test prop and sust cycle

[boxa06]

hey guys!

i have a close friend that is putting together his 4th.

stats are

5'9
87kgs
15% bf

previous cycles
test prop
test e and winny
test e and tren

He has never gone past 600mg test per week which was test e. He has Test prop and sust, also letro, clomid and nolva on hand.

His cycle goal is a lean bulk and would like to stick with a test only cycle but dose higher than 600mgs to see how his body will react.

It will be a 12 week cycle and i have suggested to following..

test prop 600mg weeks 1-4
test prop 300mg weeks 5-8
sust 250 375mg weeks 5-8
sust 250 750 weeks 9-12

pinned eod

the doses can change but i've suggested to use the prop towards the start of the cycle as it is a faster acting ester.

thoughts???

[Lunk1]

Ok. I have questions? Why the prop 5-8? I can understand the front load but not sure why to keep it in there after the long esters start to work.

Why not start the prop and the sus at the same time, again just using the prop as a front load, dropping it after week 4 and then being just Sus from 4-12??

[warmouth]

Me personally, I would stick with one or the other. Frontloading sustenon is bound to make your blood levels go nuts. I like Prop, but I know many like blends. If you are determined to up the test for this cycle, you can do that with the prop as well. One guy on here is running 200mgs EOD. Just a thought. But you know alot more than me I m sure, I just am a huge fan of the propinate ester. That stuff is the bomb!

[MickeyKnox]

hey Boxa,

any ai on cycle or hcg? and im assuming the convoluted cycle is because that's all your buddy has on hand, and he's trying to make the best of what he has. am i correct? if not, im with Lunk and warmouth on this.

[stpete]

Ok. I have questions? Why the prop 5-8? I can understand the front load but not sure why to keep it in there after the long esters start to work.

Why not start the prop and the sus at the same time, again just using the prop as a front load, dropping it after week 4 and then being just Sus from 4-12??

^^^This last sentence is what i would do. I noticed that you're wanting to keep everything under a gram but i wouldn't be concerned about it at the beginning. Or you could keep the sus a little lower till week 4.

[boxa06]

Ok. I have questions? Why the prop 5-8? I can understand the front load but not sure why to keep it in there after the long esters start to work.

Why not start the prop and the sus at the same time, again just using the prop as a front load, dropping it after week 4 and then being just Sus from 4-12??

The reason is to slowly come off prop and onto the longer ester. He doesn't have enough sus to run a high dose for 8 weeks after the front load. Also the longer esters in sust will take at least 3 weeks to release into the blood stream.

Me personally, I would stick with one or the other. Frontloading sustenon is bound to make your blood levels go nuts. I like Prop, but I know many like blends. If you are determined to up the test for this cycle, you can do that with the prop as well. One guy on here is running 200mgs EOD. Just a thought. But you know alot more than me I m sure, I just am a huge fan of the propinate ester. That stuff is the bomb!

I agree to stick with one ester alone as its easy to keep stable blood levels but this is what he has on hand to work with.



Any other suggestions how I can help him put together this cycle in the most effective way?

[MickeyKnox]

post his totals for each aas on hand.

[Lunk1]

^^^^ maybe there is enough for a solid short ester short cycle???

[boxa06]

hey Boxa,

any ai on cycle or hcg? and im assuming the convoluted cycle is because that's all your buddy has on hand, and he's trying to make the best of what he has. am i correct? if not, im with Lunk and warmouth on this.

Hey mate! Ai on hand and may pick up some HCG if we can find it again.

You're correct this is what is on hand to run with

^^^This last sentence is what i would do. I noticed that you're wanting to keep everything under a gram but i wouldn't be concerned about it at the beginning. Or you could keep the sus a little lower till week 4.

Hey buddy! Nice log by the way..

He doesn't have enough sus to run a good dose all the way.

Should he get more sus or is what I suggested ok?

[boxa06]

I'll post how much of what he has soon..

[MickeyKnox]

I'll post how much of what he has soon..

that would be stellar Boxa. then a more educated suggestion could be given based on what's immediately available.

[Lunk1]

I have to aske the UNasked question. WHY the need to increase his test dose so high. Just a science experiment???

[Bulkn]

I would get more sus that cycle looks too messy how it is.

[boxa06]

Ok so he's got 30ml prop at 200mg per ml and 30ml sus at 250ml per ml.

600mg is the most he's done stacked with other compounds and would like to do test only at a higher dose.

[boxa06]

I have to aske the UNasked question. WHY the need to increase his test dose so high. Just a science experiment???

To get more gains etc.

[Lunk1]

To get more gains etc.

Did he not get gains at a lower dose? Do you/he think that bhe will see a significant diff going from 600 to 750?

[MickeyKnox]

Ok so he's got 30ml prop at 200mg per ml and 30ml sus at 250ml per ml.

600mg is the most he's done stacked with other compounds and would like to do test only at a higher dose.

he would likley have to run it 200mg higher than the last time to see any significant differences i would think. if so, he could run sust 200mg/eod until it runs out then run prop 200mg/oed until the end of his cycle.

[Lunk1]

My math is usualy wrong but at 750mg of prop he gets right at 8 weeks. Granted there is some wasted but still looking at a solid 7.5 weeks of prop at 750 mg per week,

Is this wrong...im kinda tired and math and me have never gotten alon lol

And 10 weeks of sus.

Could def do as Mick said..run the sus for 10.5 weeks at 750 mg per week and just finish off the last 2 weeks with prop at 750 mg.

[warmouth]

he would likley have to run it 200mg higher than the last time to see any significant differences i would think. if so, he could run sust 200mg/eod until it runs out then run prop 200mg/oed until the end of his cycle.

That sounds like an idea as well!

[boxa06]

Ok I just spoke to him and he would prefer to run for 12 weeks to give him enough time to grow. He only does 1 per year so he will make the most of it.

How's about this idea..

Week 1-4 3ml prop per week plus 1ml sus (850mg total)
Week 5-12 3.25ml sus per week (812.5mg total)

This will give a front loading effect with the cycle being mostly a sus cycle.




THANKS FOR ALL THE COMMENTS TO FAR GUYS

[MickeyKnox]

Boxa, honestly, just run the sust out and then add the prop so you finish with a 3 day ester and transition into the pct lickity split. that's my best advice brother.

[boxa06]

Did he not get gains at a lower dose? Do you/he think that bhe will see a significant diff going from 600 to 750?

He didn't get much from the last time he ran 600 as compared to the time before that. He is hoping for more gains by upping the test.

[boxa06]

Boxa, honestly, just run the sust out and then add the prop so you finish with a 3 day ester and transition into the pct lickity split. that's my best advice brother.

That's something to think about.. Not a bad idea! I'll have a chat to him tonight and get back to you guys

[austinite]

I wouldn't mess with trying to piece this together. I'd just wait and get more gear and run it right. Not a fan of the ramping.

[MickeyKnox]

he's not ramping if he runs it like i initially laid out. sust first then finish with prop.

[Lunk1]

Ok I just spoke to him and he would prefer to run for 12 weeks to give him enough time to grow. He only does 1 per year so he will make the most of it.

How's about this idea..

Week 1-4 3ml prop per week plus 1ml sus (850mg total)
Week 5-12 3.25ml sus per week (812.5mg total)

This will give a front loading effect with the cycle being mostly a sus cycle.




THANKS FOR ALL THE COMMENTS TO FAR GUYS

Is there a rush to get the frontload? If not I still like the idea of running sus to the end and then just finish the last few weeks with prop. More simple and out of his system faster allowing for a quicker transition to PCT.

[austinite]

he's not ramping if he runs it like i initially laid out. sust first then finish with prop.

lol, maybe Im blind, but I cant see it. What did you suggest that keeps him above 600mg EW?

[MickeyKnox]

lol, maybe Im blind, but I cant see it. What did you suggest that keeps him above 600mg EW?

he would likley have to run it 200mg higher than the last time to see any significant differences i would think. if so, he could run sust 200mg/eod until it runs out then run prop 200mg/oed until the end of his cycle.

....

[austinite]

Gotchya. Good call, Mickey.

[boxa06]

Ok so what ya think of this then..

Weeks 1-8 sus 3.5ml per week (875mg)
Weeks 9-12 prop 4-5ml per week (800-1000mg)

Then hit pct straight away

[MickeyKnox]

Ok so what ya think of this then..

Weeks 1-8 sus 3.5ml per week (875mg)
Weeks 9-12 prop 4-5ml per week (800-1000mg)

Then hit pct straight away

i like

[Lunk1]

Ok so what ya think of this then..

Weeks 1-8 sus 3.5ml per week (875mg)
Weeks 9-12 prop 4-5ml per week (800-1000mg)

Then hit pct straight away

I can live with that lol...got the AI correct????

[boxa06]

Faaaark I love this forum

Thanks for your help!

[boxa06]

I can live with that lol...got the AI correct????

Lol letro on hand man

[Lunk1]

Lol letro on hand man

Tell him good luck...maybe he can start an account and log his cycle...be a good 1 to watch.

[boxa06]

Tell him good luck...maybe he can start an account and log his cycle...be a good 1 to watch.

It would be good to watch.. I sent him to link to this thread so he'll be reading this lol he should do a log

[boxa06]

One more thought...

How about also adding prop to the first week or 2 to get things going faster?

[Lunk1]

One more thought...

How about also adding prop to the first week or 2 to get things going faster?

I always do but I would do it the 1st 4 weeks and then drop it.