human. the guys that we see in magazines are on so much shit they'll be dead by 35.
we all fluctuate...just comes with life changes and ups and downs.
marriage doesn't seem to help either. dont know why, but all my friends that are married
put on a bunch of weight. it's an epidemic!!! hahahaha.

i would advise also starting a log on here. it's a great way to force yourself to adhere
and keep losing the weight. because if you constantly post that you aren't getting anywhere,
we'll ride you! good motivation from the brosociety.

let us know and keep us updated.

[cdavis1972]

Ok so I printed the eating schedule from cutting 101 and the food list. Dark leafy greens are good right? things like spinach, brocolli and asparagus. but they all have carbs. if i need to take in carbs pre and post w/o and thats it can i eat salads during the day with my chicken/steak...
This is what I had in mind for my diet...

Meal 1...protein shake. 1 banana

Snack....small handful peanuts

Meal 3...chicken breast/steak, 2 h/b or deviled eggs, salad

Snack....few peices beef jerky

Meal 4...chicken breast/steak, 2 h/b or deviled eggs, salad

Meal 5...chicken breast/steak/fish/pork, salad

Bedtime meal will be a protein shake.

On workout days, pre w/o meal will be a protein shake, banana
post w/o meal will be chicken breast, rice, salad

I posted another diet elsewhere but didnt get many responses. I am hoping Gbrice will have a look at this one and give me his opinion.

[cdavis1972]

Ok so I printed the eating schedule from cutting 101 and the food list. Dark leafy greens are good right? things like spinach, brocolli and asparagus. but they all have carbs. if i need to take in carbs pre and post w/o and thats it can i eat salads during the day with my chicken/steak...
This is what I had in mind for my diet...

Meal 1...protein shake. 1 banana

Snack....small handful peanuts

Meal 3...chicken breast/steak, 2 h/b or deviled eggs, salad

Snack....few peices beef jerky

Meal 4...chicken breast/steak, 2 h/b or deviled eggs, salad

Meal 5...chicken breast/steak/fish/pork, salad

Bedtime meal will be a protein shake.

On workout days, pre w/o meal will be a protein shake, banana
post w/o meal will be chicken breast, rice, salad

I posted another diet elsewhere but didnt get many responses. I am hoping Gbrice will have a look at this one and give me his opinion.

[gbrice75]

Need to see times and macros for these meals bro, can't really comment on anything other than food choices at this point.

Re veggies - leafy greens are great. Don't worry about the carb content; most have a negligible amount. Just hit your carb macro with starchy carbs and have your veggies on top of that without worrying/counting them.