IF,CKD,IIFYM Plan

**energizer bunny** · 02-02-2013, 03:55 PM

Please help me with my diet to start in April......im getting as much info as possible and id like your input to help me get this exact for the condition classic competition..

im going to be trying out an Intermittent fasting combined with a cyclic ketogenic diet using if it fits your macros approach to foods.....so my IF,CKD,IIFYM

ill be starting my fast on a sunday evening at 2200 through untill 1400-1600 the next afternoon monday-saturday am, so ill be doing a 16-18 hour fast.....all the while during the week in my 6-8 hour eating windows i will be eating CKD style 60/35/5 ratio of fat/pro/carbs.......ill be doing this untill saturday morning when i do my depletion workout then straight into my carb load....my carb load will last from sat 1000 through to sunday 2200 so carb load of 36 hours......

CKD week day plan...

ill be eating 1800 cals per day 60fat/35pro/5carb, works out about 1080 cals/120gram from fat,630 cals/157gram from protein, 90 cals/22.5gram from carbs
im going to aim to eat this in 2 meals.

CKD Carb Load....weekend 36 hours

my ratio for this will be 70carb/15pro/15fat for the firts 24 hours which will actually be from 1000 sat a.m through untill 2300 sat p.m.....during this time my calorie intake will be doubled so i will have 3600 cals roughly about 2520 cals/630gram from carbs, 540 cals/135gram of protein, 540 cals/60grams of fat.

for the next 24 hours i.e from sunday awake time untill 2200 sunday p.m ill be following a ratio of 60carbs/25protein/15fat....during this time my calorie intake will be lowered to about 2300 cals which is maintenance....so about 1380 cals/345gram from carbs, 575 cals/144grams from protein, 345 cals/38gram from fat.

for the first 24 hour period ill be consuming simple carbs, moving from liquids in the first half of the day to solids in the later part of the day.

for the second 24 hour period ill be consuming complex carbs....

ill be doing this plan from april through untill july 1st....

i will get foods and other stuff sorted between now and the start and ill use this thread as my go to place......if anyone has any input id appreciate your help....

the numbers i have used may change as i am in the process of cutting as we speak and my LBM and body fat will peob be different,,,,though the ratios and structure will stay the same.

cheers!!

**--->>405<<---** · 02-02-2013, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by energizer bunny

Please help me with my diet to start in April......im getting as much info as possible and id like your input to help me get this exact for the condition classic competition..

im going to be trying out an Intermittent fasting combined with a cyclic ketogenic diet using if it fits your macros approach to foods.....so my IF,CKD,IIFYM

ill be starting my fast on a sunday evening at 2200 through untill 1400-1600 the next afternoon monday-saturday am, so ill be doing a 16-18 hour fast.....all the while during the week in my 6-8 hour eating windows i will be eating CKD style 60/35/5 ratio of fat/pro/carbs.......ill be doing this untill saturday morning when i do my depletion workout then straight into my carb load....my carb load will last from sat 1000 through to sunday 2200 so carb load of 36 hours......

1. why are u doing a depletion workout saturday am and plan to replenish carbs immediately??

2. the purpose of depleting muscle glycogen is to force the body to utilize body fat for fuel as opposed to muscle glycogen. IMO ur depletion would be better positioned on monday and tuesday (i would run a 2 day depletion)..

3. what is IIFYM?

**krugerr** · 02-02-2013, 07:02 PM

IIFYM. If it fits your macros.

**auswest** · 02-02-2013, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by krugerr

IIFYM. If it fits your macros.

People using this are of the belief all macros are even, wether they be slow fast, clean/dirty as in 50g from fruit loops is the same as 50g from brown rice..
It's ok in moderation but I believe people are using it wrong and taking advantage of it, the only way I see it works is by fitting a weekly cheat meal into your normal macros, where some people live off pure junk, in moderation I see it as a good thing as it allows for a practical lifestyle.but I believe there are way to many problems with it, I do not rate it.

**energizer bunny** · 02-03-2013, 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

1. why are u doing a depletion workout saturday am and plan to replenish carbs immediately??

2. the purpose of depleting muscle glycogen is to force the body to utilize body fat for fuel as opposed to muscle glycogen. IMO ur depletion would be better positioned on monday and tuesday (i would run a 2 day depletion)..

3. what is IIFYM?

Hey 405 thanks droping in......

1 and 2. with the reading i have been doing on CKD it clearly states to start your carb load immediately before-during-after your full body depletion work out, which for me will be sat a.m......i will have been with out carbs(well very limited) since the sunday evening so that would be roughly 5 half days so surely ill be useing fat for fuel during that week?

IIFYM......if it fits your macros.........

**energizer bunny** · 02-03-2013, 02:41 AM

Originally Posted by auswest

People using this are of the belief all macros are even, wether they be slow fast, clean/dirty as in 50g from fruit loops is the same as 50g from brown rice..
It's ok in moderation but I believe people are using it wrong and taking advantage of it, the only way I see it works is by fitting a weekly cheat meal into your normal macros, where some people live off pure junk, in moderation I see it as a good thing as it allows for a practical lifestyle.but I believe there are way to many problems with it, I do not rate it.

cheers for your reply auswest.........i disagree a little bit on this, as i cant see how anyone can hit there macros and calories with only junk foods, also i think even if you could that would be a terrible idea.......i just wont be worrying about timings of food and if i have oats and whey instead of tuna or white instead of brown rice etc...

**--->>405<<---** · 02-03-2013, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by energizer bunny

Hey 405 thanks droping in......

1 and 2. with the reading i have been doing on CKD it clearly states to start your carb load immediately before-during-after your full body depletion work out, which for me will be sat a.m......i will have been with out carbs(well very limited) since the sunday evening so that would be roughly 5 half days so surely ill be useing fat for fuel during that week?

IIFYM......if it fits your macros.........

maybe theres an approach im unfamiliar with, but that makes no sense to me looking at depletion from the perspective i learned about the carb cycle diet from. fully depleting muscle glycogen seems to serve no purpose if ur just going to refill it immediately.. id be interested to hear the explanation... typically it takes 10-12 sets per body part 15-20reps (under tension 45-60secs per set) at approx 60% 1 rep max to deplete muscle glycogen.

depending the workout split u have and how frequently and with what volume u lift will determine when muscle glycogen will be fully depleted. with the UD2.0 it took me 48hrs to deplete and this is with 2 days in a row of deliberate depletion workouts. assuming u just work out normally all week (which is the logical conclusion i come to based on the fact u stated u would do ur depletion workout saturday) u may not be depleted all week if u work one body part per day. now the ckd does not require glycogen depletion for fat loss to occur but im failing to see the reasoning behind the depletion workout if ur just gonna refill it immediately. maybe there is some sort of mechanism i am unaware of. curious to the reasoning given for the depletion workout? maybe i can learn something here.. what reason does the book give?

i would be careful with IIFYM .. theoretically it sounds like itd be ok but most tasty cheat type foods are heavy fat and carb laden with little to no protein. typically its hard to eat a decent amount of cheat type foods and get filled up to a satisfying level without compromising at least one of ur goal macros.. at least thats how i have found it to be.

maybe some carbs u can eat with high sugar content and low fat but the carb count adds up pretty quikly for the small amount of volume u get. for example 2 servings of my peanut butter capn crunch = 46g carbs (roughly the same as a cup oats). id get a lot more satiation from the cup oats..

what ckd book are u using?

this diet ur not going to implement until april right?

**Back In Black** · 02-03-2013, 07:15 AM

Tops thread on CKD on this site recommends separation workout at end of week and then start your 24-36hr carb load.

**energizer bunny** · 02-03-2013, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

maybe theres an approach im unfamiliar with, but that makes no sense to me looking at depletion from the perspective i learned about the carb cycle diet from. fully depleting muscle glycogen seems to serve no purpose if ur just going to refill it immediately.. id be interested to hear the explanation... typically it takes 10-12 sets per body part 15-20reps (under tension 45-60secs per set) at approx 60% 1 rep max to deplete muscle glycogen.

depending the workout split u have and how frequently and with what volume u lift will determine when muscle glycogen will be fully depleted. with the UD2.0 it took me 48hrs to deplete and this is with 2 days in a row of deliberate depletion workouts. assuming u just work out normally all week (which is the logical conclusion i come to based on the fact u stated u would do ur depletion workout saturday) u may not be depleted all week if u work one body part per day. now the ckd does not require glycogen depletion for fat loss to occur but im failing to see the reasoning behind the depletion workout if ur just gonna refill it immediately. maybe there is some sort of mechanism i am unaware of. curious to the reasoning given for the depletion workout? maybe i can learn something here.. what reason does the book give?

i would be careful with IIFYM .. theoretically it sounds like itd be ok but most tasty cheat type foods are heavy fat and carb laden with little to no protein. typically its hard to eat a decent amount of cheat type foods and get filled up to a satisfying level without compromising at least one of ur goal macros.. at least thats how i have found it to be.

maybe some carbs u can eat with high sugar content and low fat but the carb count adds up pretty quikly for the small amount of volume u get. for example 2 servings of my peanut butter capn crunch = 46g carbs (roughly the same as a cup oats). id get a lot more satiation from the cup oats..

what ckd book are u using?

this diet ur not going to implement until april right?

cheers again for the reply........im following a protocol from lyle mcdonald for my ckd approach.......heres a link to an articale that i think explains all you are asking

yes 405 ill not be starting this untill April as i am following a standard split at this time and getting results......and with IIFYM approach ill not be eating junk foods just wont be worrying about brown over white rice, sweet over normal potatoes etc....

**energizer bunny** · 02-03-2013, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by SteM

Tops thread on CKD on this site recommends separation workout at end of week and then start your 24-36hr carb load.

over the years ive had some PMs with Top on this subject and have followed his recommendations with some success.....i say some because id not followed macro splits/calories for my TDEE etc or had an organised carb up (i just cheated all weekend)

i think with folloeing macros,cals....corect structure the plan i have will be great for my goals.......whats your opinion on this SteM?

**Back In Black** · 02-03-2013, 08:13 AM

Tried it. Hated it. Particularly the carb load. Also saw what all the fat did to the pipes in my dishwasher and figured it might do the same to my own pipes!

**energizer bunny** · 02-03-2013, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by SteM

Tried it. Hated it. Particularly the carb load. Also saw what all the fat did to the pipes in my dishwasher and figured it might do the same to my own pipes!

good answer! ha..........well i can train with just as much intensity with carbs as without them so thats not an issue,,,,,,,,,,ill only be doing this to get super lean for 12 weeks then ill switch back onto a more standard diet split.....i wouldnt like to follow this year round.

**--->>405<<---** · 02-03-2013, 10:34 AM

interesting article! i tried to figure out when it was written and couldnt find any dates except the dates at the bottom for references, most of which were dated in the mid 1990's.

ultimate diet 2.0 which is a CKD written by lyle macdonald was published in 2003. in the book the notion of the position of the carb load in relation to the depletion workouts as well as the rest of the diet is in direct conflict with this article u published. lyle claims the depletion workout does best as full body (which he also endorses in UD2) positioned directly before the carb load in order to accomplish full glycogen compensation and/or supercompensation. in UD2 the carb load begins on the evening of day 4 (7 day cycle) and depletion workouts are done on days 1 and 2..

seems to me itd be important to figure out which one is the most recent. it almost looks like this article was written in 1998 but i am not positive of this.

**energizer bunny** · 02-03-2013, 10:51 AM

Cheers 405..........interesting stuff, ill have a read through more articles and through his website and maybe get the book......

**--->>405<<---** · 02-03-2013, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by energizer bunny

Cheers 405..........interesting stuff, ill have a read through more articles and through his website and maybe get the book......

i have the book.. ultimate diet 2.0 if u would like it pm me ur email address and ill email it to u. i also have stubborn fat solution which is awesome and really teaches one about body fat and how it works..

**krugerr** · 02-03-2013, 11:20 AM

405, could I possibly ask for those as well?

**Tron3219** · 02-03-2013, 11:23 AM

Let me catch em too big guy!

-TroN-

**Back In Black** · 02-03-2013, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

i have the book.. ultimate diet 2.0 if u would like it pm me ur email address and ill email it to u. i also have stubborn fat solution which is awesome and really teaches one about body fat and how it works..

There's some really good reading in the stubborn fat solution.

405, stop giving our secrets away, especially to people who I'm competing against in the next competition

**krugerr** · 02-03-2013, 11:32 AM

Hush SteM! I need this help, you saw my pictures from my log! I still have 8-9% bodyfat to shift before I'm really happy. I want to hit single digits, just so I can prove to myself that I can!

**energizer bunny** · 02-03-2013, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by SteM

There's some really good reading in the stubborn fat solution.

405, stop giving our secrets away, especially to people who I'm competing against in the next competition

steM you doing open or natural?

**energizer bunny** · 02-03-2013, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by krugerr

Hush SteM! I need this help, you saw my pictures from my log! I still have 8-9% bodyfat to shift before I'm really happy. I want to hit single digits, just so I can prove to myself that I can!

This!!!^^^^^^

**energizer bunny** · 02-03-2013, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

i have the book.. ultimate diet 2.0 if u would like it pm me ur email address and ill email it to u. i also have stubborn fat solution which is awesome and really teaches one about body fat and how it works..

hey man....that would be excellent, thank you!

pm coming your way.

**Back In Black** · 02-03-2013, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by energizer bunny

steM you doing open or natural?

You can have it, I'm open

Krugerr, I'm too polite to say if you are open you can GFY, so I'll just wish you the best of luck sir

**krugerr** · 02-03-2013, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by stem

krugerr, i'm too polite to say if you are open you can gfy, so i'll just wish you the best of luck sir

gfy??

**--->>405<<---** · 02-03-2013, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by SteM

There's some really good reading in the stubborn fat solution.

405, stop giving our secrets away, especially to people who I'm competing against in the next competition

LOL!! sorry pal! u know i havent used either of the 2 books in awhile. stubborn fat can be used anytime actually but ud2 personally was not able to get me to where im at currently but it was an awesome step along the way and i learned a LOT about carbs and how they are not to be feared.. also how my body responds to them. when u eat 1300g carbs in 30hrs u have no choice but to learn some stuff!

shoot i may run the diet once i get to maintenance here and there for a week or so just to get to take advantage of the carb load!

**--->>405<<---** · 02-03-2013, 11:57 AM

u have mail BTW!

**--->>405<<---** · 02-03-2013, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by krugerr

gfy??

LOL..

GFY = Go (single word for have sexual intercourse with) Yourself

**energizer bunny** · 02-03-2013, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by SteM

You can have it, I'm open

Krugerr, I'm too polite to say if you are open you can GFY, so I'll just wish you the best of luck sir

well we wont be competing as i will be natural.........so all good! ha

**energizer bunny** · 02-03-2013, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

u have mail BTW!

received!

**krugerr** · 02-03-2013, 12:07 PM

Ahh, we'll I'm open SteM, so game on! Thanks for the help 405, GFY SteM!

**Back In Black** · 02-03-2013, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by krugerr

Ahh, we'll I'm open SteM, so game on! Thanks for the help 405, GFY SteM!

Actually mate, if you hit 10% aren't you gonna have 2 ladies FY?

**krugerr** · 02-03-2013, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by SteM

Actually mate, if you hit 10% aren't you gonna have 2 ladies FY?

I would buddy, but she kicked me out 2 weeks ago. So I need to get the 10% so I can show her what she's missing!

**Back In Black** · 02-03-2013, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by krugerr

I would buddy, but she kicked me out 2 weeks ago. So I need to get the 10% so I can show her what she's missing!

Bloody lesbians!

**krugerr** · 02-03-2013, 02:10 PM

I know right, I'm living at my dads now until I can get my own place. Bloody women. Oh well, I get a lot of attention at work, so ill just abuse that for a while!

**Back In Black** · 02-03-2013, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by krugerr

I know right, I'm living at my dads now until I can get my own place. Bloody women. Oh well, I get a lot of attention at work, so ill just abuse that for a while!

Parents rent is cheaper though, normally. And now you can sow your wild seeds as often ad you want without any trace of guilt

**krugerr** · 02-03-2013, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by SteM

Parents rent is cheaper though, normally. And now you can sow your wild seeds as often ad you want without any trace of guilt

Fair one. Although the sooner I can move out the better. I hate my old mans house!

**energizer bunny** · 02-06-2013, 04:33 AM

Just finished reading the stuborn fat solution! most of it was way over my head but very interesting! cheers 405!

**--->>405<<---** · 02-06-2013, 05:17 AM

Originally Posted by energizer bunny

Just finished reading the stuborn fat solution! most of it was way over my head but very interesting! cheers 405!

read it again 3 more times!

the most important thing to take away from it IMO is the stubbron fat protocols

**Back In Black** · 02-06-2013, 05:22 AM

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

read it again 3 more times!

the most important thing to take away from it IMO is the stubbron fat protocols

Agreed.

EB, did you read UD 2.0 yet, you may find it a better option than your IIFYM, CKD, IF plan.

**energizer bunny** · 02-06-2013, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

read it again 3 more times!

the most important thing to take away from it IMO is the stubbron fat protocols

lol, ill def be reading the last 2 chapters again soon.........the other chapters maybe later..

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