Thoughts? Low-T and Low Thyroid

[ab037]

Hey guys,

I told my Kaiser Dr. about alot of symptoms I was feeling such as Extreme tiredness, no energy, low libido, weakness, weight gain etc. and asked to run blood work. He agreed and ran the basics basically rbc,wbc, thyroid, glucose, and total testosterone. (my stats 39 y.o. 6'2" 225-230lbs est 22%+ bf)
kaiser test results-
total testosterone 231 range >220
TSH 6.5 range 0.1 - 5.5 2nd run retested 1 week later with kaiser at 7.4 same range
Glucose 90 range 60-99
After this I requested additional blood work tests to be run like LH, Prolactin, PSA, Estradiol, Total and free testosterone... DR refused, would not send over the lab requisition. after 4-5 emails of back and forth I changed to another DR and requested same tests, he refused as well. Neither would discuss the LOW-T only the thyroid issue. Prescribed synthroid and said come back in a few months and we will re-test to see if your Testosterone levels have risen.. Naturally frustrated I decided to just pay on my own and got the lab done I wanted.. Results -

TSH 7.14 range .45- 4.5
total testosterone 322 range 350-1150
free- testosterone 7.99 range 5-21
LH 3.4 range 1.7- 8.6
Prolactin 10 range 4- 15.2
total cholesterol 210 range 100-199
hdl cholesterol 61 range >39
ldl cholesterol 131 range 0-99

Planning to see Dr Ullis asap but would appreciate any thoughts. Low-T, Low thyroid, high cholesterol = not good
much thx

[ab037]

glucose is actually 99 range 60-99
hemoglobin 15.4 range 12.6-17.7
hematocrit 45.1 range 37.5-51
t4 6.6 range 4.5-12
t3 uptake 31 range 24-39

if any more info is needed plz ask I pulled the male hormone panel so have several pages of data..

[ab037]

bump

[asiandudexxx]

Did you happen to get the free & total t3 & t4?

When do you plan to meet with Dr. Ullis? You'll definitely be in good hands with him.

[steroid.com 1]

On Droid so can't get into this like lap top...but your TSH (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone) is very high...too high in fact.

It suggests Hypothyroidism which has many of the same symptoms as Hypogonadism.

Know, Hypothyroidism will cause Hypogonadism.

You need a thorough Thyroid panel run as soon as you can.

[Peer]

Thyroid replacement is reasonable 1st step
Also ask for antithyroglobin Ab' along with TSH, T3, FREE T4 when u get a reasonable doc

[nyjetsfan]

On Droid so can't get into this like lap top...but your TSH (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone) is very high...too high in fact.

It suggests Hypothyroidism which has many of the same symptoms as Hypogonadism.

Know, Hypothyroidism will cause Hypogonadism.

You need a thorough Thyroid panel run as soon as you can.

Totally agree.. TSH is sky high. I was around 5 (Sub clinical hypo) and I was a mess. On Armour Thyroid now and getting better. also on TRT for years. Keep in mind that hypothyroidism will cause poor labs on : Cholesterol, triglycerides, test, and iron amount others (get your iron labs done!)

[SlimmerMe]

Hi~ As all agree above LOW thyroid. You mentioned your doc prescribed Synthroid and said to come back in a few months? Perhaps a month or a bit longer but to wait for a few months? Try not to wait much longer if possible. And if you want to monitor yourself to see if the synthroid is working, then you might consider doing so. Some people do not do well on just T4 alone. Synthroid is supposed to convert to T3 but does not do so for many people. And if this is the case, then try to get a script for both t3/t4 like armour or equivalent. Personally I do much better on the combo. Ideally you want your TSH level to be under 2. Remember TSH is read inversely.

Also you might want to get a TPO positive test which will show if you are already in the Hashimoto range.

Best part? You are being pro-active. Just keep monitoring since your thyroid levels are not something to mess around with.

Good luck!

[nyjetsfan]

Hi~ As all agree above LOW thyroid. You mentioned your doc prescribed Synthroid and said to come back in a few months? Perhaps a month or a bit longer but to wait for a few months? Try not to wait much longer if possible. And if you want to monitor yourself to see if the synthroid is working, then you might consider doing so. Some people do not do well on just T4 alone. Synthroid is supposed to convert to T3 but does not do so for many people. And if this is the case, then try to get a script for both t3/t4 like armour or equivalent. Personally I do much better on the combo. Ideally you want your TSH level to be under 2. Remember TSH is read inversely.

Also you might want to get a TPO positive test which will show if you are already in the Hashimoto range.

Best part? You are being pro-active. Just keep monitoring since your thyroid levels are not something to mess around with.

Good luck!

Spot on Slimmer! TSH under 2 is ideal. What are your thoughts on ideal T3 & T4 labs?

[SlimmerMe]

Spot on Slimmer! TSH under 2 is ideal. What are your thoughts on ideal T3 & T4 labs?

Thanks! I would have to look into this more thoroughly re: ideal t3/t4. Good question.

[steroid.com 1]

Labs:

TSH
Free T4
Free T3
Reverse T3
Antibodies

There are few more but this will be enough to diagnose.

[ab037]

Thanks everybody for the input.. Let me double check my recent lab and see if any of those tests where on the male hormone panel.. I am seeing dr Ullis friday.

[ab037]

this is what I have currently

[joebailey1271]

Your E is allready too low, maybe thats causing some problems

[ab037]

I was thinking that as well from reading around the forums.. hopefully on friday the Dr can get me going on the right track.. will keep you guys posted.. Does TRT even make sense for me at this point? My first bloodwork showed a total test at 230, this one a week later at 330?

[joebailey1271]

Before i started trt, my e level was 22. I started on to much anastrazole and it went low and i felt like sh-t to be honest, but i didnt even really care about that, it was the limp noodle that was the problem.

[ab037]

Im just wondering how much the thyroid is actually sapping my testosterone levels. Or if I would still be bottom range..

[ab037]

free t4=1 range .8 - 1.7 ng/dl
t3 total = 108 range 50-170
tsh = 7.46 range .1- 5.5
tpo ab = 86 range <35

[asiandudexxx]

Were you not able to get Free T3?

I'm assuming the doctor is probably going to want to address the Thyroid first and if Test doesn't improve, treat that when thyroid is optimized.

[ab037]

Ok back from Dr. and here is the plan:

Armour thyroid med 60mg am 30mg pm
HCG 30-day (stimulation test) to see if I am primary or secondary.
Bloodwork scheduled for day 31

Dr says based on my testosterone levels after the 30 day test will determine which way we go.

[asiandudexxx]

Good luck ab037, sounds like you are on track to getting the right treatment. Let us know how your journey goes. I'm on pretty much the same treatment protocol so it'll be interesting to see your results.

[nyjetsfan]

Ok back from Dr. and here is the plan:

Armour thyroid med 60mg am 30mg pm
HCG 30-day (stimulation test) to see if I am primary or secondary.
Bloodwork scheduled for day 31

Dr says based on my testosterone levels after the 30 day test will determine which way we go.

Agreed with this treatment 100%. Love Armour Throid! Also love the follow up time frame (31 days) and Direction of where your going with Test. Sounds like you have a knowledgable Dr thank god. Good luck bro

[ab037]

Thanks its nice to actually get somewhere with a physician rather than deal with the Kaiser BS.. Only problem Im having now is locating a pharmacy that actually has Pregnyl or Novarel.. lol

[asiandudexxx]

Thanks its nice to actually get somewhere with a physician rather than deal with the Kaiser BS.. Only problem Im having now is locating a pharmacy that actually has Pregnyl or Novarel.. lol

I had the same problem! Luckily my pharmacy was able to get Novarel for me. The compounding pharmacies and big box pharmacies should be able to order it for you for the next day.

[ab037]

Ok heres an update after the 30 day HCG test and Armour Thyroid.

Overall feeling is much improved. The DR wants to try a 30 day run of clomid 50mg at bedtime ED and .5mg of anastrozole every 4 days to lower E2 a bit. No increase in Armour dosage at this time.. Also suggested to increase Vit D3 intake to 6000 iu daily. I havent noticed any increase in Libido even with the increase in Test and still feel like my metabolism is in the tank.. I have been taking my temperature throughout the day for a week or so and am constantly hovering around 96.7- 97.3 Ive read that low temps correlates with hypothyroid, so makes me wonder if my Armour dosage is high enough even though TSH was at a good level on this LAB. At any rate things are improving and am very pleased at the progress and outlook. Any thought or opinions would be welcome.. Thanks guys

Forgot to mention that with the elevated TPO Dr is fairly certain I have Hashimotos. I have had at times very swollen and tender thyroid gland.

[asiandudexxx]

Hm it'd be nice to see free testosterone as well. I know my big problem is SHBG so even though my total is amazing, my free T is rock bottom and I still have low T symptoms. Perhaps your Free T is low as well, thus still leaving you with Low T symptoms.

Your FT3 and FT4 look okay.. It could also be your adrenals are out of whack, which could prevent you from feeling any positive effects of Armour. Would also explain the low temps. Hope the clomid stim works out for you

[texastea]

In addition to free T3, also test rT3 levels on your next bloodwork. Any chance that your slowed metabolism is caused by a low calorie diet?
EDIT: I just noticed your doctor's Hashimoto's diagnosis. Would still be curious about the above.

[asiandudexxx]

In addition to free T3, also test rT3 levels on your next bloodwork. Any chance that your slowed metabolism is caused by a low calorie diet?
EDIT: I just noticed your doctor's Hashimoto's diagnosis. Would still be curious about the above.

Yes please, RT3, that totally slipped my mind as well.

In your opinion what would the implications of a low calorie diet be? I think that may have been what aggravated my particular situation.

[ab037]

That is possible I suppose. What would you consider to be low enough to cause that? I was sticking around 1800-2200 cals a day. Ill be doing more labs in a couple weeks, Ill see if I can add the Reverse T3? right?

[texastea]

Yes please, RT3, that totally slipped my mind as well.

In your opinion what would the implications of a low calorie diet be? I think that may have been what aggravated my particular situation.

It's been difficult to find corroboration by medical studies, but it seems that rT3 is increased during long periods of reduced caloric intake to prevent starvation by slowing the metabolism, perhaps by up to 20% or so. This was a great mechanism 100 years ago, but in today's bountiful food supply, not so much. With a slowed metabolism, bodyfat will be retained and dieting is, of course, self defeating.

[texastea]

That is possible I suppose. What would you consider to be low enough to cause that? I was sticking around 1800-2200 cals a day. Ill be doing more labs in a couple weeks, Ill see if I can add the Reverse T3? right?

You're probably not getting enough calories, especially if you engage in intense workouts. An easy estimate of daily caloric needs is to multiply your bodyweight by a factor of 10 for your basal metabolic rate - amount to keep the body functioning; then add 20% for normal physical activity. At 225 pounds, you would need closer to 2700 calories. Since every one is unique, this would be the starting point from which you would make adjustments, depending on your experience.

[ab037]

You're probably not getting enough calories, especially if you engage in intense workouts. An easy estimate of daily caloric needs is to multiply your bodyweight by a factor of 10 for your basal metabolic rate - amount to keep the body functioning; then add 20% for normal physical activity. At 225 pounds, you would need closer to 2700 calories. Since every one is unique, this would be the starting point from which you would make adjustments, depending on your experience.

Thanks for the info. Ill definitely take all into consideration when adjusting my diet and exercise