Shutdown?

[bigsiv]

Only for research purposes not cycle purpose was hoping to find out if there are different levels of shutdown? For example I read 19 nor such as deca can shut you down completely after a 100mg. Where as test takes a bit more and longer . Do different AAS take longer to shut you down and once shut down that's it?

[Sworder]

Yes, certain steroids shut you down faster. The amount of time you are shutdown is more crucial than what compounds you use to cause it.

[bigsiv]

Yeah cheers for that Sworder much appreciated what I'm trying to get at is eg. A long time ago when I didn't have a clue I dine dianabol only cycle don't need to get into I should if done test blah blah but I've read a few threads in this lately and was wondering if every AaS shuts you down completely or slightly, I understand the risks involved when you are shut down, time, pct etc
Lets take dianabol for example IF a person was to do a oral only cycle would they be shut down completely and would that be immediate?
Again this is not something I would ever do research only
Cheers for the reply Peace

[Sworder]

No, it wouldn't be immediate. It takes some time to get shutdown to 0. But there are many factors which will cause the shutdown. Estrogen management is one of the most crucial aspects which is overlooked and 99% of the cyclist don't realize how potent estrogen is to cause shut down. They are oblivious to the fact and come PCT they don't recover as they should. High estrogen will shut you down faster than elevated androgens.

If, for example, you wanted to minimize shutdown and avoid minimal disturbances. I would suggest running dianabol/trenbolone acetate for 2 weeks. There are 2on 4off protocols which are designed to keep shutdown minimal and gains strong. These type of cycles have a high amount of androgens and provide a small window to get your growth going without disturbing LH/FSH to the degree of a regular cycle.

I wouldn't do those kind of cycles. BUT if I was concerned about shutdown that would be the best protocol. If six 2week cycles will give you more gains than one 12 week cycle, I don't know. They very well could but you have to know what you are doing. I like the pump that I get around the two week mark would hate to cut my cycle off at that point. But for your purpose this is the better protocol. As mentioned, keeping estrogen low when PCT comes around is crucial. A lot of guys don't even do PCT during these 2 week cycles as they don't shut you down nearly as much.

[MickeyKnox]

There is no such thing as being shutdown "harder." Shutdown is shutdown. Period.

But, don't confuse being shutdown with being suppressed. Anavar for example will suppress you and not necessarily shut you down. However, like any steroid, dose and length of cycle determines shutdown.

[Sworder]

There is no such thing as being shutdown "harder." Shutdown is shutdown. Period.

But, don't confuse being shutdown with being suppressed. Anavar for example will suppress you and not necessarily shut you down. However, like any steroid, dose and length of cycle determines suppression/shutdown.

Fixed it for you ^

Well, yes and no. Measuring LH/FSH at 0 is as shutdown as you can get. But there are also receptor/cellular atrophy aspects, which, if you include that in being shutdown there will be differences. Being shutdown at 0 LH/FSH for 4 weeks isn't going to be as harsh as being shutdown at 0 for 52 weeks. I hope I didn't make this too complicated now but I think you get my point.

[bigsiv]

Mickeyknox this is the type if answer I was looking for suppression v shutdown. Sworder again as I stated I am not doing a cycle like this I know enough now not to mess about like that but again thanx for the post. The 2 on 4 off is quite interesting.....
So with the great knowledge of you guys do we have a list of AAS which go into catagories of shut down, suppress?

[MickeyKnox]

Like Sworder and I have stated, dosage and length of cycle determine suppression and shutdown. However, there are commonly known "mild" steroids like Var and Tbol that may fit into your category.

[bigsiv]

Cheers mickeyknox all I wanted to hear. Bit of science to back it up would be appreciated though thanx again

[Sworder]

Suppression more than likely leads to shutdown. It's the act in which it is happening.

If you are taking an AAS dose in which you are just suppressed and never get shutdown, you are wasting your time.

Morning only dianabol doses are meant to just suppress. I know you said that you aren't planning on doing a cycle like this. But if you would want to do a cycle which suppresses without the shutdown, do short duration cycles.

[Sworder]

He is speaking the truth, I don't know if this amount of science is enough for when somebody is trying to give you advice or help you. I bet you were searching for a long time before asking for a citation.

Oxandrolone in the treatment of HIV-associated weight loss in men: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16540931

Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
To evaluate the efficacy and safety of oxandrolone in promoting body weight and body cell mass (BCM) gain in HIV-associated weight loss.
METHODS:
Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. Two hundred sixty-two HIV-infected men with documented 10% to 20% weight loss or body mass index < or =20 kg/m were randomized to placebo or to 20, 40, or 80 mg of oxandrolone daily. After 12 weeks, subjects were allowed to receive open-label oxandrolone at a dose of 20 mg for another 12 weeks.
RESULTS:
Body weight increased in all groups, including the group receiving placebo, during the double-blind phase (1.1 +/- 2.7, 1.8 +/- 3.9, 2.8 +/- 3.3, and 2.3 +/- 2.9 kg in placebo and 20-, 40-, and 80-mg oxandrolone groups, respectively; all P < 0.014 vs. baseline). BCM increased from baseline in all groups (0.45 +/- 1.7, 0.91 +/- 2.2, 1.5 +/- 2.5, and 1.8 +/- 1.8 kg in placebo and 20-, 40-, and 80-mg oxandrolone groups, respectively). At 12 weeks, only the gain in weight at the 40-mg dose of oxandrolone and the gain in BCM at the 40- and 80-mg doses of oxandrolone were greater than those in the placebo group, however. Oxandrolone treatment was associated with significant suppression of sex hormone-binding globulin, luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone, and total and free testosterone levels. Treatment was generally well tolerated but accompanied by significant increases in transaminases and low-density lipoprotein as well as decreases in high-density lipoprotein.
CONCLUSION:

Oxandrolone administration is effective in promoting dose-dependent gains in body weight and BCM in HIV-infected men with weight loss.

[bigsiv]

Understand sworder please don't confuse what im getting at or think I'm being too conflicting I'm just wanting an answer to do all TYPES of AAS oral or not shut you down?
Again I appreciate the feed back this isn't an experiment which I would do. I just want to educate my self in the severity if each AAS and its connection with suppression/shut down
Thanx again guys really appreciate your time peace

[Sworder]

Dose and duration. Can't get much simpler and clearer.

[bigsiv]

Dose and duration. Can't get much simpler and clearer.

Fair play good answer. Question answered thanx a lot guys.
Side note I have been looking for answers to this and a lot more questions I have. AAS and the body is one of the most complex issues I have come across. The more knowledge I gain the better I will become! Thanx again sworder and mickeyknox !!!!

[MickeyKnox]

You're welcome bigsiv.