HELP me be a skinny hot ginger

[Duchess437]

HEY!
Lately I've only been confusing myself about postworkout protocol to help me gain LEAN muscle and loose body fat at the same time. In the summer I used 25g dextrose, followed by a whole mean of 6oz chicken, 3/4 c brown rice, and 2 c veg. I got REALLY skinny using that as my post workout method and didnt really gain much muscle. Then long story short I kinda crashed my metabolism, gained 15lb and now am having trouble getting back on track.

I read contradicting evidence on whether or not to spike your insulin pwo if your trying to lose fat. And i've read that you should skip the spike and go straight to a protein shake with all your supplements (glutamine, glycine, greens, whey isolate)

so whats more important? The insulin spike or the glycogen re-load? How does a gal keep from becoming butch or a toothpick and find the nice tight lean middle ground?!!

[Back In Black]

The most important thing is your complete diet based on your stats and goals.

Not many folk here will recommend simple sugars at any time of day whether cutting or bulking. As for shakes we also recommend whole food where possible and not listening so much to the marketing hype that supplement companies spread in order to sell their wares.

If you can list your stats, goals and diet plan (including macro's) and a brief synopsis of your exercise regime we can better advise!

[Duchess437]

Awesome. I'm 5'5 and sitting at 130lbs right now. I'd like to lose about 10lbs. While maintaining my muscle mass. The past summer i was training for figure competitions so I know how to train and lift heavy. My daily diets is as follows

AM:
7:30 am:1/2c oatmeal, 1 scoop whey, 1 tbsp natural pb.

8:30 am: pre workout supplements

9am Intra workout 2 scoops BCAA powder.

10am workout finished.

10:30 am PWO whey isolate, glutamine, glycine, greens.

11:30 am, 6 oz chicken breast, 4oz sweet potato, 2 c veg

1pm 6 oz chicken breast, 4oz sweet potato, 1 c veg

3:30pm, 1 scoop whey, 1 tsp flax oil, 1 c veg

6pm, 4-6 oz chicken, 1-2c veg.

7pm, 1 scoop whey, 1 c veg.

9pm. 1 scoop casien.

on days that I do not train i do not do as many carbs as I do on a training day.

I was doing 25 grams of dextrose or Karbolyn immediately pwo. With dextrose I did not gain muscle but lost fat. with karbolyn I am seeing fat gain and muscle gain.

Currently my training is:

Monday: Chest/ tri
Tuesday: crossfit
Wednesday, Legs, H.I.IT
Thursday: crossfit
Friday, Back, bi, shoulders abs, H.I.I.T
Saturday, Glutes, Abs, shoulders.

[Back In Black]

Do you know your approx bf%?

Definitely a few things to change, we'll move your carbs about. What are your pre workout supps?

Ever do fasted cardio or cardio separate to lifting sessions?

[Duchess437]

supplements:

with breakfast:
l carnitine, 2caps fish oils, vitamins c

preworkout, "craze" "no-explode" and a few others.

I don't have the option to do cardio separate as I can only get to the gym once a day.

I've read about fasted cardio while supplementing with BCAAS. I have the kind of body that like to eat muscle so I'd worry about that happening.

If I had to class myself as a body type I'd say I'm a ecto-meso.

And body fat wise I'd say it's around 18% I have some definition but not a ton

[MuscleInk]

supplements:

with breakfast:
l carnitine, 2caps fish oils, vitamins c

preworkout, "craze" "no-explode" and a few others.

I don't have the option to do cardio separate as I can only get to the gym once a day.

I've read about fasted cardio while supplementing with BCAAS. I have the kind of body that like to eat muscle so I'd worry about that happening.

If I had to class myself as a body type I'd say I'm a ecto-meso.

And body fat wise I'd say it's around 18% I have some definition but not a ton

Your stats sound good to begin with. Props to you and all your dedication this far.

SteM will provide fantastic advice so I'm not going to undermine his expertise. I do want to add a comment about fasted cardio as it is something I truly believe in (now, lol). I'm a hard gainer. Cutting comes more natural to me so I'm always concerned about being catabolic or losing muscle, particularly when doing fasted cardio. In fact I avoided it until my current trainer who's preparing me for a show in 2013 insisted on fasted cardio. If you've consumed the right proportion of macros and cals the day before, your body will use most of the stored glycogen during sleep. In the morning, when there is a glycogen deficit, your body will utilize fat for energy before muscle. Limit your fasted cardio to 30-45 mins light to moderate intensity. I usually walk on the treadmill at a full incline, fast walk/slow jog with 25lb dumbbells in each hand for 30 mins during fasted cardio and then I finish with a 15-20minute an work out.

[Duchess437]

what would pwo look like nutrition wise if one was to do fasted cardio in the am and weights at lunch? what would that plan be then? (you guys rock for all this info

[MuscleInk]

what would pwo look like nutrition wise if one was to do fasted cardio in the am and weights at lunch? what would that plan be then? (you guys rock for all this info

The only thing I take for fasted cardio is a big bottle of BCAAS that I drink instead of water during cardio. I will usually drink a protein shake after my cardio is done.

As for your PWO nutrition, I just stick with my regular diet that I would eat on non cardio days. If you are cutting then your diet is likely geared towards a calorie restriction (relative to bulking) and I suspect your carbs may be lower than normal. For me, a typical PWO meal is 10-12oz of chicken/beef, sweet potatoes, broccoli or carrots.

[SlimmerMe]

Welcome Duchess! And re: fasted cardio. I don't think it would eat muscle and it does help to shed the BF real fast. And it does not have to be super fast. Just a steady fast pace.

Good luck to you!

[brahmabull117]

Important thing is your calories are the right amount and you train hard. Everything else is interchangeable in my view

[Back In Black]

You can ignore sweeping statements like the above. There is more to losing fat and retaining muscle than just having the right calories!

Muscle ink is right in everything he says for fasted cardio. It works better than post lifting so if you can do it then you should. At your lean date I would recommend a low to moderate rate rather than HIIT in the fasted state. We need to be careful as your bf lowers that we don't burn muscle so it's imperative that we get your diet and training right.

I'll work on some figures later but will just say if you do fasted cardio then I would recommend your normal breakfast following it.

Did you keep a diet journal last time you competed?

[baseline_9]

At 18% BF it doesn't matter if u do cardio fasted or not.... It will make no difference to the end result what so ever.... At this stage for you the only factor that needs to be considered when performing cardio is the number of calories burned.... The more the better....

When you get to 12% you may need to make adjustments to your cardio schedule.... However even that is unlikely IMO untill you hit lower body fat percentages (sub 10%)...

Advantages form fasted cardio are not only to do with energy systems, they are hormonal also.... However at 18% BF these 'advantages' will not be present.....

Just do cardio, and burn a lot of additional calories..... Simple

[Back In Black]

Baseline, I beg to differ. OP is a female, 18% on her is like 12% on a guy. I think that makes a big difference here.

[baseline_9]

Baseline, I beg to differ. OP is a female, 18% on her is like 12% on a guy. I think that makes a big difference here.

Thx ste

Sorry, I thought the op was a guy... Lol

I actually opened this thread to see a hot ginger lol... But then skim read the whole thread and missed the bit about being female lol

My bad.... And yeh I agree... Please ignor my post about faster cardio at your BF%... If you were a male it would hold true but in your case fasted cardio may be of benefit...

[Back In Black]

Thx ste

Sorry, I thought the op was a guy... Lol

I actually opened this thread to see a hot ginger lol... But then skim read the whole thread and missed the bit about being female lol

My bad.... And yeh I agree... Please ignor my post about faster cardio at your BF%... If you were a male it would hold true but in your case fasted cardio may be of benefit...

No worries mate, thought we were gonna disagree for once them!!!

OP, the main reason why people lose lose too much muscle when cutting is too few calories and/or poor macro split. Your 18% is already really lean for a female (if correct) and dropping 10lbs of fat would be dropping you really, really low which can result in various medial issues if held there for any length of time.

Firstly a note on your training - you train abs and shoulders 2 days in a row, any reason? And HIIT cardio after legs? You're braver than me!

As far as diet goes I think you may be similar in terms of bodytype, to me. For that reason I would go with a slightly higher carb intake than some people cut with. We'll look at a split of 50/30/20 - p/c/f and we can always adjust from there as we can adjust calories where appropriate. I also think we should look at approx 1500 cals to start with and split them up along these guidelines:-

Pre Workout - 55g carbs, 32g pro, 5g fat

Post workout - 55g carbs, 32g pro, minimal fat

For your 4 other meals - 32g pro and 6-7g fat. These should include plenty of fibrous and cruciferous veggies.

If you prefer to split your carb allowance over 3 meals then that's ok.

Supplemental fat sources can come from natty peanut butter, almonds, walnuts, seeds and omega 3 fish oils are a better choice than flax.

Your carb sources are good in sweet potato and oats.

Can you incorporate some different protein sources, fish, lean beef maybe?

[gbrice75]

Thx ste

Sorry, I thought the op was a guy... Lol

I actually opened this thread to see a hot ginger lol... But then skim read the whole thread and missed the bit about being female lol

My bad.... And yeh I agree... Please ignor my post about faster cardio at your BF%... If you were a male it would hold true but in your case fasted cardio may be of benefit...

Tisk tisk...

[Duchess437]

the shoulders are done on more of a split as their one of my favorites to train (legs and shoulders ftw LOL) so one day I'll do front, and over head the next i'll do lateral and rear. I find i can really focus more one the different muscle heads that way. what would you suggest in place of the hi.i.it after legs? is that not the right arrangement?

[Back In Black]

If you feel the need to train shoulders twice in a week I'd give them 3-4 days inbetween, else you are likely to see them worsen rather than improve.

HIIT after legs is fine if you have the energy, after my leg workout I get DOMS for days, can't imagine what HIIT on the same session would do to me!

[LiL P]

HIIT after legs is fine if you have the energy, after my leg workout I get DOMS for days, can't imagine what HIIT on the same session would do to me!

Holy shit HIIT after LEGS! I dont even trust myself driving home from the gym after leg days i basically crawl outa the gym and into someones car.. i suffer from serious DOMS on legs aswell i have to really concentrate when walking around to make sure it dont look like i shit myself

[baseline_9]

If u wanna do delts twice a week add side and front laterals to your chest session and a couple of rear delt movements to your back session....

I'd also add your glutes session to your leg session since I think your training a bit much TBH

Mon - chest, front and side delts, tri
Tue - crossfit
Wed - legs, glutes
Thu - crossfit
Fri- back, rear delts, bi


If you want to add lome low intensity cardio I'd probably throw it in on sat and sun... If u wanted to add more I would add it the morning after your crossfit sessions.... If you were to do this I would carb fast after the crossfit session and then for 6-8 hours after the morning fasted cardio.... To create a good depletion phase...

[Duchess437]

Lately my training looks like this:

Monday: Legs
Step ups for warm ups, 20 per side 5 sets.
leg extension drop set
leg curl drop set

superset:
Front squats, back squats, squats with 12lb med ball throws. 21 reps of each first round, 15 on the second round and 9 on the last round

60lb weighted step ups 4x12
dead lifts 4x15 100lbs
10 sets of sprints

Tuesday:
AM H.I.I.T
Noon: Crossfit.

Wednessday: chest, tris, abs.
rowing/dips for warm up
close/wide grip superset flat bench press 50lbs 4X15
seated overhead tricep extensions 30lbs 3 sets till failure
incline chest press 30lbs 4X12 with push ups between sets
flat chest press 30lbs 4X12 with abs durring rests
tricep extensions 15lbs 4X12
Decline leg raises 4x20

Thursday:
Noon crossfit

Friday:back/bi
tri set of assisted pull ups for warm up
bent over barbell rows 4X15 80lbs
rotation curls 15lbs 3x15
single arm rows, 30 lbs 4x10 per side
hammer curls 15lbs 4x10
hanging leg raises 4x20
seated lateral raise12lbs 3x12
Seated pulldowns 80lbs 4x10
low rows 70lbs 4x10

Saturday:Glutes/legs/shoulders
hack squats 170lbs 4x10-12, with medicine ball squats durring active rest
single leg sideways leg press 100lbs 4x15per side with body weight curtsy lunges during active rest
weighted booty bridges with 80lb bar across the hips 4x12 with abs durring active rests
shoulder press 25lbs 3x12
front cable raises 12lbs 3x10
military press front/back 50lbs 4x12
sprints

sunday rest

AM:
7:30 am:1/2c oatmeal, 1 scoop whey, 1 tbsp natural pb.

8:30 am: pre workout supplements

9am Intra workout 2 scoops BCAA powder.

10am workout finished.

10:30 am PWO whey isolate, glutamine, glycine, greens.

11:30 am, 6 oz chicken breast, 4oz sweet potato, 2 c veg

1pm 6 oz chicken breast, 4oz sweet potato, 1 c veg

3:30pm, 1 scoop whey, 1 tsp flax oil, 1 c veg

6pm, 4-6 oz chicken, 1-2c veg.

7pm, 1 scoop whey, 1 c veg.

9pm. 1 scoop casien.

on days that I do not train i do not do as many carbs as I do on a training day.

I was doing 25 grams of dextrose or Karbolyn immediately pwo. With dextrose I did not gain muscle but lost fat. with karbolyn I am seeing fat gain and muscle gain.

input?

[SlimmerMe]

You are in great hands here Duchess! And good for you for this dedication!!!

[Back In Black]

Re: diet - did you read what I wrote? Write up a new plan based on that info and it will be critiqued.

[Duchess437]

ok. so here is what I've got based on your input.

7:15 am 1/2 c oats, 1 scp whey, 1 tbsp ground flax, (p34/c31/f7)

8:00 am, 30 mins before training 1 apple (c25)

8:45 am training scoops bcaas while training

10-10:15 done training

should i:
A) immediately consume 25 grams of dextrose
or
B) wait 30mins then have protein shake, 1 scp whey isolate, greens, glycine, glutamine

then 30mins later have a meal?

10:45-11am(ish)
4 oz sweet potato, 3.5oz chicken breast, 1 cup veggies (p37/c36/f2)

1pm 3.5ounce chicken/tuna/turkey, 1c veggies, 2 caps fish oils (p36/c11/f4)

4pm 3.5ounce chicken/tuna/turkey, 1c veggies, 1tsp flax oil or 1 tsp PB, 1 rice cake (p37/c20/f10)

7pm 1.5 scoop whey or 4.5 ounce chicken/tuna/turkey, 1 cup veggies (p36/c11/f3)

8:30-9pm 1scoop casien (p25/c2/f1)

[Back In Black]

OK, sorry, perhaps I wasn't particularly clear.

NO dextrose. EVER.

Whey shouldn't be used as a meal. It is too fast acting. If you do take any whey then breakfast and post workout are acceptable.

An apple is ok but I would personally prefer those carbs as a more complex form, especially when cutting and hunger can be an issue.

6 meals aren't essential. I do 5 and put all my macro's in those 5 meals, it helps with hunger when cutting.

Breakfast is ok but if you can split your protein from whey and a slower digesting source eg eggs/cottage cheese. Add your apple to this meal or the extra carbs from oats.

When you finish training you can either eat a whole meal or take a shake. I do both from time to time. If i have a shake its whey isolate with ground oats. If I eat a meal its probably oats, chicken and green veg. Timing of this meal? It's anything from 30-60 mins after I finish training. If I have whey and oats I normally eat again about an hour later.

I'd miss your 7pm meal unless you are going to eat again 9 30. I would just go with your 8 30 timing and have 7pm meat and veggies here. Lean steak is a great choice here.

You may need to rework and split your protein now into 5 meals (approx 37g per meal).

[Duchess437]

7:15 am 1/2 c oats, 1 scp whey, 1 tsp ground flax, (p34/c31/f7)

8:00 am, 30 mins 1 rice cake, 1 tbsp nat pb (c10/f8)

8:45 am training scoops bcaas while training

10-10:15 done training

10:30wait 30mins then have protein shake, 1 scp whey isolate, greens, glycine, glutamine

11am 4 oz sweet potato, 3.5oz chicken breast, 1 cup veggies (p41/c36/f2)

1pm 4 ounce chicken/tuna/turkey, 1c veggies, 2 caps fish oils (p40/c11/f4)

4pm 4ounce chicken/tuna/turkey, 1c veggies, 1tsp flax oil or 1 tsp PB, 1 rice cake (p40/c20/f10)

6:30pm 4 ounce chicken/tuna/turkey, 1 cup veggies (p40/c11/f3)

9pm 1scoop casien (p25/c2/f1)


OVER ALL:P245/c121/f35

I personally can't go over 2 hours of not eating (some one would die LOL) how does this look? not to much of any macro?

[Back In Black]

I'm sorry, I really don't know what I'm saying wrong.

There is no need to split your breakfast into 2 meals.

Post workout you need carbs.

You won't starve or fade away if you don't eat every 2 hours despite the supplement companies telling you that you will shrink and your leg will fall off if you don't take their billion dollar industry supplement 3 times per day.

And no, your macro's don't match what I stated!

I can't write your diet for you and I'm not not I can be much more clear?

[Duchess437]

No, your totally right I sent that off without properly looking at it. SRY am somewhat sleep deprived at the moment what with having sick children. I'll try again. thanks so much for all the help though

[GirlyGymRat]

and i want to be a skinny hot ginger too! You got great input from SteM....and he always is spot on!!! I love your training plan! I may borrow it!!!

[Duchess437]

7:30 am 2/3 c oats, 1 scp whey, 1 tsp ground flax, 1 tsp flax oil (p38/c40/f16)

8:45am while training scoops bcaas while training

10:30 1.5 scp whey isolate, greens, glycine, glutamine (p36/c2/f0)

11am 4oz sweet potato, 3.5oz chicken breast, 1 cup veggies (p36/c36/f2)

1:30pm 4 oz sweet potato, 3.5oz chicken breast, 1cup veggies2 caps fish oils (p36/c36/f4)

4pm 3.5ounce chicken/tuna/turkey, 1c veggies, 1tsp flax oil or 1 tsp PB (p36/c11/f8)

6:30pm 3.5 ounce chicken/tuna/turkey, 1 cup veggies 2 caps fish oil (p36/c11/f4)

8:30pm 1scoop casien (p25/c2/f1)

P243 C140 F35

did i get it right? do i get a gold star yet?

[Back In Black]

Just ditch the PWO shake then you'll automatically have carbs in your post workout meal. That should drop your protein down to the right amount too. Other than that you are gtg.

You will just need to moitor your progress and work from there!

[Duchess437]

Has anyone here ever experimented with intermittent fasting?

[RaginCajun]

Has anyone here ever experimented with intermittent fasting?

Yes, there are tons of threads here about it.

I did it and still do it from time to time.

You can look at lean gains dot com , there are tons of info there for your liking.