Help Me Understand the Cutting vs. Bulking Theory of this Board.

[Metalject]

First and foremost I'm not being a smart ass with this question. I'm simply trying to understand everyone's way of thinking. Well, not everyone but it would seem a lot of people who post here.

From reading a lot of the post on this message board the past couple of months my impression is many if not most seem to believe gear is a lot more important when bulking than cutting. Not only do I not understand this way of thinking it actually blows my mind that anyone would think this way.

I keep reading where guys will say if you're going to lose body fat it's all about diet and you really shouldn't worry about gear. First off, of course diet is important. I agree, you're not going to lose the body fat if you're not burning more calories than you consume. This is a given. However, you're not going to protect your muscle mass without gear and you're sure as hell not going to be anywhere near as conditioned. I don't care how perfect your diet is, the guy using gear will be leaner, harder and more muscular in the end. I cannot count how many post where I've seen people say run your cycle and build some good mass and then start your diet after your cycle is over. In my opinion, this is like saying put a bunch of gas in your car, drive around until it's empty, bone dry, and then hit the gas and go as fast as you can.

Don't get me wrong, I' not saying gear isn't important when bulking. If you're going to be a steroid user of course it's important but not nearly as important as the dieting phase. Every bodybuilder I've ever known in my life, while some of them use a lot of gear in the off-season and some don't, each and everyone of them use a whole lot more when dieting...in fact, I'd say the comparison isn't even close. If this is the case, why do so many steroid.com members often say or imply the opposite? Maybe I'm missing something here and this post got longer than I meant for it to but I'm simply trying to understand the thinking.

[dec11]

most i think, are on the level of thinking, 'only lift heavy and hard when bulking' and 'slow it down when cutting'. i believe that you should be pushing hard and heavy when cutting and using more gear to overcome the lack of strength/stamina/energy due to less cals (think tren a). we all know slamming the muscles hard puts demand on efficient usage of what cals are in the body at that time.
i know for a fact that it was pure drugs that got me through a recent meet (and i mean a fvcking shitload within one week) cos i was shot to pieces with lack of sleep and the associated lack of appetite that goes with that.

that's my tuppence worth on the subject

[songdog]

I believe diet is key.But I tell guys who have a high bf and have not cycled before to just diet.Beacuse being their 1st time on aas they dont need to use it as a diet aid.Now I believe a guy who has been cycling and needs to cut down.He would be better served to cut while on aas so he dont lose that hard earned muscle.But there are always exceptions to this rule.And I always caution with one thing in mind.Humans are lazy by nature and look for the easy way out.So if I see a guy who made a lot of progress and is a little out.I will tell him to go for it.After all the diet industry isnt a Billion dollar biz beacuse people like to sweat.

[panntastic]

I agree with all of the above a few years back I was fat then I dieted and went from fat to skinny fat. Not a good look at all
So I cycled and got big with a dirty bulk. Yet again not a good look.
So I wasn't happy so I just did a simple test e cycle lots of cardio same hard training regime and cleaned my diet up and I looked good.
Using the test e whilst cutting body fat in my personal experience worked really well!

I do have a question for metalject though.

What if the person trying to "cut" or loose BF is of a high BF level 22% and above.
Providing they have a good solid base and don't want to loose their muscle they have under the fat would you advise running a cycle to help with the loss of BF?

[Lunk1]

I can only speak of my poin and not any others but I believe that gear is essential for either cut or bulk. Its the diet that dictated which one you are doing. There seems to be a huge misconception by kids that the type of gear you take determines wether you are cutting or bulking. Kids think (I want to bulk so test/eq or deca and then they think, I want to cut so test/tren or var only crap). Yes certain types or steroids have certain affects on the muscles and the body, eq makes you hungry and Mast hardens muscle fiber and so on but at the end of the day you can cut or bulk on ANY steroid. It all comes down to food!!

[Bonaparte]

It's mostly from having to tell fat slob newbies that they don't need steroids to lose the lard (which is true). But yes, steroids are certainly useful for cutting when you actually have muscle mass to maintain.

[gixxerboy1]

It's mostly from having to tell fat slob newbies that they don't need steroids to lose the lard (which is true). But yes, steroids are certainly useful for cutting when you actually have muscle mass to maintain.

i agree. the guys who are 20-30% bf arent going to need steroids to maintain muscle to get to 15%. and typically alot of the users that are asking those questions are new to even working out. I would not recommend jumping on steroids to bulk either if the guy has been hitting the gym for a few months

[songdog]

You would?

[DeniZen]

First and foremost I'm not being a smart ass with this question. I'm simply trying to understand everyone's way of thinking. Well, not everyone but it would seem a lot of people who post here.

From reading a lot of the post on this message board the past couple of months my impression is many if not most seem to believe gear is a lot more important when bulking than cutting. Not only do I not understand this way of thinking it actually blows my mind that anyone would think this way.

I keep reading where guys will say if you're going to lose body fat it's all about diet and you really shouldn't worry about gear. First off, of course diet is important. I agree, you're not going to lose the body fat if you're not burning more calories than you consume. This is a given. However, you're not going to protect your muscle mass without gear and you're sure as hell not going to be anywhere near as conditioned. I don't care how perfect your diet is, the guy using gear will be leaner, harder and more muscular in the end. I cannot count how many post where I've seen people say run your cycle and build some good mass and then start your diet after your cycle is over. In my opinion, this is like saying put a bunch of gas in your car, drive around until it's empty, bone dry, and then hit the gas and go as fast as you can.

Don't get me wrong, I' not saying gear isn't important when bulking. If you're going to be a steroid user of course it's important but not nearly as important as the dieting phase. Every bodybuilder I've ever known in my life, while some of them use a lot of gear in the off-season and some don't, each and everyone of them use a whole lot more when dieting...in fact, I'd say the comparison isn't even close. If this is the case, why do so many steroid.com members often say or imply the opposite? Maybe I'm missing something here and this post got longer than I meant for it to but I'm simply trying to understand the thinking.

I think you're dead wrong about what the vets recommend here. 99 out of 100 times they are responding to some fat guy asking about a good first cycle for cutting lol, who should be learning how to eat and train first.

[austinite]

i agree. the guys who are 20-30% bf arent going to need steroids to maintain muscle to get to 15%. and typically alot of the users that are asking those questions are new to even working out. I would recommend jumping on steroids to bulk wither if the guy has been hitting the gym for a few months

Just to clarify for everyone reading this. He meant "I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND."

I believe

[gixxerboy1]

You would?

Just to clarify for everyone reading this. He meant "I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND."

I believe

i was just make sure you guys were paying attention. lol.
Thanks i fixed it

[Metalject]

I agree with all of the above a few years back I was fat then I dieted and went from fat to skinny fat. Not a good look at all
So I cycled and got big with a dirty bulk. Yet again not a good look.
So I wasn't happy so I just did a simple test e cycle lots of cardio same hard training regime and cleaned my diet up and I looked good.
Using the test e whilst cutting body fat in my personal experience worked really well!

I do have a question for metalject though.

What if the person trying to "cut" or loose BF is of a high BF level 22% and above.
Providing they have a good solid base and don't want to loose their muscle they have under the fat would you advise running a cycle to help with the loss of BF?

It would depend on the situation and the individual. If a guy was around 20%BF and was generally healthy, no high blood pressure or cholesterol and can maintain that while on cycle during his diet I don't see it being an issue. Granted, some would argue that it's easier for estrogenic side effects to get out of control when BF is a little higher, and they're right, it is easier but it's also very possible to control if you just use a little common sense.

[warmouth]

I am not sure as to where I personally am going with all of this. I am doing my first "bulk" so to speak, but am dieting only as of right now. I am awaiting my BW results. I have never had the need to bulk, but since I am no longer the athlete I used to be, I have no reasonnot to add size. Heck, softball is the only sport I play anymore. But I am 175lbs and planning on bulking till january and try to get to 190-200(far fetched on the 200 I know), and am going to try notto go over 15-17%BF. This is only a test run for me, as it is my first bulk, but I am going about it not 100% clean, as I am not financially stable enough for a 200 or 300 dollar food budget weekly. I am eating MOSTLY clean, but am not watching fats as much as I have been through spring and summer. I will eat good all day, and I might have a donut or bowl of ice cream after dinner(just an example). Basically I am not beingas restrictive and hard on myself as I have been for the last 6 months. I dont care if I add a little fat, as long as I eat anything bad in moderation and not to excessive. I have dropped any super-sets I was doing, and have started doing 3 sets of everything, not 4-5. I quit lifting my regular 4-5 times weekly and have started going 3 times a week. I have started adding 30 minutes of cardio 3X weekly. I dont know if I am doing this right, but I am basically learning what I can and cant do. I know everyone is different, andI got to find what works for me. I will do what I need to do tomake sure I dont just add fat and hardly any muscle. All of this is still so new to me, and I still love every minute.

[Metalject]

I think you're dead wrong about what the vets recommend here. 99 out of 100 times they are responding to some fat guy asking about a good first cycle for cutting lol, who should be learning how to eat and train first.

I should have clarified in my OP that I wasn't referring to what you're talking about. If a guy is really fat, sure, he should simply worry about his diet and losing some fat. I should have clarified from the beginning that I was not talking about this sort of thing.

My point, I've read several replies where it was recommended that the individual completes his bulking cycle, maintains his calories or even increases them during his PCT (which is not always the best way IMO) and after his PCT start his diet. This is what makes no sense to me and I'm trying to understand this way of thinking because there's no way on earth anyone is going to follow such a plan and preserve his muscle mass or be as lean and hard as he would be otherwise.

Last thing, I'm not saying this is the only kind of advice given here...I'm not saying that at all. There are a lot of guys on here who I've found to be pretty sharp when it comes to this sort of stuff.