Critique My First Cycle

[Light W8]

Hello all! I've been lurking for a while now, and I've finally decided to take the plunge. I was going to post this in the "New Males" section, but this is more a question about my cycle than a introduction. If I should post there instead, let me know.

So first and foremost, about me:
Age- 26
Ht - 5'6"
Wt- 155lb
BF- ~14%

Since early this year, I've gotten back into training. I used to train and maintain my diet when I was 18-24 (at my prime, I was a little over 160 with BF around 10%), but I haven't seriously hit the gym since then up until early this year... about a year and a half break and it was showing . Over the last 6+ months or so, I've dialed in my diet and began training seriously. Since I began, I've gained about 15 lbs, all while decreasing BF by about 8-10% (weighed about 140 and BF was in the low 20's before I decided to shape up). Not too bad, but nothing amazing.

Reason I'm interested in trying a cycle is curiosity mixed with my desire to put on some more mass. I've always been a smaller guy. Although I can lean out really well, I've never been able to really look "big", even back when I was at my best. For the most part I don't really mind my body type, but I've always been curious if a little external hormonal help can aid my natural genetics.




On to the cycle that I'm thinking of running: (Here is where I want brutal honesty!)

-Test E at 500mg a week for 12 weeks, half Monday mornings, half Thursday evenings.
-Anastrozol 0.25mg EOD for 14 weeks.
-HCG at 250iu 2x weekly for 10 weeks, starting at week 4 and stopping 1 week after my last Test E injection (week 13)
-Stop Test after week 12. Continue HCG for 1 more week after, and Continue Anastrozol for 2 more weeks after last Test Injection.
-PCT for 4 weeks, starting 2 weeks after last Test injection (weeks15-18):
Clomid at 100/50/50/50
Nolva at 40/20/20/20


Thoughts?

[austinite]

Hmm.

OK. If you've been out of the gym for 2 years, you might want to give yourself some more time. Anyway, about this cycle...

Test E should be ran for 12 weeks (that's a cycle).
625 is excessive. 500mg tops.
No need for dbol. Test only for 1st cycles so you can learn how your body reacts to test, as it will be your base for all future cycles. Plus you wont know which compound is causing sides.

AI dose should be every other day from day 1 to your last injection.

Wait time after last injection should be 2 weeks, then PCT starts. PCT I recommend is clomid 100/50/50/50 and novla 40/20/20/20
lastly, consider HCG on cycle, 250iu twice weekly. This will help you recover faster and prevent testicular atrophy.

[binsser]

^^^^^^^^^^^^ whats said above is perfect bud go with that more is not always better in some cases specialy for your first cycle! ;-)

[Light W8]

Awesome, just the kind of advice I was looking for Austinite! Thanks for the quick replies.

First off, It was about a year and a half of no serious gym time, but I picked up again about 8 months ago. I myself was thinking about going a little longer before I start a cycle, but I'm actually sort of getting close to my past weight and BF% numbers (at my best, I was a little over 160 around 10%)... So I'm thinking "Hey why not!"



So, extend the Test E out to 12 weeks, and drop it to 500mg. Just curious, is the 8 weeks just too short for it to work correctly? And I guess the 625 is a bit much for a first time, huh lol
Keep the Anastrozol going EOD from start to finish, and then a full 2 week break before PCT. Should I cut out the AI during those 2 weeks too, or keep it going right up until the Clomid/Nolva?

If I decide to use HCG, can I mix the Test and HCG in the same injection? Again, Should I cut the HCG during that 2 week break, or keep it going until PCT?

Finally... So you recommend no DBol at all for a first timer? I've read that kick starting a Test E cycle with a few weeks of DBol is a good idea.



Sorry for throwing out even more questions lol. But experienced thoughts are exactly what I'm looking for right now. Thanks again!

[songdog]

Yes you stop your ai at your last injection.And you DONT take a break from training.Have your diet checked out in your diet section .This way you will get max results and keep more.

[Lunk1]

Awesome, just the kind of advice I was looking for Austinite! Thanks for the quick replies.

First off, It was about a year and a half of no serious gym time, but I picked up again about 8 months ago. I myself was thinking about going a little longer before I start a cycle, but I'm actually sort of getting close to my past weight and BF% numbers (at my best, I was a little over 160 around 10%)... So I'm thinking "Hey why not!"

So, extend the Test E out to 12 weeks, and drop it to 500mg. Just curious, is the 8 weeks just too short for it to work correctly? And I guess the 625 is a bit much for a first time, huh lol
Keep the Anastrozol going EOD from start to finish, and then a full 2 week break before PCT. Should I cut out the AI during those 2 weeks too, or keep it going right up until the Clomid/Nolva?

If I decide to use HCG, can I mix the Test and HCG in the same injection? Again, Should I cut the HCG during that 2 week break, or keep it going until PCT?

Finally... So you recommend no DBol at all for a first timer? I've read that kick starting a Test E cycle with a few weeks of DBol is a good idea.



Sorry for throwing out even more questions lol. But experienced thoughts are exactly what I'm looking for right now. Thanks again!

HCG is taken sub Q and test is taken IM so no you can not mix the 2.

8 weeks is on the short side for a long ester compound like Test E and you will miss out on some of the best gains between weeks 8-10

Stop your AI with last inject

Dbol will most likely bloat you up and you will lose most of the gains because of it being mainly water weight (and as said test only to see how the body reacts first time)

Def. get over to nutrition and post your diet with micro breakdown...this is the key to growing muscle ....not juice

[TOkidd]

Others have already said some of the things I'm going to say, but perhaps it will help reinforce the point:

- 1st cycles should be test-only. D-bol is a great kickstart, but save it for your second cycle when you know how test affects you. Since it's your first cycle, test alone will give you great gains. You don't need Dbol yet. If you have a tendency to experience a high level of sides from test, the last thing you'll want is the added sides of Dbol. Also, the reason smart AAS users add one compound per cycle is to keep track of which drug is causing which side effect. If you are running Dbol and test at the saem time for your first time and begin experiencing sides, you won't know if it's the Dbol causing it or the test. However, once you've completed a test-only cycle you will know exactly what to expect and if you throw in some Dbol for the second cycle and experience a side you didn't get while on test, you'll know what's causing it, which will help you decide how to treat it, or perhaps even drop it altogether if the side is severe.
- 8 weeks is not ideal for a long-acting compound like enanthate. Because it takes 4-5 weeks for the effects to peak, the gains will just be starting to really accumulate when you stop. Consider a 12-week cycle.
- 1 week is too short an interval between your last shot and the start of your PCT. Again, enanthate is a long-acting compound so it will still be in your blood at high concentrations after one week. Starting your PCT when you still have lots of test floating around your bloodstream is not ideal. I would consider waiting at least 2 weeks to start PCT.
- 500 mg is the ideal weekly dose for a first-timer. If after 5 weeks the side effects are mild and you want to bump it up to 600mg / week, then do so, but start at 500mg and stay there for at leat 5 weeks.
- You have only scheduled 2 weeks of PCT. PCT almost always lasts 4 weeks. Your choice of drugs is fine, but the dosages for the first week should be double what they are for the remaining 3 weeks. That means 100mg of clomid for week 1, and 40mg of Nolvadex. You WILL get some side effects at this dosage, but it's only for a week. For the remaining three weeks you will take it at 50mg clomid / 20mg Nolva. 4 weeks of PCT is the standard.
- It looks as though you won't be taking any HCG. I'm actually using this compound for the first time during my current cycle, and all my reading indicates that it plays an incredibly important role in your post-cycle recovery, and in preventing hypogonadism while on test and other AAS. In my own experience, just two weeks of HCG have brought my nuts back to their proper size and that's something we can all be happy about. Furthermore, if it can prevent the loss of gains post-cycle and get your natural test up and running faster than Clomid and Nolva alone, then I think it's worth the price. With an enanthate ester, you don't have to start taking it until the fourth week of your cycle.
- As far as injecting HCG and test at the same time in the same syringe, I don't know if there's any negative interaction between the two compounds, but HCG is very thin and watery and can be injected sub Q or intramuscularly. What I typically do is take the HCG, twice weekly on days when I am not injecting AAS. I use an 1" insulin syringe and inject in my delt. Painless and easy. I would recommend this method over mixing the HCG with the test and injecting at the same time.

Hope this helps.

[Light W8]

OK, after reading up a bit more on HCG, I think I'll pass on it. It doesn't seem too necessary if the cycle isnt super long and I'm taking the AI regularly during. Its also going to require more pinning (as mixing oils and water-based is bad), and will also require refrigeration for storage (I share a fridge with a room mate). Thanks for the suggestion tho!

So, DBol seems like it can have a lot of side effects, and can bloat you up with water weight. Ill probably stay away from it for a first time run.
Now I know everyone has been saying that I should stick to only Test for a first cycle, but IF I do decide want something to help kick off the cycle (I'm not 100% convinced yet on just solo test, I can be a little hard headed sometimes, sorry)... how about something with lower side effects and no water retention like Oral Tuinabol?

I'm considering OT at 40mg daily (split 10/20/10 with breakfast / lunch / dinner) for the first 6 weeks of cycle. think this is OK, or still a no-go for first cycle?

[Lunk1]

OK, after reading up a bit more on HCG, I think I'll pass on it. It doesn't seem too necessary if the cycle isnt super long and I'm taking the AI regularly during. Its also going to require more pinning (as mixing oils and water-based is bad), and will also require refrigeration for storage (I share a fridge with a room mate). Thanks for the suggestion tho!

So, DBol seems like it can have a lot of side effects, and can bloat you up with water weight. Ill probably stay away from it for a first time run.
Now I know everyone has been saying that I should stick to only Test for a first cycle, but IF I do decide want something to help kick off the cycle (I'm not 100% convinced yet on just solo test, I can be a little hard headed sometimes, sorry)... how about something with lower side effects and no water retention like Oral Tuinabol?

I'm considering OT at 40mg daily (split 10/20/10 with breakfast / lunch / dinner) for the first 6 weeks of cycle. think this is OK, or still a no-go for first cycle?

It seems as if you are missing the point here. ALL steroids have side effects and all of them effect ppl differently. If you run ANYTHING other than test as your first cycle you have NO way of determining what side affects are caused by which compound. Test alone is a great cycle and just because its only ONE compound does NOT mean you wont make great gains on it. If you eat well and train hard test will suit the purpose pefectly. Don't over complicate things.

I know ppl who have run 4 and 5 compounds at a time and still go back to a test only cycle because they have more success.

[freddy1418]

OK, after reading up a bit more on HCG, I think I'll pass on it. It doesn't seem too necessary if the cycle isnt super long and I'm taking the AI regularly during. Its also going to require more pinning (as mixing oils and water-based is bad), and will also require refrigeration for storage (I share a fridge with a room mate). Thanks for the suggestion tho!

So, DBol seems like it can have a lot of side effects, and can bloat you up with water weight. Ill probably stay away from it for a first time run.
Now I know everyone has been saying that I should stick to only Test for a first cycle, but IF I do decide want something to help kick off the cycle (I'm not 100% convinced yet on just solo test, I can be a little hard headed sometimes, sorry)... how about something with lower side effects and no water retention like Oral Tuinabol?

I'm considering OT at 40mg daily (split 10/20/10 with breakfast / lunch / dinner) for the first 6 weeks of cycle. think this is OK, or still a no-go for first cycle?

Good diet, train hard, rest up, with test only at 500mg a week and trust me you wont be dissapointed... leave something for the future lol... trust me the advise your getting is for a reason...

[TOkidd]

So you don't want to take HCG because you'll have to give yourself two additional injections per week? If that's the reason, it's a really bad one. The more I read about the stuff, the more I realize how important it is for post-cycle recovery and maintaining your natural test while on-cycle. Besides, you inject it with an insulin syringe - you don't even feel it. I don't see why your roommate has to know you have a tiny vial of HCG in your common fridge. Very small and easy to hide, and you can just tell him it's some prescription or something. Seems like you may just be looking for an excuse to avoid a couple extra pins.

I hope you read my post above and have taken what I said about your PCT plan seriously. And I would really consider getting more test and going a full 12 weeks.

[stpete]

Just the test for now like everyone else is advising. It's solid by itself.

[Light W8]

Okay, okay, Ill drop the orals and go Test only for the first run... Told you all that I'm a bit hard headed lol.

TOkidd, I guess you're right, I am making up excuses and being a bit closed minded about HCG... What a few more pins. Im going to go back and see if I can find more info about it. maybe I'll change my mind. And I'm going to try and work in the other 2 weeks of test for a total of 12.

[Sworder]

HCG should be able to be absorbed IM according to literature.

[Lunk1]

HCG should be able to be absorbed IM according to literature.

Yes and test CAN be injected Sub Q but it's not the best method, besides the op was talking about mixing them in the SAME inject. I don't think its a good idea to mix an oil base and a water base together.

[austinite]

Yes and test CAN be injected Sub Q but it's not the best method, besides the op was talking about mixing them in the SAME inject. I don't think its a good idea to mix an oil base and a water base together.

What?

[Sworder]

Yes and test CAN be injected Sub Q but it's not the best method, besides the op was talking about mixing them in the SAME inject. I don't think its a good idea to mix an oil base and a water base together.

I don't believe there would be complications from mixing oils and water bases. Testosterone replacement therapists sometimes choose to do subcutaneous injections and claim that it grants the patient more stable levels. The doses they use are not the same as a AAS cycle though. I have heard speculation about aromatase activity being a lot higher if you inject testosterone subQ and at 500-1000mg/week it might get out of control. Personally I have never tried injecting oils subQ and I never would, I believe the PIP would be pretty high too and the effect it would have on the release of the ester might be affected

[Lunk1]

What?

HCG being mixed with BAC and oil based test...you think they should go in the same pin and be injected IM???

[Lunk1]

I don't believe there would be complications from mixing oils and water bases. Testosterone replacement therapists sometimes choose to do subcutaneous injections and claim that it grants the patient more stable levels. The doses they use are not the same as a AAS cycle though. I have heard speculation about aromatase activity being a lot higher if you inject testosterone subQ and at 500-1000mg/week it might get out of control. Personally I have never tried injecting oils subQ, I believe the PIP would be pretty high too

I would worry about dispersment as well...

[austinite]

I was referring to water and oil statement.

HCG i run subq

[Lunk1]

I was referring to water and oil statement.

HCG i run subq

Right but unless I misread It appeared to me the op asked about putting HCG and test in the same pin and injecting IM

[Sworder]

HCG being mixed with BAC and oil based test...you think they should go in the same pin and be injected IM???

The Bac water is just sterile water and BA, the oil and BB nor the testosterone shouldn't affect the integrity of the hCG. I would shake it before though for some pretty bubbles and a more consistent injection speed.

[Lunk1]

The Bac water is just sterile water and BA, the oil and BB nor the testosterone shouldn't affect the integrity of the hCG. I would shake it before though for some pretty bubbles and a more consistent injection speed.

I guess really no harm but I have NEVER heard of it done. YOU????

[austinite]

I never do it. But yes, you can mix them.

[Sworder]

I guess really no harm but I have NEVER heard of it done. YOU????

Yes, I usually mix them if I am lazy. My 5kIU vials are mixed with 3ml Bac water so the measuring isn't going to be as accurate. Especially as I like low dose hCG around 250-500IU.

[Lunk1]

Yes, I usually mix them if I am lazy. My 5kIU vials are mixed with 3ml Bac water so the measuring isn't going to be as accurate. Especially as I like low dose hCG around 250-500IU.

So then you (when your lazy) are doing your HCG IM??

[austinite]

Slin pins are fun tho!

[Lunk1]

Slin pins are fun tho!

Wish the oil would push through one worth a shit...wouldnt that be nice??

[austinite]

Wish the oil would push through one worth a shit...wouldnt that be nice??

lol, yeah. I'd be ready for my next injection by the time it's done.

[Sworder]

So then you (when your lazy) are doing your HCG IM??

Yes, most of the time I include the hCG in my GHRP-6 injections but two rubber stoppers for a slin pin takes it's toll. Am not saying it hurts, not like I start tearing up if you are implying that..

Ok, starting to get off topic. But yes, I do my hCG IM sometimes. I believe the difference in absorption difference is trivial if not better IM.

[Lunk1]

Well op....we both learned something here today. Those are good days imo

[Sworder]

Wish the oil would push through one worth a shit...wouldnt that be nice??

I do my bicep injections with a slin pin. Backload it and heat it up. Goes through fine, the oils I use now have an EO carrier so that helps the viscosity.

[Lunk1]

I do my bicep injections with a slin pin. Backload it and heat it up. Goes through fine, the oils I use now have an EO carrier so that helps the viscosity.

Hey Sworder..how bout stopping at the top at the new male member forum and itroduce yourself...maybe a little bout what makes ya tick...nice having ya here.

[Sworder]

Hey Sworder..how bout stopping at the top at the new male member forum and itroduce yourself...maybe a little bout what makes ya tick...nice having ya here.

I will, sorry I haven't yet. Thanks, glad to be here!

[Mr Bolic]

I read somewhere that continuous use of hcg througout a cycle would de-sensitize the nuts reacting to it (going by memory here... I may have that statement arse-about)...

I have been pinning the hcg the last week of test & carrying through to the start of PCT.

[Sworder]

I read somewhere that continuous use of hcg througout a cycle would de-sensitize the nuts reacting to it (going by memory here... I may have that statement arse-about)...

I have been pinning the hcg the last week of test & carrying through to the start of PCT.

That is old literature that supports that notion, where they used 5000IU/week or 5000IU 2-3 times/week. New research supports that 250-750IU/week will maintain intratesticular function which is what cyclers want. Not the ones on bikes..

[Mr Bolic]

Yep, I just had a read up on the later studies - Ill start knocking 250iu from wk4 from now on!

Thanks Sworder!

[Light W8]

Hmm, here's something I read about mixing oils and water: Pretty much it said that the oils can encapsulate the water in the injection site, and allow the possibility for bacteria to grow within the encapsulated water (assuming your water or injection procedures somehow ended up getting contaminated), thus making oil/water mixes more prone to abscesses... something to think about. Think there's any truth to that?

[TOkidd]

I wouldn't be so much concerned about the mixing of oil and water as I would the accuracy of dosing the HCG. I don't know about the others here, but I only dilute my HCG with a couple mls of water, so I inject less than 1/10th of a ml twice-a-week to achieve 500IU weekly. Tough to measure accurately in a 3ml hype.

[Light W8]

True enough, TOkidd. That point alone pretty much makes it so you should use slin pins for HCG and shoot it subQ. Still on the fence about whether I should go with the HCG...