Is it normal to have...

[Evolution06]

Last night I took my 4th shot of a cycle I started and I have the following issues

-Passing right out from the Prami right before bed then waking up and being awake for a little about 3 hours later (probably tren insomnia?)
-Headaches in the AM
-My jaw hurts from clenching at night and catch myself doing it sometimes during the day
-A little bit of nausea today

Im just trying to figure out what is giving me the sides. Below is my protocol of everything I am doing.

Test Prop - 150mg EOD
Tren Ace - 75mg EOD
Prami 1mg/ml- Started at 25iu the fisrt few days, scaling up slowly to 50iu, then slowly to 100iu. I take this right before I go to bed only
Arimidex .25mg everyday

Letro Protocol to hopefully get rid of some gyno that I have... I just got up to 2.5mg today

Day 1: .25mg Letro + anti-e*
Day 2: .50mg Letro = 20iu
Day 3: 1.0mg Letro =40iu
Day 4: 1.5mg Letro =60iu
Day 5: 2.0mg Letro = 80iu
Day 6: 2.5mg Letro = 100iu

** You will remain at this dose until gyno symptoms subside. Once you believe your gyno is gone it is important to
stay at this dose for another 4-7 days to ensure all traces are gone. I recommend people with a bf% over 15
stay on for a week as it may be harder to judge completely whether the lump is completely gone. Once this
period is over it will be important to taper letro down slowly rather than coming off it completely. Regardless of
which manner you tapered up your dose you will all taper down in the same fashion.

[Lunk1]

I'm no expert on this..never dealt with gyno (knock on wood) but i think you are supposed to drop the AI while doing the letro protocal.

I assume you are running the Prami because of being gyno prone. Have you experienced any prolactin?

The sleep..yup...hello tren lol. I go to bed finally around 12-1..slepp till 5 or so and work at 7 lol. Gotta love it!

[Evolution06]

Yea I think I might have messed that part up of the letro protocol and am still taking the arimidex so I am going to cut it out starting tomorrow until I am done with the results from the letro hopefully.

I dont know if I am gyno prone per say, I have a little bit because I ran cycle and didnt know better on what I had to take to properly protect myself from it and got it. So I am taking the prami just in case, better safe than sorry or worse making it worse... Never experienced prolactin

Last time I took tren it was the enanthate ester and I didnt experience any of this so I am thinking its the prami, armidex, and letro or a combination of some sort causing them...

[Atomini]

The passing out and then waking up several hours later and not being able to go back to sleep is exclusive to the Pramiprexole. So is the nausea. Prami is known for knocking you out cold and then some people find they wake up later on and have issues getting back to sleep.

The headaches and jaw issue, I have no idea what that's about.

[Evolution06]

Damn and I am only at .50mg of prami so far and it will probably only get worse going up to the required 1mg will it not? I sleep like crap anyway so its nothing new and probably just over thought it last night making me even more restless and will just have to deal with it... At least I know the Prami isnt bunk because it takes me a while to fall asleep most times and now I just pass out, havent been like that in years.

Im thinking the headaches might be from still taking the adex and letro at the same time and not just the first day and its just over suppressing the estro, would that be a good assumption?

Oh, and also when i get up in the AM I eat, train and then come home to work and I get really tired, so much so that I had to take a nap the first few days before starting my day. Is that related to the estro being suppressed or the prami residuals?

[Atomini]

I've never used Prami, but as far as I know it is a matter of getting your body used to the dose and adjusting it up slowly. Working your way up to 1mg should be fine, as long as its done slowly.

[Evolution06]

Yea I almost started out at 50iu, I think you were the one that told me to start lower. I went from 25iu for 2 days, then 30 for 2 days, then 40 for a day, the 50 today and maybe the slightly higher jump did it... Thanks as always Atomini

[Bonaparte]

Just drop the prami. You shouldn't need it, especially when running letro.

[Evolution06]

You sure about that? I thought they both do different things??? I think the Prami is the one messing with me, been progressively feeling crappier throughout today and if thats what it is I would love to drop it...

[Bonaparte]

You sure about that? I thought they both do different things??? I think the Prami is the one messing with me, been progressively feeling crappier throughout today and if thats what it is I would love to drop it...

Letro crushes estrogen, which in turn lowers progesterone and prolactin.
Prami just lowers prolactin.

[Evolution06]

Right, ok. If I dont have to take this Prami the its gone because the nausea is no fun. I really hope its whats causing my headache too, then I will be golden

[Bonaparte]

Right, ok. If I dont have to take this Prami the its gone because the nausea is no fun. I really hope its whats causing my headache too, then I will be golden

Its weird, because some don't get any sides from Prami at the correct low dose (myself included), and others get every side effect in the book no matter what. Go with Caber next time if you want to use a dopamine agonist.

[austinite]

Headaches could also be due to lack of sleep, as Bonaparte pointed out the possibility to me when I couldn't narrow it down to drugs. Sometimes the simple things go over our heads.

[RoadToHuge]

The prami sides will go away. If you forget to take it at night however, what ever you do, do not take it in the morning. You will be a zombie all day. Dunno why. I just use .5 of the prami and it works well. I also use stane at a standard dose. I get hit real hard with estrogen and gyno if im not careful so I try not to take any chances. My tren is only 400mg a week so I see very little sides from it other than the tard stregnth. Trensomnia is practically non-existant at my doses. I even stopped the dyphenhydromine I was taking before cycle. Then again it could be the body crushing workouts that tren inspires, just wipes me out at the end of the day..

[songdog]

Like said above try the Caber I like it and I dont get sides from it.

[Evolution06]

Thanks for the input guys, I couldnt get my hands on Caber which is why I opted for the Prami. I stopped the Prami and everything is perfectly normal again so I am just not going to take it since I am running the Letro Gyno Protocol and once it hopefully subsides I will throttle it back and keep it at a maintenance/protection does so I dont have to take the Prami.

[Atomini]

Good to hear!