HCG. PCT vs. During cycle

[bdl528]

Trying to fine tune my next cycle. Ive been trying to navigate thru the forums and read as much as i can. I see HCG is usually used for PCT, but i have been advised to use it on cycle. Im sure it can be used both ways from all that ive read. Looking for opinions or pros and cons!! Anyone?

[austinite]

no. hCG is to be used on cycle. Why would you run it during pct? You'll experience testicular atrophy on cycle and hCG will prevent that, it will also help you recover faster if you run it on cycle. Not sure where you heard otherwise.

[bdl528]

Seen it several times in the PCT Q&A, and also used as pct in steroid.com's cycles and stacks

[2jz_calgary]

If I remember correctly Hcg mimics LH keeping that communication open during cycle. The whole point of pct is to regain natural LH.

[MuscleInk]

Trying to fine tune my next cycle. Ive been trying to navigate thru the forums and read as much as i can. I see HCG is usually used for PCT, but i have been advised to use it on cycle. Im sure it can be used both ways from all that ive read. Looking for opinions or pros and cons!! Anyone?

How did you use it on previous cycles?

It's most commonly used ON cycle to help restart testicular function through LH mimicry mechanisms although the molecular cascade activated by LH and HCG is somewhat different.

Think of this simply analogy.....would you wait until the air is completely out of your tires before adding more to re-inflate or would you add the air as the tire pressure dropped but before they were completely deflated. Same principal. Why wait until your balls are in a complete state of deactivation before "re-inflating"?

MuscleInk

[bdl528]

There were too many threads to count using it in PCT. i read 5 or 6 of them. It is also listed as part of PCT on steroid.com's cycles and stacks. That is where i originally read it and listed it in my PCT. If this is wrong shouldnt it b corrected?

[emp]

hCG during PCT will prevent ur natural LH from getting up to speed...

[Provita]

This info will help

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread....#.UU77kPoazTp

[Buster Brown]

Hcg on cycle all the until 3 days prior to Pct. 250 iu's twice a week will keep them healthy and retain there mass so they can do there job correctly. This IS very important and shouldn't be taken lightly. I remember when no one used Hcg and you lost alot of your gains and one of the biggest factors was because your balls had atrophied so much on cycle.

[clarky.]

On cycle mate.

[mr.slippyfist69]

Not being a smart ass at all but......this is where he read it and I think maybe it should be revised soon before someone makes the same mistake I did 2 cycles ago. I understand that it was written a long time ago but none the less, to someone just starting AAS research this could really F them up.

http://www.steroid.com/how_to_come_off_steroids.php

[austinite]

^ everything is being updated. There are always cases in which hCG may be needed during pct, but it should always be used on cycle.

[mr.slippyfist69]

See and that's why I keep coming back to do ALL my research on this site because I know from experience that people on here are on top of things like this. Good show.

[bdl528]

other than that....great info!! thank u everyone for ur input!!

[bdl528]

One of the places i got the info on HCG for PCT was on the Steroid.com home page under cycles and stacks. I modeled my cycle on that info and now i glad i posted in this forum for more ideas. Dont know if maybe someone needs to check that and have it updated!!

[bdl528]

ok, thank you!! i also tried to post 2 different replies last night on where i got my info, but would not let me post! I dont understand why.

[MR10X]

How Do I Use HCG with Steroids?
April 14, 2010 By Michael Scally, M.D. 0 Comments and 0 Reactions
Q: What’s the logic behind all the different timing and dosing of HCG ?? We hear taking it every day, every other day, every 3rd, 4th, or 5th day.

What about the dosing ? I hear to take it easy to prevent desensitizing the testes. With this you hear anywhere from 100 units to 250 units to play it safe. Others say anywhere from 500 to 2500 units at a time…Isn’t that a bit much ?

What about the length of time? I hear two clinics suggest 10 days; others say 3-5 weeks. Where does all this come from and who’s right?

A: Almost everything you hear or read will be anecdotal and therefore subject to no verification. Experiences with hCG while on TRT are posted. The use of hCG for PCT is only partly related to its use on TRT.

hCG while on TRT is used for two reasons. One reason is cosmetic. While on TRT it is not unusual and more often expected to have testicular atrophy. This is variable from individual to individual. The other reason is to act as a stimulus so the testicles do not shut down and therefore will be easier to initiate independent function after AAS cessation.

Desensitization is a potential problem with hCG. I do not think you will experience it with doses of 500IU or less 3X/week. Studies have used this dose for considerably long periods. In my patients when hCG was used while on AAS the dose was 1000IU every 3 days with one month on hCG followed by one month off hCG.

hCG for PCT involves additional concepts. This is the timing of hCG in relation to other medications for return of HPTA functionality. Under normal conditions the HPTA is a tightly coupled dynamic feedback loop. It is this coupling that has to be achieved after AAS cessation to return to normal. The analogy I use is the starting of a car by pushing it from behind. Alone the care will not start but with pushing the clutch can be popped and the car started.

After AAS cessation the secretion of LH is nil. It will not be able to initiate T production until a certain stimulus LH level is reached. Studies have shown that the time for this to occur can be lengthy. Thus the idea is to ‘push’ the testicles with hCG and get them started. Once T production is initiated the dependent variable is LH. If the hCG is withdrawn without adequate LH to couple with the testicles return of HPTA functionality will fail.

The increased production of LH is achieved by a dual action of clomiphene citrate and tamoxifen. Clomiphene is a mixed agonist/antagonist (SERM) at the estradiol receptor. Clomiphene will increase the secretion of LH by action at the hypothalamo-pituitary area. Clomiphene will cause an increase in LH and secondarily increases in T and estradiol. Estradiol has a negative feedback influence on the HPTA. Estradiol is 200X the inhibitory effect of T per molar basis. Normal serum levels are the following:

Testosterone: 3-10 ng/ml (10-35 nM/L)

Estradiol: 15-65 pg/ml (55-240 pmol/L)

Tamoxifen will counteract the effect of the estradiol. Once the hCG is withdrawn the LH, initiated by clomiphene and tamoxifen, will couple with the testicles and take over production of T by the testicles. The levels of LH to maintain and couple with the testicles are maintained by clomiphene and tamoxifen. Clomiphene is continued for 15 days while Tamoxifen is continued for 30 days.

[bdl528]

sorry for the double posts!! wouldnt post any at all, i thought i did something wrong so re posted. guess they all got held up then posted all at once! More good info, thanx!!