tamoxifen/nolvadex = jaw growth

[sikkestkuntouthere]

this cant be a coincident anymore

second time im using tamox/nolva after running an AI (first letro, now aromasin)

and i thought the first time it was just natural growth or whatever. NOW im on tamox again and guess what? my jaws growing, and these are VISIBLE changes. it does not make sense at all

my jaw feels "pumped" all the time and looks noticeably bigger from the front and side too.

maybe its the estrogen depletion (antagonist in bone tissue) followed by something that work as agonist in bone tissue?

[austinite]

Did you run massive amounts of HGH?

[Atomini]

Perhaps. Perhaps you just have a different reaction to SERMs than most people do. Remember, everyone will react differently to everything.

It is also possible, that if you just finished a cycle, your jaw muscles have grown due to the natural order of things in regards to muscle growth from AAS. I know my jaw is bigger since starting AAS use years ago. My jaw does become more 'pumped' if I chew a lot, of course due to the natural occurrance of muscle stimulation and the muscle becoming engorged with blood.

[dec11]

Somehow, I doubt it lol

[austinite]

It's possible for the jaw to grow. But Testosterone and other gear will do nothing for jaw growth. Neither will your PCT drugs. HGH is the only thing I can remotely think of that would cause this, and even then it would have to be some extreme doses.

[gixxerboy1]

Perhaps. Perhaps you just have a different reaction to SERMs than most people do. Remember, everyone will react differently to everything.

It is also possible, that if you just finished a cycle, your jaw muscles have grown due to the natural order of things in regards to muscle growth from AAS. I know my jaw is bigger since starting AAS use years ago. My jaw does become more 'pumped' if I chew a lot, of course due to the natural occurrance of muscle stimulation and the muscle becoming engorged with blood.

i've gotten pumps in my jaw where it was hard to eat before.

[Bonaparte]

Your mandible did not grow from Nolva, if that's what you're asking.

[Atomini]

It's possible for the jaw to grow. But Testosterone and other gear will do nothing for jaw growth. Neither will your PCT drugs. HGH is the only thing I can remotely think of that would cause this, and even then it would have to be some extreme doses.

I'm talking about jaw muscles. If you stimulate them enough via chewing lots of food, tough meats, etc. then make no mistake, you're going to stimulate muscular hypertrophy and have growth happening like any other muscle lol. Actual jaw bone growth could only occur from HGH use.

[AD]

i've gotten pumps in my jaw where it was hard to eat before.

I'm talking about jaw muscles. If you stimulate them enough via chewing lots of food, tough meats, etc. then make no mistake, you're going to stimulate muscular hypertrophy and have growth happening like any other muscle lol. Actual jaw bone growth could only occur from HGH use.

i assume those would be during the cycle especially, and less during pct right?

[austinite]

I'm talking about jaw muscles. If you stimulate them enough via chewing lots of food, tough meats, etc. then make no mistake, you're going to stimulate muscular hypertrophy and have growth happening like any other muscle lol. Actual jaw bone growth could only occur from HGH use.

Right. I agree. I'm not referring to muscle. Lower jaw bone, rather. The mandible.

[Atomini]

i assume those would be during the cycle especially, and less during pct right?

Well, i'm just talking in general. My jaw muscles are indeed larger ever since picking up weight training about 10 years ago. All of the eating more every day since then has a stimulatory effect on your jaw muscles, which would lead to growth. I also chew a lot of gum every day, so that may lend to this as well. And of course, if you're on cycle I would expect more growth just like any other muscle in the body while on cycle.

Look at most bodybuilders' jaw musculature. Look at Arnold's over the years lol.

[dec11]

Well, i'm just talking in general. My jaw muscles are indeed larger ever since picking up weight training about 10 years ago. All of the eating more every day since then has a stimulatory effect on your jaw muscles, which would lead to growth. I also chew a lot of gum every day, so that may lend to this as well. And of course, if you're on cycle I would expect more growth just like any other muscle in the body while on cycle.

Look at most bodybuilders' jaw musculature. Look at Arnold's over the years lol.

i think you need to step out of the bb'ing shell every now and then and see the real world mate, i never heard anything so ridiculous in my life lol

[Sharmthetics]

Man if I could get a stronger, more defined jaw then that would be ****ing sick. Facial aesthetics are important at this age.

[binsser]

maybe ur extremely lucky and your gear(cycle) was mistaken and youve recieved massive amount of hgh fatnesssss lol!

[noon]

This is the most odd thing i have heard recently
put some pics of this freaky jaw up

[Swifto]

I have never heard about Tamoxifen increasing the mandible, no, never...

[lovbyts]

Has this NEW member posted yet one message that is not off the wall? What lives under a bridge?

[dec11]

Has this NEW member posted yet one message that is not off the wall? What lives under a bridge?

ha, his user name kinda portraits an image for sure

[lovbyts]

ha, his user name kinda portraits an image for sure

Yup...

[Times Roman]

I do reps of beef jerky.

Yesterday, I did 25 reps with one piece in my mouth, then 15 reps with two piece, then 8 reps with three pieces.
that was the warmup. Then i came down the pyramid and failed with two pieces at 17 reps, and then failed again at 27 reps with one piece.

Today I can't open my mouth.

I think I must have caught tetanus on some rusty gym equipment?

[Sworder]

I'm talking about jaw muscles. If you stimulate them enough via chewing lots of food, tough meats, etc. then make no mistake, you're going to stimulate muscular hypertrophy and have growth happening like any other muscle lol. Actual jaw bone growth could only occur from HGH use.

I can't seem to find any articles supporting this, mind sharing your source.

Also, on the articles I have found on kids with growth conditions treated with hGH their growth was only an inch or so different from their projected high after years of treatment. I believe hGH's reputation for bone growth to be exaggerated. What first sparked by interest was that I thought the basketball players were getting hGH growing up to get ridiculously tall. I know, my mind wanders and creates silly ideas, but investigation typically leads to information

[Sworder]

I do reps of beef jerky.

Yesterday, I did 25 reps with one piece in my mouth, then 15 reps with two piece, then 8 reps with three pieces.
that was the warmup. Then i came down the pyramid and failed with two pieces at 17 reps, and then failed again at 27 reps with one piece.
Today I can't open my mouth.
I think I must have caught tetanus on some rusty gym equipment?

Do you believe you stimulate growth in the jaw muscles best with high reps?? I always considered it a low rep muscle group. Attaching a 45lb plate to a rope with a padded hook in your mouth and then 3-8 reps of that will have your jaw muscles bulging.. Too bad I hide my face or you would see the benefits of the training

[Atomini]

I can't seem to find any articles supporting this, mind sharing your source.

Also, on the articles I have found on kids with growth conditions treated with hGH their growth was only an inch or so different from their projected high after years of treatment. I believe hGH's reputation for bone growth to be exaggerated. What first sparked by interest was that I thought the basketball players were getting hGH growing up to get ridiculously tall. I know, my mind wanders and creates silly ideas, but investigation typically leads to information

Just simply look up the condition known as acromegaly.

[Sworder]

I looked up gigantism instead It says that you become excessively tall from growth hormone. Which doesn't prove that hGH makes you super tall if you take a lot of it.

Just like taking a lot of hGH won't make your hands, feet or face bigger.

Edit: Don't mean to be rude and hope I don't come off that way. But that is an incorrect way to extrapolate information.

[AD]

gigantism is excessive gh in a kid. acromegaly is excessive gh in an adult.

[Sworder]

gigantism is excessive gh in a kid. acromegaly is excessive gh in an adult.

As posted, I have read a lot of studies which link exogenous administered hGH in kids with VERY little growth difference. About an inch at best. Blast a child with hGH, he won't get much taller.

[Atomini]

As posted, I have read a lot of studies which link exogenous administered hGH in kids with VERY little growth difference. About an inch at best. Blast a child with hGH, he won't get much taller.

This is true, because maximum height at which someone will grow to is determined by genetics. Acromegaly and gigantism are two different things.

[Sworder]

This is true, because maximum height at which someone will grow to is determined by genetics. Acromegaly and gigantism are two different things.

Acromegaly and growing larger hands, feet and jaw bone off hGH treatment is different too

Also, genetics is being manipulated indirectly by increasing hormones; since the genetics determine hormones; if you increase with hormone supplementation you are bypassing genetics in a fashion; if you get where I am coming from. I like run-on sentences

[AD]

the common definition of gigantism is kids with overproduction of endogenous gh, usually due to some abnormality with the pituitary, like a tumor. i'm not sure what will happen if you inject gh into a normal kid. here's a para from wiki:

Gigantism, also known as giantism (from Greek γίγας gigas, "giant", plural γίγαντες gigantes), is a condition characterized by excessive growth and height significantly above average. In humans, this condition is caused by over-production of growth hormone[1] in childhood before the long bone epiphyses closes resulting in persons between 7 feet (2.13 m) and 9 feet (2.74 m) in height.

[AD]

if the same tumor/abnormality of the pit occur in adulthood, you get acromegaly. heres another para from wiki



Acromegaly (play /ˌækrɵˈmɛɡəli/; from Greek άκρος akros "extreme" or "extremities" and μεγάλος megalos "large") is a syndrome that results when the anterior pituitary gland produces excess growth hormone (GH) after epiphyseal plate closure at puberty. A number of disorders may increase the pituitary's GH output, although most commonly it involves a GH-producing tumor called pituitary adenoma, derived from a distinct type of cell (somatotrophs).

Acromegaly most commonly affects adults in middle age,[1] and can result in severe disfigurement, serious complicating conditions, and premature death if unchecked. Because of its pathogenesis and slow progression, the disease is hard to diagnose in the early stages and is frequently missed for many years, until changes in external features, especially of the face, become noticeable.

[Sworder]

I am trying to see your logic here :P I was trying to look for the growth hormones levels in acromegaly ppls but this is the only study I found that relates. They are finding acromegaly to have normal hGH levels in most cases. The full article is available in pdf.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1305950/

[Atomini]

Look up Palumboism..... lmao...

[Sworder]

Hahaha I was just wondering if you had a study that you found this information from. I saw a lot of your other posts and they were very meticulous, and figured I would find an interesting read!

[Atomini]

On another forum a loooooong time ago I made a post on Palumboism because it intrigued me. It's an unofficial condition that we've seen in bodybuilders (named after Dave Palumbo who was the first of people to start noticing he looked like that) and nobody really knows why, though people strongly suspect it could be due to the heavy HGH and androgen use.

But seriously, there is a lot of even personal reports and anecdotal evidence that over the long term, exogenous HGH use in supraphysiological doses does cause bone growth in the hands, feet, jaw, etc.

[Sworder]

Yes, and although anecdotal evidence is what usually spawns the idea to test a study it usually doesn't hold much credibility unless it is proven. I usually try to have a peer-reviewed study for most statements so that you don't get hit with. OMG BROSCIENCE

[AD]

found one regarding acromegaly: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8881161

[Firepal]

hmmm I dont really know much about this topic, but i do know ive seen a couple really big dudes that jaws look a little off. I just assumed there was a compound out there that did that to them.

[Sworder]

found one regarding acromegaly: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8881161

95% of all of them are a result of a tumor. They aren't stating the levels of GH which it is achieved. From my article there seems to be a lot which have normal levels or high-normal. About 1iu hGH is produced/day endogenously(don't have source but am sure I can find) so @ bb doses 4 iu you are supplying with four times the amount for years. One would expect a larger amount of change to hands, feet, and face. I think it has more to do with the tumor and mutations in the hGH produced from the pit. But this is all speculation, just what I can deduce from the information provided, but I am no Sherlock. Would appreciate your thoughts too!

[AD]

i imagine it could be the difference in the secretion pattern. normal gh production is in pulses. injected gh is also in pulses. but those produced by tumor is a constant flow that can't be suppressed. the actual levels of circulating gh may be a factor but the pattern of secretion may also be important.

[Bonaparte]

i imagine it could be the difference in the secretion pattern. normal gh production is in pulses. injected gh is also in pulses. but those produced by tumor is a constant flow that can't be suppressed. the actual levels of circulating gh may be a factor but the pattern of secretion may also be important.

Good point. After all, it is the chronic elevation of IGF-1 which cause acromegaly and intestinal growth. So it probably wouldn't be a good idea to split up you HGH dose.