HCG: Lowest Effective Dose?

[grilla]

Is there any generally accepted idea of what the lowest effective dose of HCG is?

The addition of HCG to my protocol seems to have brought on gyno despite E2 levels
and prolactin being in check; removal of the HCG seemed to reduce the gyno.

I feel fine without HCG but would prefer to keep my sack full...would like to minimize
or eliminate any HCG induced sides.

Would 100iu twice a week keep them producing? What about 100iu once a week?

I know this is going to vary by individual...just looking to insight as to where the floor
may be for an effective dose.

Thanks!

grilla

[bass]

I've heard people doing 125 twice a week, but for me personally went as low as 125 iu eod but the sack suffered! so i am back at 400 iu twice a week.

[steroid.com 1]

Gyno with E2 and Prolactin in check?

What's that mean...?

[grilla]

GD: Gyno came on with Estradiol at 20 (range 3-70) and prolactin at 11 (range 4-15).

[bass]

you sure its gyno? gyno is usually is caused by elevated E2.

[grilla]

Bass: Definitely gyno, unfortunately. Lumps, sore, puffy.

Has been tough to deal with because I feel great and don't want to crash E2 with an unneeded AI.

Latest bloodwork
Total test 888 (348-1197)
Free Test 38 (5-21)
IGF-1 350 (101-267)
Estradiol, sensitive 20 (3-70)
Prolactin 11 (4-15)

grila

[bass]

Grilla, what is you complete protocol?

those are nice looking numbers but if i were you I'd lower my free T, its the double amount your body can handle for continuous basis.

[grilla]

Bass: I inject 30mg test cyp 3x a week subq. That's the whole protocol right now...but I'd like to add HCG back for nutfulness.

How would you reduce free T? Scale back weekly dose?

grilla

[steroid.com 1]

Is your E2 assay "Sensitive"?

Gyno at those serum levels is very odd indeed.

[grilla]

GD: Yes to sensitive assay.

[Vettester]

4.2% of free test is definitely abundant, but nothing IMO you need to freak out about. If you sustain this percentage of free test, you could actually run healthy numbers with your total serum in the 500's. That would still give you a free test score in the low/mid 20's.

[grilla]

V: Oddly, total test was 440, free was 10 (same ranges as above) before I started TRT...is it unusual for free t percentage to almost double on TRT?

grilla

[HRTstudent]

Very odd that you would get gyno with low/normal e2 and prolactin. However, IGF1 plays a very important role in gyno and yours is WAY above range. That could explain why.

Do you know why your IGF1 might be so high?

[bass]

V: Oddly, total test was 440, free was 10 (same ranges as above) before I started TRT...is it unusual for free t percentage to almost double on TRT?

grilla

no its not unusual. simply lower your dose and save money. try to get your free t down to high normal and see how you feel.

[Vettester]

V: Oddly, total test was 440, free was 10 (same ranges as above) before I started TRT...is it unusual for free t percentage to almost double on TRT?

grilla

Yeah, that is indeed quite odd. Did you run other labs at that time with your SHBG and Albumin? Are you taking any supplements, nettle, or any anabolic compounds like winstrol, proviron? Sounds like you have some real low SHBG.
Run your progesterone lab if you haven't yet. Any NOR 19 compounds in the recent past?

[grilla]

HRT: No idea why IGF-1 is so high. I'm on a moderate dose of test cyp...90mg/wk.

Vette: Supplements are 5g fish oil, 5g vit c, 4000iu vit d, vit b6, 400iu vit e, zinc, magnesium...whey protein...that's it.
No anabolic compounds. I'll run progesterone at my next labs. No AAS in close to 20 years. A short pro-hormone run
about 12 years ago.

[Renholder]

You did not mention your current dose, did you?

[grilla]

Ren: 90mg test cyp a week divided into three injections.

grilla

[Renholder]

Ren: 90mg test cyp a week divided into three injections.

grilla

Your HCG dose?

[grilla]

Ren: It was 250iu twice a week before I stopped it.

I am going to try 150iu twice a week and see what happens.

grilla

[Renholder]

Ren: It was 250iu twice a week before I stopped it.

I am going to try 150iu twice a week and see what happens.

grilla

It does sound a little low, but who knows. 250 IU 2X weekly is even a low dose.

My problem with regards to gauging whether HCG works or not, was that I did not notice any changes in nut size even after continuous use for 2 months. During the first two weeks, there were no difference at all and I was 100% sure it did not work, although it had doubled my testosterone levels.

Good luck.

[HRTstudent]

Did your doc ever talk to you/explore about pituitary conditions?

Maybe you have excess GH.

Did you ever get prolactin checked? How was that?

Any past readings on IGF1?

Regardless, if I was in your situation I would probably just lower the dose of testosterone, and if the gyno was getting REAL bad, I would ask my doctor for a short run of tamoxifen/nolvadex for 3-4 weeks to stop the gyno progression. But the tamoxifen, IMO, is not a good long term option; hence, I would lower the T dose.