Bringing up lagging parts

[gbrice75]

I have terrible front delts and upper/outer chest development, basically the whole delt tie-in. I'm really looking for an exercise to target this area. It doesn't necessarily have to be an isolation exercise; a simple grip change on a bigger lift would be welcome.

Currently, i'm setting up an incline bench in front of the Freemotion machine, with the arms on the lowest setting, and doing a sort of incline fly/delt exercise hybrid.

To further isolate, i'm doing a similar motion standing upright inbetween 2 low pulley's with handles. Can you guys think of anything else/better?

Note - this is in addition to 'meat and potatoes' flat/incline presses with barbell and/or dumbbells.

2nd - rear delts. (starting to see the pattern here? My shoulders suck) There's GOT to be something better than rear delt fly's. I've done em every which way, but never get much out of them. seated bent over. standing bent over. reverse pec dec. Low pulley bent over laterals. Face Pulls. Lying face down on an incline bench, sort of 'rowing' with a wide grip. I've even done tricep kickbacks but without moving my elbow joint. They still suck!!!

Finally - and this is a big one - I REALLY need to thicken up my upper back. Without weight, I can do a variation of a shrug where I feel the target area (lower trap area) - instead of shrugging, squeeze your shoulder blades together but squeeze 'up' moreso than you would with something like a barbell or seated row. However when I add any appreciable load, my body sort of just 'forces' into a normal shrug which feels like it's targeting the upper / 'front' portion of my traps more than anything else.

HELP!!!

[gearbox]

I have found the cable cross overs to be very effective. Put the cables above your head (my.machine its number 7) face machine and grab cables in a cross pattern and let cables stretch your arms well (like your hugging yourself or in a straight jacket) then pull arms out to sides. (Remember to keep arms above shoulder height) many like to drop arms cause you can do more weight, but your using different muscle groups.
Hope I explained it ok. Send from my DROID x

[gbrice75]

^^ have done this but I don't think i've used it with the arms up so high. Thx, i'll give it a shot.

Anybody else?

[gearbox]

Also noticed a difference when I I held or came down slowly on front db raises. I know it sounds obvious but I hold at shoulder height now for a sec or two depending on weight.
Good luck

[gymsoldier]

Chest: Cables low pulley, pulling up above head level.
That worked for me.

Rear delts: I was going to mention the locked arm "kick back", but you've already tried that.
I've found over internally rotating the humerus while doing rear flies works a beaut. Troso at 45 degrees, arms 45 degrees to body works for me.
I concentrate on pulling from the elbows, not lifting the weight from my hands.

Tie in: Seated military press to the front has beefed me up.

Upper back: Seated cable rows with wide bar, elbows high, bar brought above nipple line.
This has thicken up my upper back a lot. Could help with your posterior delts too.

[gymsoldier]

Oh yeah, another thing I've done is had my "cheat" meal day, the day before I do shoulders (a lagging body part as well, coming up nicely as of recent though).

[gbrice75]

Also noticed a difference when I I held or came down slowly on front db raises. I know it sounds obvious but I hold at shoulder height now for a sec or two depending on weight.
Good luck

Just out of curiosity - what kind of weight do you use for db front raises... say an 8-11 rep range? I seem to be absolutely pathetic... I mean I literally think I may have something wrong with my shoulder joints or something - I can do 15lbs, MAYBE 20lbs... but holding them for a brief pause would be tough. It just doesn't seem like a lift where much more weight can be done, at least for me. Note that I AM doing them with strict form, not using momentum or swinging with my back or hips.

Chest: Cables low pulley, pulling up above head level.
That worked for me.

Rear delts: I was going to mention the locked arm "kick back", but you've already tried that.
I've found over internally rotating the humerus while doing rear flies works a beaut. Troso at 45 degrees, arms 45 degrees to body works for me.
I concentrate on pulling from the elbows, not lifting the weight from my hands.

Tie in: Seated military press to the front has beefed me up.

Upper back: Seated cable rows with wide bar, elbows high, bar brought above nipple line.
This has thicken up my upper back a lot. Could help with your posterior delts too.

Awesome info, thanks bro, much appreciated. Funny you mention the low pulley above the head (kind of like a double uppercut motion, right?) - just started doing these and I definitely feel it in the right area. Still no soreness to speak of though. I NEVER get sore in my delts which also worries me. I know soreness is not an indication of a growth stimulating workout, but I'd expect to get sore after doing an unfamiliar lift/motion. NOTHING! It's like my fvcking delts are dead or something.

Tie in: How wide (or narrow) is your grip on the seated MP?

Upper back: I really like your suggestion. I've used a wide grip but don't think i've brought it nearly as high as you're describing here. Will have to try it Tuesday. I would imagine this, with shrugs and maybe a strong clean should build the upper back nicely.

Oh yeah, another thing I've done is had my "cheat" meal day, the day before I do shoulders (a lagging body part as well, coming up nicely as of recent though).

Really? lol! I think i'll pass on this one... i'd rather save it for leg day!

Thanks again guys.

[gymsoldier]

Still no soreness to speak of though

As far as I'm aware, DOMS is the result of the release of arachidonic acid. And the more frequently you work out the less arachidonic acid is released as it doesn't have time to build back up. Explaining why you always get sore going back to the gym after time off. So I wouldn't worry too much about muscle soreness in your delts as they get a hammering on various movements.

Tie in: How wide (or narrow) is your grip on the seated MP?

I'm using a grip width that keeps my forearms perpendicular to the floor when the bar is at the bottom part of the movement. For me its ring finger on the knurling.

Upper back: I really like your suggestion. I've used a wide grip but don't think i've brought it nearly as high as you're describing here. Will have to try it Tuesday. I would imagine this, with shrugs and maybe a strong clean should build the upper back nicely.

Your back is a mass of so many muscles, so try different angles etc. I've got loads of little things I could show you to target certain areas, but they are too hard to explain in text, might get a few vids up on Youtube or something. The amount of back arch and chin position also make a huge difference in activating the muscles with your mind muscle connection.

[deathdodger]

Work out the body part twice a week if your up to it. Try to force as much blood into the muscle as possible by whatever means necessary.

[qkcam]

Hey GB you probably already know all these but i wanted to pass this along as you have been so helpful in my life.. towards the end of the video he does the rear delts with a superset

you know shoulders are paculiar to me.. the do so much yet the actual muscles in the shoulder are small esp the internal stabilaztion muscles -- which i took for granted untill a rotator cuff injury.. on a side note thought of doing any work to support and build the finer stabilizer muscles deep inside the shoulder along with your delts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgjb0...eature=related

[gearbox]

Just out of curiosity - what kind of weight do you use for db front raises... say an 8-11 rep range? I seem to be absolutely pathetic... I mean I literally think I may have something wrong with my shoulder joints or something - I can do 15lbs, MAYBE 20lbs... but holding them for a brief pause would be tough. It just doesn't seem like a lift where much more weight can be done, at least for me. Note that I AM doing them with strict form, not using momentum or swinging with my back or hips.

Awesome info, thanks bro, much appreciated. Funny you mention the low pulley above the head (kind of like a double uppercut motion, right?) - just started doing these and I definitely feel it in the right area. Still no soreness to speak of though. I NEVER get sore in my delts which also worries me. I know soreness is not an indication of a growth stimulating workout, but I'd expect to get sore after doing an unfamiliar lift/motion. NOTHING! It's like my fvcking delts are dead or something.

Tie in: How wide (or narrow) is your grip on the seated MP?

Upper back: I really like your suggestion. I've used a wide grip but don't think i've brought it nearly as high as you're describing here. Will have to try it Tuesday. I would imagine this, with shrugs and maybe a strong clean should build the upper back nicely.

Really? lol! I think i'll pass on this one... i'd rather save it for leg day!

Thanks again guys.

There is nothing wrong with doing 15,20 lbs bro. I actually do cables more often because you habe instant resistance from top to bottom. But when I do dumbbells I usually use 30 lbs sometimes 25 even 35. I weight 188 at the moment

[gearbox]

I have only felt soreness I few times. This was when I worked out with a buddy and we.ended up seeing how long we could hold certain positions like lateral raises. I have also been doing rows with the wide bar that has side.handles on the end of it. So your grip is about 5 inches wider then body on each side. Feet staight lower back arched, chest up and use super light weight and pull in squeeze the rear delts. Imagine there is a credit card back there and your trying to hold it in place. (That's my chiros words) I do about 20 reps hold every other for 5 seconds. And again very light weight.
military press I use dumbbells not machine and I press every other shoulder day

[gbrice75]

Hey GB you probably already know all these but i wanted to pass this along as you have been so helpful in my life.. towards the end of the video he does the rear delts with a superset

you know shoulders are paculiar to me.. the do so much yet the actual muscles in the shoulder are small esp the internal stabilaztion muscles -- which i took for granted untill a rotator cuff injury.. on a side note thought of doing any work to support and build the finer stabilizer muscles deep inside the shoulder along with your delts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgjb0...eature=related

Thx qk!!! I will check out the vid ASAP. I probably do have some issues with stabilizer muscles but am always hoping the big lifts will take care of everything at once.

There is nothing wrong with doing 15,20 lbs bro. I actually do cables more often because you habe instant resistance from top to bottom. But when I do dumbbells I usually use 30 lbs sometimes 25 even 35. I weight 188 at the moment

I'll have to give cable front raises a shot. No way would I be able to handle even 30lbs... like I said, I feel super weak in my delts. You can even see in my avy how small they are... no roundness, look how flat my left delts are. Ugh!!

I have only felt soreness I few times. This was when I worked out with a buddy and we.ended up seeing how long we could hold certain positions like lateral raises. I have also been doing rows with the wide bar that has side.handles on the end of it. So your grip is about 5 inches wider then body on each side. Feet staight lower back arched, chest up and use super light weight and pull in squeeze the rear delts. Imagine there is a credit card back there and your trying to hold it in place. (That's my chiros words) I do about 20 reps hold every other for 5 seconds. And again very light weight.

This ^^ is all with regards to rear delts right? Sounds sort of like wide grip T-bar rows but with lighter weight for delts?

military press I use dumbbells not machine and I press every other shoulder day

I alternate between barbell, dumbbells and machines. You only press every other shoulder day? How often is shoulder day, and what do you do on the shoulder days you aren't doing presses?

[gearbox]

As said above about the stabilizer muscles I do many small exercises to help strengthen my rotator cuff and the surrounding muscles.
Stabilizer are to hard to explain but I can send a pm if you want. I worked closely with a chiro to get them down.
Shoulders I warm up by rolling and do
3 set rotator cuff rotation with only 5 lbs
Shrugs straight bar
Front raises
Lateral raises
Cross overs on the cable machine keeping arms above or level with shoulders (No clue what its proper term is called)
Rows with a wide bar so I can squeeze
Then db shrugs
On military press I will hit them at beginning or end. I actually do them every shoulder day but one week light weight just to get the stretch. Like 50 lbs 10-15 reps all the way up and down. Heavy days 70-85 all the way up and down 6-10 reps. Military puts a great deal or pressure on the rotator cuff specifically so I am very strict and cautious when doing this exercise

[gearbox]

I forgot to add most of my sets are 1 warm up 3 sets but I always burn out (drop down one or two times) with each exercise to get the burn

[gearbox]

Nice vid qk