Trying to put together a big cycle

[GreMos]

Not sure where I post what on his forum but I'll start with guessing here. Anyway, I'm looking at firing together a good 12 week cycle here soon. Looking for opinions as I've been on test for along time now but never really loaded up. Mostly I do 500mg of Cyp a week for 12-14 weeks but I have experimented with stacking sustanon and other various things in there. I'm not a fan of orals due to the liver toxicity thing. So I only take oral ancillaries and no oral anabolics.

I'm not used to this whole steroid forum yet (first post) but I notice everyone really details there cycle for everyone to see so.. For the best responses I'll do that too. So I'm thinking :
-100mg Prop EOD for duration of cycle (mostly for its Short ester)
-1000mg/wk Test Cypionate
-Adex .25-.5 a day or as needed
-Nolva (trying for pharm grade) PCT
-Clen t3 for a month after 12 week cycle along with 40 mg nolva and low doses of Cyp to keep anabolic while I try to chisel down a bit.

Sorry if that's all over the place. I was thinking about adding in deca but the thought of deca-dic terrifies me.. Advice? And any other suggestions on what I should stack (I've never really stacked before) with it and well.. The safety part (ancillaries) would be nice to get opinions on.

Any info would be fantastic. I've achieved amazing results with very low doses and simple cycles as of yet so I figured getting a good stack will give me that extra poundage I want before I hop to leaning.

My diets great. 6oz chicken and broccoli every 2.5-3 hours. I grind up and drink oats in water for my carb source or take waixy maize post workout. Just a tad on that so you know where I stand nutrition wise

[t-dogg]

Why do you want to jump from 500mg's to 1000mg's a week? Thats a pretty big jump. What are you stats? Also you are 22yrs old, you should really be focusing on your training, diet, and sleep.


If that is your diet, thats why you are not gaining anything. Wont matter if you run 500 or 1000mg's. You will lose what you have if anything once you stop. Also if you really weight 290lbs your BF% is WAY to high.

[Live for the PUMP]

Bro, you are 22 years old and 290lbs!!! I'm almost positive that would be defined as..FAT or obese. I don't believe you know how to diet if that's your weight and you say BF is unknown but too high. Think you should get a cutting diet in order and worry about juice when you get to a decent BF! just my opinion..

[GreMos]

5'11"
290 lbs
Lots of fat but.. Well you'll judge when I finally upload a pic
21" arms
54" chest
30" upper leg (quad/ham wrap)
Last I checked my BMI was 25-30%

Dont know what else to say. I'm not worried about 'big jumps' as it is.

[t-dogg]

Then you should worry about BIG SIDES. Also what damage you are doing to your body.

[gixxerboy1]

your screwing yourself for life, staying on test all the time. If your on cyp there is no reason to stack with prop. thats 1350mgs of test.
you clearly have no idea what your doing or taking. At 5'11 and 290 @21 liver toxicity from orals should be the least of your worries.

[GreMos]

I never said I stayed on it? Trust me I cycled 100% appropriately

[Atomini]

your screwing yourself for life, staying on test all the time. If your on cyp there is no reason to stack with prop. thats 1350mgs of test.
you clearly have no idea what your doing or taking. At 5'11 and 290 @21 liver toxicity from orals should be the least of your worries.

Yeah that's pretty excessive...

What are you trying to do, achieve the testosterone levels of a silverback gorlla?

Everything screams danger about what you're doing, man.

[GreMos]

Gents, how do you post photos ?

[GreMos]

That's what I'm here for. Not for asshats to call me a idiot. Haha, ok.. So why not hit those levels? That's why I'm on this forum. Advice.

[stpete]

you're too young and don't know what you are doing. Cycles ridiculous at your height and weight also. You need to concentrate on "chiseling down" now. not while running clen, t3 and low doses of cyp post cycle.

Head over to the Nutrition Section and check out some of the stickies over there. This will serve you much better than 1,300-1,400mgs of test ew.

Good Luck

[stpete]

Gents, how do you post photos ?

There should be a tab saying "add attachments". Click on that. Pretty self explanatory from there.

[GreMos]

There should be a tab saying "add attachments". Click on that. Pretty self explanatory from there.

I'm on my iPhone.. Won't let me.

That and my profile says 'permission denied'.... Not allowed to see my own profile.

But thing is, you all expect and assume I look obese. Do have fat, not obese by any means. I have a lot more size than a lot of people I see posting on here. Not trying to play myself up. Just sayin' an I do plan on dieting but that's my plan for my next cycle. I'd rather get my experience down with growth before I get into my leaning. I already dropped 30 lbs in 3 months with no gear and little to no muscle loss. I CAN do it. I just prefer going through with this MY way.

I'm asking for CYCLE advice. Not advice on whether I should be growing or not.

[Capebuffalo]

The consensus seems to be that at 22 you should be focusing on training and diet.

My diets great. 6oz chicken and broccoli every 2.5-3 hours. I grind up and drink oats in water for my carb source or take waixy maize post workout. Just a tad on that so you know where I stand nutrition wise

This does not give me the impression your diet is great.

Please reconsider the long term effects at your age. Use the time to do more research. And work on your diet.

[GreMos]

The consensus seems to be that at 22 you should be focusing on training and diet.

My diets great. 6oz chicken and broccoli every 2.5-3 hours. I grind up and drink oats in water for my carb source or take waixy maize post workout. Just a tad on that so you know where I stand nutrition wise

This does not give me the impression your diet is great.

Please reconsider the long term effects at your age. Use the time to do more research. And work on your diet.

My diets fine. Keyword 'tad'

[Bigd89]

Your a big guy, hows your big 3 looking?

[GreMos]

Like I said. I KNOW WHERE I STAND. Don't know how much I can stress this. I'm looking for ADVICE and INFORMATION of cycling not lifestyle.

There's no guarantee where I'm going with this even if I said so. Whether I decide to lean up tomorrow or after 5 cycles. Please, don't worry about it. Its on an over my head at that point.

I'm lookin for general information on how I should cycle for huge gains FOR WHEN I DO START. I'm 290 and do have fat but that's for me to look at and decide when I'll lean up. I know all you're trying to do is help and I DO appreciate it but the leaning help has its place for when I decide to lean up.


This pic (if it uploads god knows if it'll work, is of me before losing 30 lbs) so I'm not obese. Just have extra around The edges.

[GreMos]

More than I should have


Don't tell me



I know

[Atomini]

You've definitely got the mass there, man.

But at your bodyfat % you have no idea how horribly unhealthy using AAS (or even things like Clen) are. Unless you have bloodwork to prove me wrong, you are likely wreaking havoc internally. At over a GRAM PER WEEK of testosterone, I guarantee your LDL levels are so high and out of whack in comparison to your HDL levels, you are likely at extremely high risk of cardiovascular disease. Blood pressure is likely through the roof, and I won't even get into aromatase activity...

Not only is there no need to be running testosterone anywhere near that high, you can likely make incredible progress without it completely. You really, REALLY need to lower your bodyfat % before deciding to jump on a cycle. I'm not even getting into age here - i'm just discussing the state of yourself internally with your current stats taken into consideration. Doing cycles at very high bodyfat percentages are surefire methods to wreck yourself and end up paying for it big time later on. Trust me - i've seen it for myself when it happens to other people, and friends of mine who did this!

[GreMos]

You've definitely got the mass there, man.

But at your bodyfat % you have no idea how horribly unhealthy using AAS (or even things like Clen) are. Unless you have bloodwork to prove me wrong, you are likely wreaking havoc internally. At over a GRAM PER WEEK of testosterone, I guarantee your LDL levels are so high and out of whack in comparison to your HDL levels, you are likely at extremely high risk of cardiovascular disease. Blood pressure is likely through the roof, and I won't even get into aromatase activity...

Not only is there no need to be running testosterone anywhere near that high, you can likely make incredible progress without it completely. You really, REALLY need to lower your bodyfat % before deciding to jump on a cycle. I'm not even getting into age here - i'm just discussing the state of yourself internally with your current stats taken into consideration. Doing cycles at very high bodyfat percentages are surefire methods to wreck yourself and end up paying for it big time later on. Trust me - i've seen it for myself when it happens to other people, and friends of mine who did this!

Now you've gone and convinced me I'm dying. Hahaha

Very good. My appointments on the 5th for every last blood work and full body test you can imagine. Last time I did this I was perfectly healthy except for higher than average blood pressure, but it wasn't dangerous by any means. We'll see what the doc has to say this time.

And beings that that's high. What do you suggest? I know I have to lose this excess and up my cardiovascular health (already in the process of helping myself out) but I'm not going to WAIT until I'm leaned up and want to start bulking to gain my knowledge of how far is too far.. Hence why I'm asking now. So for numbers and products.. Suggestions?

[gixxerboy1]

the only good advice is nothing. Sorry its not what you want to hear. But your a mess. Your just to young and stubborn to see it.

[GreMos]

the only good advice is nothing. Sorry its not what you want to hear. But your a mess. Your just to young and stubborn to see it.

I'll take that.

How am I a mess? And I'm not stubborn I'm just asking for a popular cycle. Regardless of age or BF % or my dogs fur colour. Just asking a question and still waiting for an answer haha.

[GreMos]

Now given what everyone's said. Can I ask why everyone's saying no? ... Lose the body fat and it's still a no? Even though noone has any of my tests or is providing me with the right responses a Too why not. You're telling me to never ever touch steroids.. While you're long term on a steroid forum? I'm confused...

Clarify please

[gixxerboy1]

You are stubborn you' re way to obese to be using. Your 22 which already has issues. You have high blood pressure off cycle and your looking to run a ton of test and bulk more. There is no good or semi safe cycle. All bull shitting a side you will be lucky if you really dont have a big medical issue if you try that cycle with intentions of bulking in your current state.

[gixxerboy1]

Now given what everyone's said. Can I ask why everyone's saying no? ... Lose the body fat and it's still a no? Even though noone has any of my tests or is providing me with the right responses a Too why not. You're telling me to never ever touch steroids.. While you're long term on a steroid forum? I'm confused...

Clarify please

Atomini already gave you some medical reasons. Also at a higher bf your at more risk for estrogen related side effects. Your 22 and been going threw cycles already. Your htpa isnt fully developed. keep shutting it down by going on cycles and eventually it will not recover.
Your carring a good 60lbs of extra fat. Thats not healthy for the normal person. Never the less you add in high doses of steroids.

No one is saying never use them. But there is a right time. There are also ways to do it safely with less risk. Your in no shape to be using them at all then you want to take way to much,

[GreMos]

You are stubborn you' re way to obese to be using. Your 22 which already has issues. You have high blood pressure off cycle and your looking to run a ton of test and bulk more. There is no good or semi safe cycle. All bull shitting a side you will be lucky if you really dont have a big medical issue if you try that cycle with intentions of bulking in your current state.

You're misunderstanding me. I'm not trying to be stubborn I'm just getting tired of not getting an answer. Ok. Congratulations you all don't think I should take anything at all. Well great now I realize my cycle I planned for I don't know when is too much. Good! I'll drop it. I planned on doing a cycle before dieting but ok. Maybe I'll wait t after my doctors appointment results before making any decisions on where I should go with this. That doesn't change the fact that what I am posting for is advice on a legitimate cycle. Info on a cycle. So on so forth.

I get it. Diet and be healthy before? Or something along those lines.

Now why is being 22 an issue? And ok, understandable. Blood pressures an obvious issue that I'm already looking to take care of. (doctors appointment was stated plenty a time)

[GreMos]

Didn't notice you replied to that. Disregard last post!

[stevenmcgiver]

Atomini gave you all the reasons why what you are doing is not right.. That's what you're looking for correct? Even with age aside, your looking for trouble based on you BF and cycling alone.

[GreMos]

Well good. Someone help me with dieting.
Haha

[vomariv]

Listen to these guys, don't screw yourself up in the long run. I was eager to run a cycle as well when I was younger but it's better not to rush it and be stubborn.

[slimshady01]

good lord man lose some weight.. I bet you dont have women knocking down the doors for that physique and now you want to go ahead and do more harm to yourself!!

You have enough mass for me and my entire family... Why not get your diet and cardio in check and get shredded up. You will be healthier and look 100000 times better then a michelin man on juice.

Serious bro you are young and destroying yourself and for what? To be bloated and 40% bodyfat?

[Atomini]

I'd just like to expand briefly on the effect that a high bodyfat % has on testosterone, specifically in the department of estrogen.

We already know that a high bodyfat % is associated with all kinds of other undesireable effects (high LDL cholesterol, increased blood pressure, increased strain on the arterial walls, the heart, etc. and i've already mentioned all of these). But what a high bodyfat % also comes with is increased aromatase activity. A lot of people do not realize that although adipose tissue (fat tissue) is not an endocrine gland, it actually serves a role in endocrine function in the body. Aromatase is the enzyme that is responsible for converting testosterone (or any other aromatizable steroid) into estrogen. Adipose tissue serves as a production and storage center for the aromatase enzyme. So, it stands to reason that the higher bodyfat percentage you have, the more aromatase activity in your body will be prevalent. This means more, FAR more, of any aromatizable androgens you exogenously administer to yourself will be converted into estrogen.

Estrogen production in fat rises as body weight increases and as subjects age. Importantly, adipose tissue-derived estrogens partition fat to subcutaneous and breast tissues, while androgens promote central or visceral fat accumulation. Aromatase activity varies significantly by region, with greater expression in adipose tissue from buttocks and thighs compared to that from abdomen and breasts.(1)

You can be sure that likely well over 50% of the testosterone you are administering to yourself is being wasted, as it is converted into estrogen. Likely before most of it even has an opportunity to do its job in binding to androgen receptors in muscle cells. Now, the problems that arise with increased aromatase activity leading to higher estrogen levels? Well, you can look them up yourself but i'll save you the hassle and just fire off a few: increased risk of gynecomastia (bitch tits), increased water retention and bloating (and therefore leading to ever higher rises in blood pressure), increased risk of prostate cancer (the likelyhood flies into the stratosphere with supraphysiological estrogen levels), and ever more INCREASED fat gain! And these are just a few of the results of high estrogen levels. There are plenty more risks associated with it.

References:
1. The Endocrine Function of Adipose Tissue, Frank Diamond, MD, Division of Pediatric Endocrinology, Diabetes & Metabolism, University of South Florida

[t-dogg]

I just wanted to know where babies come from Atomi lol.


Well put man.

[GreMos]

good lord man lose some weight.. I bet you dont have women knocking down the doors for that physique and now you want to go ahead and do more harm to yourself!!

You have enough mass for me and my entire family... Why not get your diet and cardio in check and get shredded up. You will be healthier and look 100000 times better then a michelin man on juice.

Serious bro you are young and destroying yourself and for what? To be bloated and 40% bodyfat?

Don't need women chasin me.. 6 years happily.
An why is everyone thinking that.. I said I experimented with cycles and used proper ancillaries. For the love of god stop assuming I've been taking 1g a day for 450 days straight. I did a cycle before when I was 18 maybe a little irresponsibly but I was young and a idiot. Didn touch it for 3 years or whatever and did small cycles. Plenty of research on ancilerries and all that crap. I CAN NOT CHANGE THE PAST.

[Atomini]

Oh, and I don't want to hear any of this "but i'm using arimidex!" stuff. That's a cop out. Its a nice way of controlling your estrogen levels by temporarily disabling the aromatase enzyme, but at a very high bodyfat %, such as 25-30% or higher the rate of aromatase production is likely a far greater rate than the aromatase inhibitor can inhibit. And then the solution is to do what? Increase your AI dose? Is that really a safe and necessary thing to do? Now we're just compounding all these dangerous practices.

I am all for AAS use. But, safe and responsible AAS use.

[GreMos]

I'm just looking for general knowledge now. Figured I'd ask the guys who know the best threw experience. Well I GOT THE PICTURE THANKS. So please, stop repeating it. I understand. You all don't advise cycling at this age and BF. ok? Great.

I will diet and lean up. I'll make that my #1 priority. Good. I already said that. So please stop telling me im killing myself. Can't change what I did. Can change what I'm doing.

I've been off it for along time now. Was considering starting. Guess I have a head start.

[GreMos]

Wow! Thanks Atomini!!

That's more than what I needed. Awesome. Knowledge is power right. I did ass tons of research on effects on the body, how to take it. Esters. Safety while taking it.

But never took into consideration anything to do with fat... Well. Whole new light being shed

[fit2bOld]

Another old guy getting in the mix: 22 years old + high body fat + high blood pressure + AAS overload = heart attack now and HRT in the future.

IMHO

[gixxerboy1]

Don't need women chasin me.. 6 years happily.
An why is everyone thinking that.. I said I experimented with cycles and used proper ancillaries. For the love of god stop assuming I've been taking 1g a day for 450 days straight. I did a cycle before when I was 18 maybe a little irresponsibly but I was young and a idiot. Didn touch it for 3 years or whatever and did small cycles. Plenty of research on ancilerries and all that crap. I CAN NOT CHANGE THE PAST.

The reason some guys didn't get that impression is in you r first post you said you been running test a long time.

[GreMos]

The reason some guys didn't get that impression is in you r first post you said you been running test a long time.

My fault.. Along time to me is a few months. And that's a regular cycle. Yeah I've done a few since I started back.. Don't even know when the exact or even approximate time to be honest but I had 2 years off. Took a few small cycles and here I am.

I understand now that in my current shape even small cycle were a bad idea but hey... Live and learn