Carb Cycling Questions

[Armdaddy]

I am about 150 lbs 16% bf. My goal is to lose body fat % and simultaneously get stronger. I have been recommended to try "carb cycling" yet I know but the bare basics of this diet. I have done some research on my own but I would like to ask some specific questions and get some input from my fellow meatheads here

Considering my split looks like this..

Mon - workout
Tues - off
Wed- workout
Thurs - off
Fri - workout
Sat - off
Sun - off

When should my heavy, low, and NO carb days be? How high should they be? Is brown superior to white? Does it matter when I take them throughout my day?

Also, is this a healthy way to eat for a long period of time or is this something people cycle on and off from?

If someone could direct me to a good and detailed post about this way of eating I would really appreciate it too. Thanks guys

[OdinsOtherSon]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...carb%20cycling

^^ Check that thread out. The good read starts at post #7 concerned carb cycling.

[auswest]

I enjoy carb cycling and it works, your high days should be tied in with you lifting days and lows on your off days, I think I was doing low/low/low/high. Don't expect to gain strength when losing body fat.

Complex carbs are much better fit your simple carbs in around your workouts if you can

[gbrice75]

I am about 150 lbs 16% bf. My goal is to lose body fat % and simultaneously get stronger. I have been recommended to try "carb cycling" yet I know but the bare basics of this diet. I have done some research on my own but I would like to ask some specific questions and get some input from my fellow meatheads here

Everybody wants to add muscle and lost bodyfat, lol. Even with carb cycling, you'll need to choose a primary goal, and your total caloric intake will dictate said goal. How tall are you? I'd have to reserve advice re: carb cycling until I know what you really want to get out of it for the short term (i.e. add mass or lose bodyfat, primarily).

Considering my split looks like this..

Mon - workout
Tues - off
Wed- workout
Thurs - off
Fri - workout
Sat - off
Sun - off

Just based on your workout day split, I would imagine you're gearing towards adding mass moreso than losing bodyfat, is that right?

When should my heavy, low, and NO carb days be?

Again, depending on the goal, here's what I do:

When adding mass is my primary goal, and with your schedule in mind:

Monday - workout - high
Tuesday - off (cardio) low
Wednesday - workout - high
Thursday - off (cardio) - low
Friday - workout - high
Saturday - off (cardio) - low
Sunday - off (rest day) - NO starchy carbs, fibrous veggies only

When adding bodyfat is the primary goal, I wouldn't go with your schedule at all tbh. Here's what my last fat loss carb cycle looked like:

Monday - workout - moderate
Tuesday - workout - moderate
Wednesday - workout - moderate
Thursday - workout - no starchy carbs (fibrous veggies only)
Friday - workout - no starchy carbs (fibrous veggies only)
Saturday - cardio/conditioning - no starchy carbs (fibrous veggies only)
Sunday - off (complete rest) - HIGH

The first example (adding mass) seems much more obvious - high carbs on workout days, low on non workout days, etc. The second example might surprise you a bit, particularly having a high carb day on an off day. Seems counter-intuitive, right? Here's how it works:

Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday - we're workout out our heaviest stuff (legs, back, etc) and keeping glycogen stores topped off with moderate carb intake, thereby fueling the workouts. Thursday and Friday are still training days but lighter stuff (maybe arms, shoulders, abs, etc) - we're now working on no carbs, thereby depleting glycogen stores in the muscles and liver. Continued on saturday with cardio. At this point, if you're training hard and truly avoiding starchy carbs for 3 consecutive days, glycogen stores should be pretty well depleted and you're primarily burning bodyfat. Sunday is a complete rest day - rest = refuel, hence, high carbs. We're restoring glycogen to max in order to start the cycle over again on Monday. VERY effective.

How high should they be?

All depends on your total calories, and again, your goal. Higher for adding mass obviously. For fat loss, you'd only have a single 'high' day, and even that wouldn't be considered 'high' by most people's standards.

Is brown superior to white?

Nutritionally speaking, yes. White is nothing more than 'stripped down' brown. But I wouldn't make much of an issue over this. So long as you're not eating the rice by itself (and you shouldn't be), it won't make much of a difference.

Does it matter when I take them throughout my day?

IMO, YES.

Also, is this a healthy way to eat for a long period of time or is this something people cycle on and off from?

I think it's an excellent way to eat. If you can handle it long term from a mental standpoint (no carb days SUCK), I see no reason to have to cycle on/off, goals permitting.

If someone could direct me to a good and detailed post about this way of eating I would really appreciate it too. Thanks guys

Hopefully the info above was helpful.

[digsy1983]

Solid advise as always gb, but personally I've actually found the no carb days to be enjoyable. At the beginning they were awful! The first week I tried the diet I was ready to quit it on day 2 of no carbs. I felt depressed, tired, couldn't think straight, but after the initial shock of it I've really grown to love the cycling. You can blast carbs for a period, then feel slightly guilty and really focus more on the fat burning side.of it.

It's a really effective plan and it gives you a break from the boring side of dieting. I'd recommended it to anyone that is.serious about dropping BF levels, cant comment on it for bulking tbh as I've never used it for such. But I have noticed strength and also muscle.gain whike using it for cutting, so it should yield good results for bulking.

As long as you make it through the first low carb period you should enjoy it.

[gbrice75]

Solid advise as always gb, but personally I've actually found the no carb days to be enjoyable. At the beginning they were awful! The first week I tried the diet I was ready to quit it on day 2 of no carbs. I felt depressed, tired, couldn't think straight, but after the initial shock of it I've really grown to love the cycling. You can blast carbs for a period, then feel slightly guilty and really focus more on the fat burning side.of it.

God bless, you're a better man than me lol! I never could quite get past the crappy feeling, and ALWAYS looked forward to that carb up day. It's sort of a quasi-keto diet style really... which makes sense because both times I ran a true keto diet, I failed miserably and felt like crap. But, i'm a carb junkie, so this makes sense.

It's a really effective plan and it gives you a break from the boring side of dieting. I'd recommended it to anyone that is.serious about dropping BF levels, cant comment on it for bulking tbh as I've never used it for such. But I have noticed strength and also muscle.gain whike using it for cutting, so it should yield good results for bulking.

As long as you make it through the first low carb period you should enjoy it.

Great point. A conventional cut diet has you restricting calories for what seems like months on end... no break... it gets really depressing... and it's not ideal for metabolism long term. Carb cycling on the other hand has you constantly changing, so just as it starts to get old, you're doing something else - not the mention the very rewarding carb up day. It's not only about getting to eat the stuff; I remember actually feeling GREAT by the time mid-day hit. You really do feel those carbs getting back in your system. All charged up, muscles feel full, etc. Good stuff!

[Armdaddy]

Everybody wants to add muscle and lost bodyfat, lol. Even with carb cycling, you'll need to choose a primary goal, and your total caloric intake will dictate said goal. How tall are you? I'd have to reserve advice re: carb cycling until I know what you really want to get out of it for the short term (i.e. add mass or lose bodyfat, primarily).



Just based on your workout day split, I would imagine you're gearing towards adding mass moreso than losing bodyfat, is that right?



Again, depending on the goal, here's what I do:

When adding mass is my primary goal, and with your schedule in mind:

Monday - workout - high
Tuesday - off (cardio) low
Wednesday - workout - high
Thursday - off (cardio) - low
Friday - workout - high
Saturday - off (cardio) - low
Sunday - off (rest day) - NO starchy carbs, fibrous veggies only

When adding bodyfat is the primary goal, I wouldn't go with your schedule at all tbh. Here's what my last fat loss carb cycle looked like:

Monday - workout - moderate
Tuesday - workout - moderate
Wednesday - workout - moderate
Thursday - workout - no starchy carbs (fibrous veggies only)
Friday - workout - no starchy carbs (fibrous veggies only)
Saturday - cardio/conditioning - no starchy carbs (fibrous veggies only)
Sunday - off (complete rest) - HIGH

The first example (adding mass) seems much more obvious - high carbs on workout days, low on non workout days, etc. The second example might surprise you a bit, particularly having a high carb day on an off day. Seems counter-intuitive, right? Here's how it works:

Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday - we're workout out our heaviest stuff (legs, back, etc) and keeping glycogen stores topped off with moderate carb intake, thereby fueling the workouts. Thursday and Friday are still training days but lighter stuff (maybe arms, shoulders, abs, etc) - we're now working on no carbs, thereby depleting glycogen stores in the muscles and liver. Continued on saturday with cardio. At this point, if you're training hard and truly avoiding starchy carbs for 3 consecutive days, glycogen stores should be pretty well depleted and you're primarily burning bodyfat. Sunday is a complete rest day - rest = refuel, hence, high carbs. We're restoring glycogen to max in order to start the cycle over again on Monday. VERY effective.



All depends on your total calories, and again, your goal. Higher for adding mass obviously. For fat loss, you'd only have a single 'high' day, and even that wouldn't be considered 'high' by most people's standards.



Nutritionally speaking, yes. White is nothing more than 'stripped down' brown. But I wouldn't make much of an issue over this. So long as you're not eating the rice by itself (and you shouldn't be), it won't make much of a difference.



IMO, YES.



I think it's an excellent way to eat. If you can handle it long term from a mental standpoint (no carb days SUCK), I see no reason to have to cycle on/off, goals permitting.



Hopefully the info above was helpful.

Wow I couldn't have asked for a more helpful post! Thank you for taking the time to write that out for me.

I should have made more things clear: I am 5"11, 22 years old, 150 lbs, 16% bf, and my primary goal at this time is to gain some size and strength.

As you said the first carb cycle you posted is pretty self explanatory and I have no questions about it. (It will also be the one I will chose to follow at this time). However, in some time I might switch to your second suggestion so I have a few questions about that one:

How important is it to stay away from carbs on the "NO CARB" days? I mean my whey protein and such has some carbs in it, can I still take that post work out? I know it's very important to replace glycose after a work out, so in a sense aren't you getting a lot less out of the workouts on the no carb days?

Also now that you have my stats, what is a good carb range in relation to "low", "moderate", and "high" days?

[gbrice75]

Wow I couldn't have asked for a more helpful post! Thank you for taking the time to write that out for me.

No problem brother!

I should have made more things clear: I am 5"11, 22 years old, 150 lbs, 16% bf, and my primary goal at this time is to gain some size and strength.

No worries. By the time I got to your schedule, it became pretty clear.

As you said the first carb cycle you posted is pretty self explanatory and I have no questions about it. (It will also be the one I will chose to follow at this time). However, in some time I might switch to your second suggestion so I have a few questions about that one:

How important is it to stay away from carbs on the "NO CARB" days?

First, let's be clear - we're staying away from 'starchy' carbs, not all carbs. To answer your question based on that clarification - very important. The goal during the 'no starchy carb' period is to deplete glycogen stores. If you're consuming starchy type carbs, you're topping off these stores and defeating the purpose. We want them depleted as fast as possible, because depleted glycogen = burning fat for fuel. The more intense the workout, coupled with staying true to the diet = faster depletion.

I mean my whey protein and such has some carbs in it, can I still take that post work out?

lol, yea, no problem. You can't avoid 'trace' amounts of carbs in various foods. What you can do is avoid eating rice, potatoes, oats, etc. Remember that you will still be getting carbs (of inconsequential caloric value, little to no effect on glycogen) if you're eating veggies. I don't want to derail the topic by going into why this is an excellent idea, but for now, just trust me that it is.

I know it's very important to replace glycose after a work out, so in a sense aren't you getting a lot less out of the workouts on the no carb days?

If done properly, you'd have your most demanding workouts (chest, legs, back, etc) planned during the moderate carb days. This way, you're eating carbs pre/pwo, thereby restoring glycogen. Consider this a brief maintenance phase.

You'd plan less demanding workouts (arms, shoulders, abs, etc) during the no starchy carb days. However, the workouts should still be kept intense as you want to deplete glycogen ASAP. You're not 'getting less' out of your workout; that all depends on how hard you work, i.e. what you put in. Don't forget that you'll still be working on a relatively full 'glycogen tank' on at least the 1st no-carb day, and probably into the 2nd. You'll really start feeling it by the 3rd day though... just in time for the carb up though!! You don't HAVE to have loaded glycogen stores to workout, however that is ideal where muscle growth is the primary goal. In this case, it isn't. Consider this a brief 'fat blasting' phase.

The single high carb/rest day serves a few purposes:

1 - rest your body
2 - replenish glycogen stores
3 - if you're lucky, a bit of growth!!! - as this day will likely be slightly hypercaloric

Also now that you have my stats, what is a good carb range in relation to "low", "moderate", and "high" days?

Based on your stats, i'd figure your TDEE to be somewhere around 1900 - 2000 calories. I'd like to see pics if you have any. At 5'11 and 16% bodyfat, i'm surprised you're only 150lbs. I'm your height and currently 16-17% (guesstimate) and i'm 215lbs, lol! I'm not a particularly big guy, muscularly. So i'm just wondering if it's your frame, etc.

In any event, i'd probably make it easy and call your TDEE 2000. I'd set my days up as follows:

Workout/High Carb - 200g protein, 325g carbs, 45g fat (500 calorie surplus, carbs in all meals except before bed)

Cardio/Low Carb - 200g protein, 200g carbs, 45g fat (maintenance calories, carbs in 1st half of day only - cardio done in the am in fasted state if possibe)

Rest/No Carb - 250g protein, trace carbs, 55g fat (500 calorie deficit, fibrous veggies only)

Note that you would have to monitor this closely and very likely make adjustments as you go along. Also, this isn't a 'right or wrong', just one way to do it which I think is an effective plan.

[BozzBanks]

Based on your stats, i'd figure your TDEE to be somewhere around 1900 - 2000 calories. I'd like to see pics if you have any. At 5'11 and 16% bodyfat, i'm surprised you're only 150lbs. I'm your height and currently 16-17% (guesstimate) and i'm 215lbs, lol! I'm not a particularly big guy, muscularly. So i'm just wondering if it's your frame, etc.

I just took this photo. Haha as you might have guessed I haven't worked out in a long time. I hurt my back doing deadlifts about 5 months ago and haven't touched a weight since; this is my first week back. I was about 184 before, but that was with steroids as well -.-

I no longer want to be huge, I just want to be strong and ripped (kind of like your picture there Brice haha). However being 150 with a 6 pack is like a fat chick with a great rack.. I think at least 170 would be pretty good for frame and height. I figured the best way to spark muscle memory and add quick lbs of muscle would be to do "rippetoes 3x5 workout" which is why my split is the way it is. I figure I will follow this regiment and your first sample diet and get a little bigger and stronger, and then switch to your second suggestion to drop that damn BF !

[auswest]

Going by your photo I wouldn't even worry about confusing things with carb cycling yet. You need a good steady diet you can stick too, I would also recommend a 4 or 5 day split tbh, I really don't want to sound mean, but you mention you have been out the gym due to back injury, I'm unsure if you were ever in the gym... And you honestly used steroids :/, you're doing something wrong, get a solid steady diet and start lifting weights, don't make things complicated just yet, IMO good luck

[BozzBanks]

Almost forgot! What are the benefits of using the first carb cycling option you proposed compared to just eating a sufficient amount of carbs/proteins every day in relation to gaining muscle and size?

[BozzBanks]

Going by your photo I wouldn't even worry about confusing things with carb cycling yet. You need a good steady diet you can stick too, I would also recommend a 4 or 5 day split tbh, I really don't want to sound mean, but you mention you have been out the gym due to back injury, I'm unsure if you were ever in the gym... And you honestly used steroids :/, you're doing something wrong, get a solid steady diet and start lifting weights, don't make things complicated just yet, IMO good luck

Well you would be surprised by how much muscle mass you can lose with 6 months of malnutrition and no exercise. I was actually pretty big, but using steroids was definitely a big mistake in my life and one that I have learned from at that. I don't have any desire to be big and bulky anymore. I would be happy with a 6 pack (which is why I am implementing carb cycling) and about 10-15 lbs gained eventually.

[auswest]

Well you would be surprised by how much muscle mass you can lose with 6 months of malnutrition and no exercise. I was actually pretty big, but using steroids was definitely a big mistake in my life and one that I have learned from at that. I don't have any desire to be big and bulky anymore. I would be happy with a 6 pack (which is why I am implementing carb cycling) and about 10-15 lbs gained eventually.

I would start out simple and get back into the swing of things save the carb cycling for when its needed, as you are currently you'll benefit from a correct diet alone, save the carb cycling for when your body starts fighting back and not responding IMO..

[digsy1983]

I'd have to agree with what auswest view. If you just go for a lean bulk now, after a few days of the diet you'll be in the.swing of it and then you can focus entirely on your workouts and your body will have a constants supply of fuel and nutrients.

I'm looking to utilise carb cycling while bulking, not sure how I'm going to set it up yet mainly due to a 7 day cycle isn't practicable for me. I've endured it while cutting cos I was following the UD2.0 diet. I'd suggest you read the carb cycling book by Lyle McDonald prior to starting the cycling diet. He explains in clear and precise details the theory and practical reasons of why and what you do.

[digsy1983]

Also, Think the carb cycling while bulking is suited to people that have cut down BF levels and don't want to put a lot of fat back on. But if youre 16-17% now your body will easily burn that fat, and also any extra you gain while bulking without too much difficulty.
So Maybe a lean bulk than a good cut would be a good base then to carb cycle. And it would also give you time to read up on cycling.

[gbrice75]

I just took this photo. Haha as you might have guessed I haven't worked out in a long time. I hurt my back doing deadlifts about 5 months ago and haven't touched a weight since; this is my first week back. I was about 184 before, but that was with steroids as well -.-

I no longer want to be huge, I just want to be strong and ripped (kind of like your picture there Brice haha). However being 150 with a 6 pack is like a fat chick with a great rack.. I think at least 170 would be pretty good for frame and height. I figured the best way to spark muscle memory and add quick lbs of muscle would be to do "rippetoes 3x5 workout" which is why my split is the way it is. I figure I will follow this regiment and your first sample diet and get a little bigger and stronger, and then switch to your second suggestion to drop that damn BF !

Wait... are you the OP logged in under a different name or something? #CONFUSED

Going by your photo I wouldn't even worry about confusing things with carb cycling yet. You need a good steady diet you can stick too, I would also recommend a 4 or 5 day split tbh, I really don't want to sound mean, but you mention you have been out the gym due to back injury, I'm unsure if you were ever in the gym... And you honestly used steroids :/, you're doing something wrong, get a solid steady diet and start lifting weights, don't make things complicated just yet, IMO good luck

I would start out simple and get back into the swing of things save the carb cycling for when its needed, as you are currently you'll benefit from a correct diet alone, save the carb cycling for when your body starts fighting back and not responding IMO..

You know, this is good advice that I agree with. You originally inquired about carb cycling (assuming you are the OP) so that's what I responded to. You can just keep it really simple for now and focus on adding a bit of mass while keeping bodyfat at bay. Ultimately it's up to you. More important than the 'flavor' of diet is choosing something you can stick to and remain consistent with. The greatest diet in the world won't do jack for you if you can't stick to it.

[Armdaddy]

Wait... are you the OP logged in under a different name or something? #CONFUSED





You know, this is good advice that I agree with. You originally inquired about carb cycling (assuming you are the OP) so that's what I responded to. You can just keep it really simple for now and focus on adding a bit of mass while keeping bodyfat at bay. Ultimately it's up to you. More important than the 'flavor' of diet is choosing something you can stick to and remain consistent with. The greatest diet in the world won't do jack for you if you can't stick to it.

Oops yeah I logged in on the other account I had made a year ago, which I used to try to get information about steroids although I was underage. Not too proud of that, but yeah we all make mistakes.

Anyways, thanks for all the advice.

[Armdaddy]

Also, Think the carb cycling while bulking is suited to people that have cut down BF levels and don't want to put a lot of fat back on. But if youre 16-17% now your body will easily burn that fat, and also any extra you gain while bulking without too much difficulty.
So Maybe a lean bulk than a good cut would be a good base then to carb cycle. And it would also give you time to read up on cycling.

Thank you this might be my best bet.