Kidney issues - how to avoid in the future?

[Until_It_Sleeps]

Just got back from the emergency room; I have a raging kidney infection. I've been in pain for two weeks and had to withdraw from the show I wanted to do, so I'm done for the year. This morning it was much worse and I knew I had to be seen.

I didn't have a UTI, just the kidneys, so is this one that can be blamed on the steroids? I did use tren at 200mg/wk for 8 or 10 weeks. I hear that's the one most likely to cause kidney problems. But that was also the one that gave me the best results.

So I'm just supposed to take antibiotics for ten days, and they gave me a shot. Anyone else have kidney problems after a cycle? Do you just keep antibiotics on hand?

[Phased]

I would use liv52 or Liverlonger and NAC
Google them..good stuff

Sorry to hear about this misforutune.

[Sworder]

Sorry to hear that, but dieting, training, and AAS put a strain on your organs so I would say that it's a combination. Especially for a woman as your "hormone stasis" is very different, placing them in an androgenic environment can surely cause too much stress.

Good luck on your recovery!

Sick avatar

[Until_It_Sleeps]

Yep, I can blame the tren for that avatar too!

Right now my plan is to stay off everything for a month or so, try to maintain weight, lower protein intake (I stopped all shakes) and do moderate carbs, then in December start doing my thing again.

[Sworder]

Haha, the drugs only do so much! It shows a lot of hard work and determination. That's what gets you to that point!

[Atomini]

Tenbolone does not spontaneously generate bacteria and/or viruses in your kidneys. It is absolutely impossible for anabolic steroids of ANY SORT to cause infections in specific organs.

A kidney INFECTION is from viruses or bacteria or other pathogens attacking and infecting the cells of your kidneys.

Also, the whole issue regarding Trenbolone and placing stress on the kidneys is a load of crap. I've explained this in my Trenbolone thread. All AAS to a certain extent can place stress on the kidneys. But never EVER can any anabolic steroids cause infection...

With this being said, it would benefit you to get off any and all anabolic steroids, drugs, and medication so as to reduce any unneeded strain on the kidneys, with the exception of whatever the doctor has you on (antibiotics for the bacteria).

[Atomini]

Copypasted from my Trenbolone thread:

Q: I've heard that tren is harsh on the kidneys and people report urinating very dark unrine when on tren? Is this a bad sign?

Kidney damage has been a commonly touted effect of tren. I can say that tren is no harsher on the kidneys than most AAS. The origin of this rumor comes from the fact that often while on a tren cycle, you will find your urine becomes a very dark rusty color (this does certainly happen with me). It is not because your kidneys are being damaged. That dark rusty color are the metabolites of tren being excreted out of your body in your urine. Trenbolone seems to oxidize to a dark rust color very easily, even under refrigeration. The discolored urine tends to happen often, with no signs of renal toxicity. Also, trenbolone acetate is still widely used in animals for carcass weight increase. There seems to be no mention of kidney toxicity in animals, or with the few historical human trenbolone preparations. So basically, what some think is blood in the urine is actually just the metabolite of tren coloring the urine much darker. Tren itself before it is metabolized has a very amber color, hence why it is always amber in the vials it is contained in.

For further kidney protection, look up and buy something called UriCare by Himalaya (same company that makes Liv 52). See here: http://www.himalayausa.com/healthhelp/kidneysupport.htm

[Until_It_Sleeps]

I've never had dark urine, and even now I don't have any sort of "urine" issues. No pain, burning, etc. I wonder, if a bug got in my body somehow, if the kidneys were already weak or stressed, would they be more susceptible to infection?

I'm off everything now. I also took aldactone for 2 weeks and quickly gained a lot of water after the show; not sure if that has anything to do with all this.

I did mention that I took AAS (first time I have ever admitted this to a doc). They asked about my periods and I said I didn't get them anymore and they said they had to put down a reason why, and I didn't feel like making something up. In the past I've lied and said "Oh, I just got it last week" but on the off chance this turned out to be some female issue, I thought I'd mention it. Plus that way they wouldn't make me do a pregnancy test (just costs more).

But, they never brought it up as a possible cause of this...I did have high blood pressure for the first time ever and they said AAS causes that, but that's not really my biggest worry right now.

[Until_It_Sleeps]

And I did reuse pins for a week (see thread on pharmacy refusing to sell to me)...I did shoulder and glute shots and was a lot more sore than usual afterwards. My shoulder pain even kept me out of the gym. That was the main reason I decided not to do the next show. So maybe I got an infection that way.

[Atomini]

And I did reuse pins for a week (see thread on pharmacy refusing to sell to me)...I did shoulder and glute shots and was a lot more sore than usual afterwards. My shoulder pain even kept me out of the gym. That was the main reason I decided not to do the next show. So maybe I got an infection that way.

I'm not saying this definitely is what may have caused the infection, but its very well possible. After all, sharing needles is one of the highest causes of Hepatitis infection of the liver. I would not be surprised at all if you contracted a kidney infection from re-using needles. Not always do the risks of needle re-use result in abscesses at injection sites. The pathology of these infections can be difficult to track. I was going to think perhaps you had a urinary tract infection that you didn't know of that spread to the kidneys, but now that you mention needle re-use.... that could likely have been the culprit.

Either way, now you know your lesson on not reusing needles!

[Until_It_Sleeps]

Yeah! Not a good experience! I tried to clean them with the alcohol swabs but it probably wasn't enough. But now that I think about it, this all started around the time I used those pins, and it got much worse after I did the delt shot! I ordered a box of pins online but it took almost 3 weeks to arrive; finally arrived after I'd already decided to stop the prep. I was in too much pain to get morning cardio in; now I'm looking at 3 days off from the gym completely.

[t-dogg]

Sorry to hear this. Did you not order from my pm I sent you? Reusing needles could very well have something to do with this.



You cant clean them btw. Thos swabs can actually leave small particals behind when wiping. So you could be putting swabs threads into your body.

[Until_It_Sleeps]

I never got your PM; it kept coming up as spam, remember? Never did get fixed. So I ordered from Amazon, but it took 2 weeks.

[Until_It_Sleeps]

Sweet, I guess this means I can do all the tren I want now as long as I don't reuse.

[Atomini]

Sorry to hear this. Did you not order from my pm I sent you? Reusing needles could very well have something to do with this.



You cant clean them btw. Thos swabs can actually leave small particals behind when wiping. So you could be putting swabs threads into your body.

Yup, precisely.

I just do not understand the mentality behind re-using needles. Boiling the pins, wiping them with alcohol, exposing the pins to an open flame to try and sterilize, etc. DO NOT WORK and may very well create whole new issues after doing these things to the pins. Every time I see one of those threads titled 'Is it OK to re-use syringes/needles?' pop up once in a while, it makes me cringe. I just don't get how people could even THINK of doing such things.

If you REALLY knew on a microscopic level what was going on in the syringe and on the pin when you leave a needle out for a while and then re-use it, it would scare the shit out of you to know you're sticking that crap INTO your body. I have no doubt that your kidney infection had something to do with this now that you're describing more detail between the time you re-used needles and when you had to go to the hospital. Let this be a lesson to everyone thinking of re-using needles!

Any time I see one of those threads come up from now on, I am going to copypaste a link to this thread here.

[Atomini]

Sweet, I guess this means I can do all the tren I want now as long as I don't reuse.

Exactly lol.

I've run 800mg/week of Trenbolone with NO kidney issues at all. Bloodwork to prove it. Many others have run way more than that (a gram or more per week) and were good to go too.

[t-dogg]

I never got your PM; it kept coming up as spam, remember? Never did get fixed. So I ordered from Amazon, but it took 2 weeks.

LOL, resent.

[t-dogg]

Sweet, I guess this means I can do all the tren I want now as long as I don't reuse.

Robatusin fixes everything lol.

[Atomini]

Robatusin fixes everything lol.

Robitussin does a hell of a lot more than fix things.... especially if you run it at 250mg or more (dextromethorphan).... lol and that's all I am going to be saying on this subject here.

[stpete]

OP never mentioned sharing needles. Unless i missed it. She said she reused pins. Not the safest or cleanest practice, but i've done it too w/no issues at all. Granted, it was for a short time as i was waiting on my supply, and i would not recommend this, but i never had any issues. And even so, it would start at injection site.

Tren is highly toxic. I love the stuff but also hate it.

[stpete]

Exactly lol.

I've run 800mg/week of Trenbolone with NO kidney issues at all. Bloodwork to prove it. Many others have run way more than that (a gram or more per week) and were good to go too.

If anyone needs that much tren they have issues! Maybe you should refer people to the workout/diet section more often. I can;t think of a single person that would want to run that much tren. Unless you are pre comp. Otherwise, why?

[Until_It_Sleeps]

Robitussin? I missed something...

[t-dogg]

Robitussin? I missed something...

Its a joke. Alot of old people say robitussin fixes everything. Atomini knows lol.

[songdog]

I wish you well take some time off then come back better than ever

[AD]

I would use liv52 or Liverlonger and NAC
Google them..good stuff

Sorry to hear about this misforutune.

aren't these for the liver? or do they work for kidneys too?

[AD]

to op, did your dr do any sort of imaging of your kidneys? ultra-sound? IV pyelogram/urogram? the kidneys are usually very clean organs, and can only get infected if the bacteria come from the blood or from the urinary system(up the bladder). it is very unlikely in your case to be from the blood, cos that would mean septicemia and you would be very sick.

from the bladder, its possible for the bacteria to not show symptoms in the lower tract and just manifest in the kidneys if you have some kidney abnormalities, like a renal cyst, or stone, or any congenital malformation.

anyway, the treatment will still be the same, a long course of antibiotics. but knowing the underlying reason will allow you to predict your chances of recurrence.

[Sworder]

aren't these for the liver? or do they work for kidneys too?

I am sure you were aware of this, but, yes, NAC has been shown to be beneficial to kidney function. Questionable if it protects against infection but you can use NAC for kidney protection to if you feel inclined to do so!

The effect of N-acetylcysteine on renal function, nitric oxide, and oxidative stress after angiography
http://www.nature.com/ki/journal/v64.../4494143a.html

The effect of N-acetylcysteine on renal function, nitric oxide, and oxidative stress after angiography.

Treatment with NAC significantly improved the effect of contrast media on creatinine clearance, and maximal beneficial effect was observed 24 hours after angiography. Creatinine clearance (mL/min) was 59.5 plusminus 4.4, 64.7 plusminus 5.8, and 58.7 + 3.9 at baseline, 24, and 96 hours after angiography in the NAC group, respectively, and 65.2 plusminus 3.2, 51.5 plusminus 3.7, and 53.6 plusminus 3.9 in the placebo group, respectively (P < 0.0001). NAC treatment prevented the reduction in urinary nitric oxide after angiography. The urinary nitric oxide/creatinine ratio (mumol/mg) was 0.0058 plusminus 0.0004, 0.0057 plusminus 0.0004, and 0.0052 plusminus 0.0004 at baseline, 24, and 96 hours after angiography in NAC group, respectively, and 0.0057 plusminus 0.0007, 0.0031 plusminus 0.0005, and 0.0039 plusminus 0.0005 in the placebo group, respectively (P = 0.013). NAC had no significant effect on urinary F2-isoprostanes.
Conclusion
NAC treatment has renoprotective effect in patients with mild chronic renal failure undergoing coronary angiography that may be mediated in part by an increase in nitric oxide production.



N-acetylcysteine as a preventive measure for acute renal failure: A plea for more accurate detection of renal function in critically ill patients
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17522549

[AD]

I am sure you were aware of this, but, yes, NAC has been shown to be beneficial to kidney function. Questionable if it protects against infection but you can use NAC for kidney protection to if you feel inclined to do so!

The effect of N-acetylcysteine on renal function, nitric oxide, and oxidative stress after angiography
http://www.nature.com/ki/journal/v64.../4494143a.html

The effect of N-acetylcysteine on renal function, nitric oxide, and oxidative stress after angiography.

Treatment with NAC significantly improved the effect of contrast media on creatinine clearance, and maximal beneficial effect was observed 24 hours after angiography. Creatinine clearance (mL/min) was 59.5 plusminus 4.4, 64.7 plusminus 5.8, and 58.7 + 3.9 at baseline, 24, and 96 hours after angiography in the NAC group, respectively, and 65.2 plusminus 3.2, 51.5 plusminus 3.7, and 53.6 plusminus 3.9 in the placebo group, respectively (P < 0.0001). NAC treatment prevented the reduction in urinary nitric oxide after angiography. The urinary nitric oxide/creatinine ratio (mumol/mg) was 0.0058 plusminus 0.0004, 0.0057 plusminus 0.0004, and 0.0052 plusminus 0.0004 at baseline, 24, and 96 hours after angiography in NAC group, respectively, and 0.0057 plusminus 0.0007, 0.0031 plusminus 0.0005, and 0.0039 plusminus 0.0005 in the placebo group, respectively (P = 0.013). NAC had no significant effect on urinary F2-isoprostanes.
Conclusion
NAC treatment has renoprotective effect in patients with mild chronic renal failure undergoing coronary angiography that may be mediated in part by an increase in nitric oxide production.



N-acetylcysteine as a preventive measure for acute renal failure: A plea for more accurate detection of renal function in critically ill patients
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17522549extract not available on this one

i'll be sure to remember this when i next get an angiogram while on a cycle.

btw, got any google links regarding the incidence of acute renal failure resulting from contrast media used in angiograms?

[Sworder]

If you want to compile a thread about renal protective supplements, we can start one if you wish.

[AD]

I would use liv52 or Liverlonger and NAC
Google them..good stuff

Sorry to hear about this misforutune.

sword, did you manage to dig up anything on the other 2?

[Until_It_Sleeps]

If you want to compile a thread about renal protective supplements, we can start one if you wish.

Might be good...

I've had a kidney image before, many years ago, but that was because I got frequent kidney infections when I was pregnant with my first. They said nothing was out of the ordinary. Might be something I could do again...I was also going to get my first-ever blood work; would that tell me anything like this, or would it just show that I had an infection? What exactly is meant by the "values" on a liver and kidney test?

[AD]

Might be good...

I've had a kidney image before, many years ago, but that was because I got frequent kidney infections when I was pregnant with my first. They said nothing was out of the ordinary. Might be something I could do again...I was also going to get my first-ever blood work; would that tell me anything like this, or would it just show that I had an infection? What exactly is meant by the "values" on a liver and kidney test?

Several episodes of previous pyelonephritis may have left some scarring that predispose to future infection. The only thing you can do about it is to always be well hydrated cos decreased urine output may increase the risk of infection. You may also want to see a dr immediately whenever you feel any discomfort and get treatment without delay.

Getting bloodwork now will show you whether the infection has affected your renal function. Getting tested after your course of antibiotics will show you if you have fully recovered with no residual complication.

For liver function, you typically look for increase in ALT and AST. For kidney function, you'll be looking for raised Urea and Creatinine. But these are very late signs of significant impairment.

[JohnnyTribal]

Exactly lol.

I've run 800mg/week of Trenbolone with NO kidney issues at all. Bloodwork to prove it. Many others have run way more than that (a gram or more per week) and were good to go too.

That's sick

[JohnnyTribal]

OP never mentioned sharing needles. Unless i missed it. She said she reused pins. Not the safest or cleanest practice, but i've done it too w/no issues at all. Granted, it was for a short time as i was waiting on my supply, and i would not recommend this, but i never had any issues. And even so, it would start at injection site.

Tren is highly toxic. I love the stuff but also hate it.

Seriously hit a needle exchange they will give you enough to pin clean every time they keep you private and don't ask for any info, other than what you are using it for so they know what to give you, and when you run out just go back and they will give you twice as much as you did before if you save them and bring them back. You can get all the pins you need free for every cycle and still pin clean.

[stpete]

Seriously hit a needle exchange they will give you enough to pin clean every time they keep you private and don't ask for any info, other than what you are using it for so they know what to give you, and when you run out just go back and they will give you twice as much as you did before if you save them and bring them back. You can get all the pins you need free for every cycle and still pin clean.

Thanks. But that's been years ago. I think i have about 300-400 hundred in my closet right now.

[Until_It_Sleeps]

I looked up my needle ex; they only run 4 hrs a day on weekdays and only exchange 1 for 1. Of course, in retrospect, I would have rather made up a bogus reason to ditch work in the middle of the day and wait in line for one needle than deal with all this...but I seriously thought just cleaning it with an alcohol swab would do it.

Weird; I used to be an IV drug user and would share/reuse, and never got any sort of infection. How ironic.

[Sworder]

The re-using the needle could be. I don't think it is though, I know plenty of people who reuse needles. This one guy I know reused the same needle and syringe a whole 10week cycle. He cleaned it out with WATER. Now, this is one of the dumbest things somebody I know has done and the way I found out was that he called me asking if it mattered that some water came into the vial. I asked him, how did you get water in the vial? Then he told me he just had one needle and syringe and that he would just rinse it out and as he was pushing air into the vial some water came into the vial as well. I told him he was an idiot and he could get pins and syringes from me for free.

Anyway, moral of the story is that some people do some pretty stupid things sometimes and get away with it. I would NOT recommend reusing a needle, but the body does have an immune system to protect versus pathogens, to an extent. You are bypassing most of the defense mechanisms by injecting straight into the body so you have to be very careful!

Your immune system was perhaps weak because of extreme dieting and hormone imbalance. Who knows?

[AD]

I looked up my needle ex; they only run 4 hrs a day on weekdays and only exchange 1 for 1. Of course, in retrospect, I would have rather made up a bogus reason to ditch work in the middle of the day and wait in line for one needle than deal with all this...but I seriously thought just cleaning it with an alcohol swab would do it.

Weird; I used to be an IV drug user and would share/reuse, and never got any sort of infection. How ironic.

Somehow, i dont think its the needle. If its dirty, you would get a muscular infection. Not a kidney infection.

[stpete]

I looked up my needle ex; they only run 4 hrs a day on weekdays and only exchange 1 for 1. Of course, in retrospect, I would have rather made up a bogus reason to ditch work in the middle of the day and wait in line for one needle than deal with all this...but I seriously thought just cleaning it with an alcohol swab would do it.

Weird; I used to be an IV drug user and would share/reuse, and never got any sort of infection. How ironic.

Did you really? Well, nice to have you here. Yeah, you got lucky. Any of those little particles from a swab could give you an infection and hurt like a bitch! A friend of mine used his a couple times over. No biggie till he wiped it w/a acohol swab. Then he was at his doctors telling lies.

[Until_It_Sleeps]

Somehow, i dont think its the needle. If its dirty, you would get a muscular infection. Not a kidney infection.

I did get a muscle infection first; was thinking maybe it spread.

I think this contest took a lot out of me. I used more AAS than ever; I was injecting 3x/day for the last few weeks; I used things I'd never used before (like tren). I also took diuretics for two weeks rather than just before the show. I also dieted for 20+ weeks because I started out with 25%+ bodyfat. I'm kind of relieved I won't be doing another one this year.