Water Retention and Steroids

[forrie]

I've been on testosterone replacement for years. One facet of injection that drives me nuts is water retention... I gain weight, bloat. When I go back on to rub-on, all that excess goes down after a week or so.

I already piss a lot, drink plenty of coffee, etc. But I wonder what the cause of the water retention really is (ie: the mechanism) and if there is something else I can do or take (safely) that will counteract it.


Thanks!

[austinite]

Welcome forrie,

What dosages are you taking and are you taking a blocker? If so, what blocker and what dosage?

[forrie]

Sorry, I should have included that (duh). I take, usually, 1/2CC bi-weekly.

I have a history of malabsorption with the topicals - recently my testosterone level went down to nearly zero, so back to injection.

In the past (and I don't remember where I got this) I was doing part enanthate and part cyprionate, which seemed to help balance out moods.

I'm not sure what you mean by a blocker, though.

I also wonder if this is actually water retention or it's making me more sugar sensitive and thus weight gain. A good friend of mine that does roids and bodybuilds says it's water retention.


Thanks alot...

[austinite]

Esrtrogen blocker is what I meant. 1/2CC, Im guessing youre taking cyp 200? So your half CC is 100mg of test, correct?

[austinite]

Actually, I don't think this is related to your testosterone usage.

When was the last time you had blood work done? You could be having issues with your kidney or thyroid also. Have these ever been checked?

[forrie]

My other b/w has been normal. I had my thyroid checked a while ago - but we could do it again. I have heard of people getting "watery" with roid usage. But I'm not taking a really large dose, and the symptoms mostly appear after about a month or so. I will ask my doc to check those items out, but I'm pretty sure they were checked a while ago and were fine.

Yes, I'm using 200mg vials (for either enanthate or cyp).

Thanks :-)

[austinite]

Yeah. that's a very mild dose. Definitely check Thyroid, kidneys and estrogen levels.

Best of luck and please, keep us updated, I'm very interested in your results.

[forrie]

Finally, an update.

I met with my new endocrinologist the other day. I mentioned a few things here, which I'll outline (some slightly unrelated or off-topic).

First, he suggested that any puffiness or water retention "may" be due to estrogen, from too much testosterone in my system. We'll see about the testosterone next week, as I had to switch my treatment (rub-on vs injection & 1/2CC vs 1/CC biweekly). I've been doing testosterone replacement for many years - I would "think" that if there were any excess estrogen in my system, I'd see it manifest? I'm not an expert on that, and I suppose I could ask him to test for those levels, too.

I recall reading about reducing or treating excess estrogen levels -- but until I can confirm that is in fact an issue, there's no sense is taking or doing anything about it.

I have had a history of malabsorption with the topical testosterones. I was recently using the new Axiron -- my second bottle seemed to be a dud and my levels went down to 3.x on a scale of 0-10. I was feeling very sickly. I had to up my dose to 1CC injection to feel "normal" again. The first two weeks were great, the second two weeks fine. This week, meh.

Another note, that concerns me (and I realize I'm going off-topic), the first 4 weeks or so of going back to injection, my sex drive was finally back (yay!) -- nothing like walking around and getting an erection when you want to LOL (I'm 43). But this time around, my drive has gone a little flat. And I'm wondering why that happens (yes, I understand there are other factors including psychological), and how some guys out there may be working with that.

Tho I can't recall where I was instructed this, in the past I would mix my injection with 1/2 Cyp and 1/2 enanthate, which "seemed" to have a better mood ratio (anyone know more about that). I have felt a difference -- my new doc rejected that idea, so if I want to continue that I may have to seek someone else.

Note that I have some "spares" of Cyp and Enanthate that I've kept tucked away for emergency - there are a little dated, but they are fine. I pick up a new bottle of Cyp today - we decided to switch from Enanthate to Cyp for now -- though I recall hearing that Enanthate was considered more "anabolic" (I do work out), which I really wonder about - testosterone is testosterone.

He rejected the suggestion about thyroid or kidney testing.

He also said, to my surprise, that some supplements including probiotics can affect your serum testosterone levels. I'm going to research that and see what I find -- I typically take probiotics for a month or so *after* finishing a regimen of antibiotics. I have found it makes a huge difference. But I never heard of them affecting testosterone levels.

Thanks again for the thoughts and input - much appreciated!

[kelkel]

Like austinite said, you need full BW. Visit the HRT forum and look at the sticky titled "Finding a TRT Physician" as examples of blood work are in it. Also read the other stickies as well. I'd be leaning toward an estrogen inbalance at the moment but BW will tell. Make sure your Estrogen test is a sensitive assay. You should also be looking at HCG as well as Pregnenolone and DHEA. Read those stickies!

If you want something that will help testosterone levels begin supplementing with D3. It will help reduce SHBG levels and allow more free T which is where you get the bang for your buck, so to speak. At least 5k per day IMO.

[Times Roman]

Finally, an update.

I met with my new endocrinologist the other day. I mentioned a few things here, which I'll outline (some slightly unrelated or off-topic).

First, he suggested that any puffiness or water retention "may" be due to estrogen, from too much testosterone in my system. We'll see about the testosterone next week, as I had to switch my treatment (rub-on vs injection & 1/2CC vs 1/CC biweekly). I've been doing testosterone replacement for many years - I would "think" that if there were any excess estrogen in my system, I'd see it manifest? I'm not an expert on that, and I suppose I could ask him to test for those levels, too.

I recall reading about reducing or treating excess estrogen levels -- but until I can confirm that is in fact an issue, there's no sense is taking or doing anything about it.

I have had a history of malabsorption with the topical testosterones. I was recently using the new Axiron -- my second bottle seemed to be a dud and my levels went down to 3.x on a scale of 0-10. I was feeling very sickly. I had to up my dose to 1CC injection to feel "normal" again. The first two weeks were great, the second two weeks fine. This week, meh.

Another note, that concerns me (and I realize I'm going off-topic), the first 4 weeks or so of going back to injection, my sex drive was finally back (yay!) -- nothing like walking around and getting an erection when you want to LOL (I'm 43). But this time around, my drive has gone a little flat. And I'm wondering why that happens (yes, I understand there are other factors including psychological), and how some guys out there may be working with that.

Tho I can't recall where I was instructed this, in the past I would mix my injection with 1/2 Cyp and 1/2 enanthate, which "seemed" to have a better mood ratio (anyone know more about that). I have felt a difference -- my new doc rejected that idea, so if I want to continue that I may have to seek someone else.

Note that I have some "spares" of Cyp and Enanthate that I've kept tucked away for emergency - there are a little dated, but they are fine. I pick up a new bottle of Cyp today - we decided to switch from Enanthate to Cyp for now -- though I recall hearing that Enanthate was considered more "anabolic" (I do work out), which I really wonder about - testosterone is testosterone.

He rejected the suggestion about thyroid or kidney testing.

He also said, to my surprise, that some supplements including probiotics can affect your serum testosterone levels. I'm going to research that and see what I find -- I typically take probiotics for a month or so *after* finishing a regimen of antibiotics. I have found it makes a huge difference. But I never heard of them affecting testosterone levels.

Thanks again for the thoughts and input - much appreciated!

read this:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/What..._Good_For.aspx

[forrie]

Those are some concepts I'm already familiar with. But I'll look into his stuff.

In any case, regarding the excess tesoterone and estrogen, this must be the difference between 'free' testosterone and actual -- 'free' I think means what is flowing through you veins that hasn't been processed or absorbed.

I have a "muscle belly" which is from years of lifting improperly (no belt support) - I know guys that have it. I even had a trainer at the time when this started and go figure I never got good advice. Anyway, when I'm doing injections of test. it is definitely more prominent. I hate it. :-)

[forrie]

An update.

I'm seeing a new endo doc, and my dose has been changed back from the rub-on stuff (Axiron) to injection, 1cc bi-weekly, which seems to have brought some stability. My other bloodworks are normal. Except, elevated hematocrit and hemoglobin, which is a known potential affect of this. I will post a separate question on that one.

So, while I still notice some water retention, it's not as pronounced. I think my other docs were just dumb and not really managing this very well.

[ma_fighter]

1cc bi-weekly, so you're being prescribed 400mg of test / week? By an endo?
Thats ALLOT, you'd need an AI with that kind of dosage. I believe the average person produces somewhere around 50mg of testosterone per week naturally, you're on 8x that dose.. well, not quite if you consider the weight of the ester, but still.