My annual AI attempt

[The Titan99]

Hey guy's. This is directed mainly at Lunk, Baseline, Sworder, Vegas, Knox, Marcus, Swifto to name just a few that have directly or indirectly tried or suggested that I enter the "New World Order" of running an AI with all cycles. About once a year I try to use an AI and invariably it gives me the worst sexual sides, aching joints and massive lethargy to name just a few of the sides I get. Now I have run as much as 2 grams of Test along with various other compounds at some pretty high doses and never have ANY sides at all aside from some moderately high BP which I can control with amlopine and more recently cialis and some water retention, just lately pretty heavy water retention. No gyno, no acne, no lethargy, and most importantly no sexual sides. In fact it's just the opposite. I've been a single (not REALLY single if you know what I mean) man living in Thailand for the last 10 years and having ED here is like having your jaw wired shut at the all-you-can-eat lobster buffet. Whenever I start an AI I get some ED problems, drop the AI immediately, then all goes back to normal. Lately I've managed to hook up with an actual girlfriend. I've told her we might have to wait a week or so to get this E2 thing worked out and she's cool with it for long term health's sake. I also recently got bloodwork done and as you'll see, it's time to try the AI again. Here's the tale of the tape...
This was done about 18 days after the end of a heavy 12 week cycle Test/Tren (Test E 900 mg Tren E 600 mg Tren A 400 mg) during the 18 days was cruising on 600 mg Test E.

Complete blood count - Everything was perfect RBCwidth a little high. Expected.

T3 - 79 L (80-200) Low
T4 - 3.83 L (5.1-14.1) Low

Here's the big one

E2 - 286.3 pg/ml Male 7.63-42.6 Female Follicullar 12.5-166 Ovulation 85.5-498 Luteal 43.8-211 Pregnant 215-4300 WOW!!!

Cholesterol 310 (0-240) High
LDL 248 (0-130) High
AST/SGOT 65 (17-59) High
ALT/SGPT 78 (21-72) High
Calcium 10.5 (8.4-10.2)

Progesterone 4.1 (.2-1.4) High High for female

Prolactin 35.6 (4.1-18.4) High High for female also

Everything else I tested was good.

Anyway, shocking, huh?!

All I had was some Aromasin I keep on hand in case of emergency so Friday I started taking 12.5 eod. Saturday had some ed difficulty (this was the third time having sex that day so WTF - day off you know...). After that I started pissing like mad, ankles went from swollen like a pregnant woman to skinny as a Ethiopian distance runner. BP dropped to the point that I dropped the BP meds and the cialis, which will be the true test of the ed thing I guess. Maybe this is the way forward after all...I'm on cycle again, 2 grams Test/900 mg NPP/900 mg Masteron P/Proviron 100 mg ed.

I wanted to try arimedex but won't have any for a while. Any help or suggestions here would be appreciated. I plan to get E2/Progesterone/Prolactin tested again along with myostatin, which they forgot to test in the original blood work. How long would you think I should wait?

[Lunk1]

Hahaha...this made my week Titan lol. If you have the Aromasin by all means use that. I prefer it on heavy cycles and cycles with 19nors. It easy on lipid profile and suicide inhibotor.

[The Titan99]

Yea,I figured everyone would enjoy this one!!! Lol!! I rarely do a cycle without a 19 nor. Being an old guy I have at least a little Deca in everything I do.. How long do you think before a re test on the E2 is in order?

[ddp2727]

Yea,I figured everyone would enjoy this one!!! Lol!! I rarely do a cycle without a 19 nor. Being an old guy I have at least a little Deca in everything I do.. How long do you think before a re test on the E2 is in order?

NPP is just the short ester deca, so you still got a "little" deca in there.

[The Titan99]

NPP is just the short ester deca, so you still got a "little" deca in there.

What did I say to make you think that I didn't know that? I'm not in the habit of injecting compounds I know nothing about. Thanks anyway...

[lovbyts]

I'm not sure about adex but I know with liquid stane I felt it kick in within 24 hrs or less. When I ran the same as you my E2 was the same as yours, 295. I felt fine and had no other sides excpet my test was only 736 where it should have been 3x that. Next time run some mast with it, it works as a mild AI also. If you arent already run micronized DHEA and Pregnenolone to help keep things in order.

I'm about to go in and get my E2 tested again to see where it's at this time using the liquid stane.

BTW every time I saw 18 in your post I imediatly though about the GF's age.

[ddp2727]

I was mainly doing a play on little. Idk if I'll ever reach 900mg of a 19 nor that's all man. And if you were kidding or not with saying a little deca I just thought it was funny. Didn't mean any disrespect.

[Lunk1]

If you using the Aromasin I would give it a few weeks. It's usually a solid week to get level the you may want to spend a cpl weeks getting a feel for your dose,

[MickeyKnox]

I recall your previous posts, and if my memory serves me correctly you are extremely sensitive to AI's. And as you indicated, your E2 is not effected overtly by AAS. Although this is unusual, its' not uncommon.

Doing bloods only 18 days after a heavy cycle will only provide skewed results, imho. I believe that 4wks is the minimum to wait after cycle, and then another 4 wks after that to get an accurate snapshot of your hormones values.

You'll have to wait until youre off cycle again to get a full set of bloods and post it up in the HRT forums for the hormone pros to take a peek at Titan. Im sure GD, Kel, Vette and the others will be able to provide some accurate detailed advice and help unravel this riddle of yours.

However, while youre on cycle i would try to keep an eye on your E2 through blood work. But it doesn't appear that Aromasin @ 12.5 EOD is the ticket for you, as you've already discovered. Perhaps Adex is a better choice?

Sub'd for answers..

[Lunk1]

Maybe I read this whole thing wrong. Looking at the last paragraoh I assumed he was saying it appears the Aro. is doing it's job by losing water and dropping BP and that he wanted to do bloods to see if it had brought his E2 levels down since he started using it. I looked at it as his BW was pre AI and showed the elevated E2 so know he wants to check it on the AI....am I losing it????

[Far from massive]

Even though I wasn't invited LOL I would interject that you might wanna try some Caber etc. or if you dont have anything else available B-6 for the prolactin. It would be likely that your erectile sides when taking an AI might be compounded due to the effect of the high prolactin.

Also how are your neck and back feeling, I also finished a big ass run with Tren/Mast and the first 3 weeks off I felt like I was 90 every time I would shift my head my neck would crack.

[Metalject]

I'm a little confused by this thread. What's your overall point Titan?

[Lunk1]

I'm a little confused by this thread. What's your overall point Titan?

I thought he was saying it appears the AI is working based on statements in his last paragraph and he wanted to know how long he should wait to get BW to see what the AI may have lowered is E2 levels to since he started using it....again, I'm easily confused

[Far from massive]

I'm a little confused by this thread. What's your overall point Titan?

I thought his concern was not that the AI was not working...rather that it was causing ED problems. As he said having ED problems in Thailand is like having a bad appetite at a resturant, well that may not be how he said it but the idea is the same.

[The Titan99]

I'm not sure about adex but I know with liquid stane I felt it kick in within 24 hrs or less. When I ran the same as you my E2 was the same as yours, 295. I felt fine and had no other sides excpet my test was only 736 where it should have been 3x that. Next time run some mast with it, it works as a mild AI also. If you arent already run micronized DHEA and Pregnenolone to help keep things in order.

I'm about to go in and get my E2 tested again to see where it's at this time using the liquid stane.

BTW every time I saw 18 in your post I imediatly though about the GF's age.

I usually run Masteron too for the anti E properties as well as being anabolic.

I was mainly doing a play on little. Idk if I'll ever reach 900mg of a 19 nor that's all man. And if you were kidding or not with saying a little deca I just thought it was funny. Didn't mean any disrespect.

No problem Dude.

I recall your previous posts, and if my memory serves me correctly you are extremely sensitive to AI's. And as you indicated, your E2 is not effected overtly by AAS. Although this is unusual, its' not uncommon.

Doing bloods only 18 days after a heavy cycle will only provide skewed results, imho. I believe that 4wks is the minimum to wait after cycle, and then another 4 wks after that to get an accurate snapshot of your hormones values.

You'll have to wait until youre off cycle again to get a full set of bloods and post it up in the HRT forums for the hormone pros to take a peek at Titan. Im sure GD, Kel, Vette and the others will be able to provide some accurate detailed advice and help unravel this riddle of yours.

However, while youre on cycle i would try to keep an eye on your E2 through blood work. But it doesn't appear that Aromasin @ 12.5 EOD is the ticket for you, as you've already discovered. Perhaps Adex is a better choice?

Sub'd for answers..

Well, for one thing, I never really go off, so there's that. What I'm saying is the Stane IS working. Almost immediately!! My biggest problems in the past were ED and joint pain as well as sluggishness, but I never really gave it enough time to get leveled out due to the sexual insecurity that goes along with having sex with a new girl constantly. Now with the girlfriend that's changed. Sorry for the confusion. I'd still like to try adex though, but if this keeps working I'll probably just dance with the date that brought me if you know what I mean.

Even though I wasn't invited LOL I would interject that you might wanna try some Caber etc. or if you dont have anything else available B-6 for the prolactin. It would be likely that your erectile sides when taking an AI might be compounded due to the effect of the high prolactin.

Also how are your neck and back feeling, I also finished a big ass run with Tren/Mast and the first 3 weeks off I felt like I was 90 every time I would shift my head my neck would crack.

You were definitely invited. Just not enough time to list you all, which is a pretty good indicator I've been seriously behind the times. Times Roman's name now also springs to mind. I take injectable B1, B6, B12 now and I also have an easier time finding authentic Cajun seafood gumbo in Thailand than Caber!! Lol!! Got some Prami but I just hate it!!
And yes!! Now that you mention it I have had that feeling after Tren/Mast cycles. That's why I usually have 200-300 mg of Nandrolone of some kind in there too. Plus as stated above, I never really come off completely...

I'm a little confused by this thread. What's your overall point Titan?

I guess it was sort of an announcement of my coming over to the white side of the force. Also a preemptive thread for what I felt would be another AI fiasco for me and getting some help as the problems arised. Really didn't have any idea it would go so well if I just stuck with it. Also wanted to know when you all thought it would be a good idea to re check the E2.

I thought his concern was not that the AI was not working...rather that it was causing ED problems. As he said having ED problems in Thailand is like having a bad appetite at a resturant, well that may not be how he said it but the idea is the same.

EXACTLY!! And looking for a little moral support when the inevitable problems reared their ugly head...

Sorry guy's night here is day there. That's why I haven't responded.

[Metalject]

OK, I understand now. Thanks for clearing that up.

[The Titan99]

I thought he was saying it appears the AI is working based on statements in his last paragraph and he wanted to know how long he should wait to get BW to see what the AI may have lowered is E2 levels to since he started using it....again, I'm easily confused

Your right as always Lunk! That's exactly what I was saying. You should be a lobbyist for Phizer. We'd all have things a lot easier if you were.

[Lunk1]

Your right as always Lunk! That's exactly what I was saying. You should be a lobbyist for Phizer. We'd all have things a lot easier if you were.

I reeally think that if you tried them both you would like the Masin better in the long run. I just think it's a better option for cycles your size. If you were running all short esters then the Adex would be better as it starts to work right away but again the Masin just tends to be easier on the lipid panels. I still say run it a month and test. I think Kel could tell you for sure on test times for E2 specifically. I am glad it's working for ya...

[MickeyKnox]

I usually run Masteron too for the anti E properties as well as being anabolic.

Well, for one thing, I never really go off, so there's that. What I'm saying is the Stane IS working. Almost immediately!! My biggest problems in the past were ED and joint pain as well as sluggishness, but I never really gave it enough time to get leveled out due to the sexual insecurity that goes along with having sex with a new girl constantly. Now with the girlfriend that's changed. Sorry for the confusion. I'd still like to try adex though, but if this keeps working I'll probably just dance with the date that brought me if you know what I mean.

You were definitely invited. Just not enough time to list you all, which is a pretty good indicator I've been seriously behind the times. Times Roman's name now also springs to mind. I take injectable B1, B6, B12 now and I also have an easier time finding authentic Cajun seafood gumbo in Thailand than Caber!! Lol!! Got some Prami but I just hate it!!
And yes!! Now that you mention it I have had that feeling after Tren/Mast cycles. That's why I usually have 200-300 mg of Nandrolone of some kind in there too. Plus as stated above, I never really come off completely...

I guess it was sort of an announcement of my coming over to the white side of the force. Also a preemptive thread for what I felt would be another AI fiasco for me and getting some help as the problems arised. Really didn't have any idea it would go so well if I just stuck with it. Also wanted to know when you all thought it would be a good idea to re check the E2.

EXACTLY!! And looking for a little moral support when the inevitable problems reared their ugly head...

Sorry guy's night here is day there. That's why I haven't responded.

Ahhh i see, said the blind man who picked up the hammer and saw.

The only advice i have left based on your 600mg/wk cruise is for you to wait at least 4wks total, from your last shot on your heavy cycle that you recently completed, and draw bloods to give you a baseline @ the 600/wk - IF this is your normal cruise protocol.

This will at least establish your E2 values at your normal cruise. Then, run a small dose protocol of an AI for 3-4wks (or sooner depending on AI) and draw bloods again. In the meantime ask your girl to be understanding and support you while you get things squared away.

Other than that Titan, i really have no other suggestions. But i do hope you get this figured out. Its no picnic having high (or low) estrogen levels.

p.s. Lunk secretly works for Johnson and Johnson.

[The Titan99]

Ahhh i see, said the blind man who picked up the hammer and saw.

The only advice i have left based on your 600mg/wk cruise is for you to wait at least 4wks total, from your last shot on your heavy cycle that you recently completed, and draw bloods to give you a baseline @ the 600/wk - IF this is your normal cruise protocol.

This will at least establish your E2 values at your normal cruise. Then, run a small dose protocol of an AI for 3-4wks (or sooner depending on AI) and draw bloods again. In the meantime ask your girl to be understanding and support you while you get things squared away.

Other than that Titan, i really have no other suggestions. But i do hope you get this figured out. Its no picnic having high (or low) estrogen levels.

p.s. Lunk secretly works for Johnson and Johnson.

Yea, I think this is what I'm going to do. Since I'm back on a big cycle I think I'll get tested after 4 weeks of the Aromasin at 12.5 eod (even if it's not enough, it must be so much better than nothing which is the only thing I know.) and see where I'm at, adjust, then test again at week 8. Then after the cycle cruise at 600 mg Test for 4-6 weeks and test again. I got the Doc doing these tests for me for what amounts to 20 bucks so I'll definitely take advantage of the thing.

Johnson & Johnson must produce Aromasin then...

[human project]

Yea,I figured everyone would enjoy this one!!! Lol!! I rarely do a cycle without a 19 nor. Being an old guy I have at least a little Deca in everything I do.. How long do you think before a re test on the E2 is in order?

Same here... My joints kill me if I'm not on at least a little deca. Plus I notice great results with low doses around 200-400mg per week. Even when on high tren cycles I still take a couple hundred mg of deca.

[human project]

NPP is just the short ester deca, so you still got a "little" deca in there.

Do you find npp to be as strong as deca?

[human project]

Hey guy's. This is directed mainly at Lunk, Baseline, Sworder, Vegas, Knox, Marcus, Swifto to name just a few that have directly or indirectly tried or suggested that I enter the "New World Order" of running an AI with all cycles. About once a year I try to use an AI and invariably it gives me the worst sexual sides, aching joints and massive lethargy to name just a few of the sides I get. Now I have run as much as 2 grams of Test along with various other compounds at some pretty high doses and never have ANY sides at all aside from some moderately high BP which I can control with amlopine and more recently cialis and some water retention, just lately pretty heavy water retention. No gyno, no acne, no lethargy, and most importantly no sexual sides. In fact it's just the opposite. I've been a single (not REALLY single if you know what I mean) man living in Thailand for the last 10 years and having ED here is like having your jaw wired shut at the all-you-can-eat lobster buffet. Whenever I start an AI I get some ED problems, drop the AI immediately, then all goes back to normal. Lately I've managed to hook up with an actual girlfriend. I've told her we might have to wait a week or so to get this E2 thing worked out and she's cool with it for long term health's sake. I also recently got bloodwork done and as you'll see, it's time to try the AI again. Here's the tale of the tape...
This was done about 18 days after the end of a heavy 12 week cycle Test/Tren (Test E 900 mg Tren E 600 mg Tren A 400 mg) during the 18 days was cruising on 600 mg Test E.

Complete blood count - Everything was perfect RBCwidth a little high. Expected.

T3 - 79 L (80-200) Low
T4 - 3.83 L (5.1-14.1) Low

Here's the big one

E2 - 286.3 pg/ml Male 7.63-42.6 Female Follicullar 12.5-166 Ovulation 85.5-498 Luteal 43.8-211 Pregnant 215-4300 WOW!!!

Cholesterol 310 (0-240) High
LDL 248 (0-130) High
AST/SGOT 65 (17-59) High
ALT/SGPT 78 (21-72) High
Calcium 10.5 (8.4-10.2)

Progesterone 4.1 (.2-1.4) High High for female

Prolactin 35.6 (4.1-18.4) High High for female also

Everything else I tested was good.

Anyway, shocking, huh?!

All I had was some Aromasin I keep on hand in case of emergency so Friday I started taking 12.5 eod. Saturday had some ed difficulty (this was the third time having sex that day so WTF - day off you know...). After that I started pissing like mad, ankles went from swollen like a pregnant woman to skinny as a Ethiopian distance runner. BP dropped to the point that I dropped the BP meds and the cialis, which will be the true test of the ed thing I guess. Maybe this is the way forward after all...I'm on cycle again, 2 grams Test/900 mg NPP/900 mg Masteron P/Proviron 100 mg ed.

I wanted to try arimedex but won't have any for a while. Any help or suggestions here would be appreciated. I plan to get E2/Progesterone/Prolactin tested again along with myostatin, which they forgot to test in the original blood work. How long would you think I should wait?

I know you've told me before that t3 makes you feel like shit but you may want to give t4 a try. High tren kills my t3 levels also. I get away with taking 1/2 to 1//3 the normal doses of ai's especially if I take dosenix, caber, primidexole or any other prolactin blocker. These really help my sex drive and performance. You may also add 10-20mg of nolva during cycle. I never have any issues with nolva

[human project]

I'm not sure about adex but I know with liquid stane I felt it kick in within 24 hrs or less. When I ran the same as you my E2 was the same as yours, 295. I felt fine and had no other sides excpet my test was only 736 where it should have been 3x that. Next time run some mast with it, it works as a mild AI also. If you arent already run micronized DHEA and Pregnenolone to help keep things in order.

I'm about to go in and get my E2 tested again to see where it's at this time using the liquid stane.

BTW every time I saw 18 in your post I imediatly though about the GF's age.

Ya I forgot to mention masterone. Taking 400-600mg of mast and 50mg of provirone a day does wonders for balancing my estrogen to free test ratios

[The Titan99]

Do you find npp to be as strong as deca?

Yea, I do. Especially at 900 mg!!

I know you've told me before that t3 makes you feel like shit but you may want to give t4 a try. High tren kills my t3 levels also. I get away with taking 1/2 to 1//3 the normal doses of ai's especially if I take dosenix, caber, primidexole or any other prolactin blocker. These really help my sex drive and performance. You may also add 10-20mg of nolva during cycle. I never have any issues with nolva

I had some problems with nolva before, switched to Proviron and never a problem since. Now I run 100 mg Proviron always.

Ya I forgot to mention masterone. Taking 400-600mg of mast and 50mg of provirone a day does wonders for balancing my estrogen to free test ratios

Always run Masteron. Currently Running 900 mg Test E/1050 mg Test P/900 mg NPP/900 mg Masteron P/100 mg Proviron/10 i.u.'s HGH and 12.5 Stane eod!!!