doc prescribed me hcg!

[powerlifterty16]

Just got back from the urologists, and he didnt want to do trt(which is good since im 23)...he also laughed at me when i said i may have klines(which was a good laugh...saying im pretty big and masculine)

he said he wants to do 6 weeks of hcg 3 times per week to boost natural testosterone..he didnt want to do clomid though.

He prescribed 10,000 units of hcg, and he is going to prepare it in his office, and give me the first shot.

im buying it in the pharmacy for 195(i dont trust internet sources)

so does this sound like a good protocol?

[steroid.com 1]

As long as you're not Primary it may work. What were your LH/FSH labs on last BW?

Generally speaking, HCG as a mono line therapy is not very effective in raising serum levels to optimal levels.

You will get some lift for sure and one never knows as we're all different.

What is the injection protocol?

[powerlifterty16]

my lh was 5.6i think, but he didnt test the fsh. The protocol as i know it so far is 3x per week, and for a duration of 6 weeks. I dont know the dosage, but he prescribed me 10,000 units so maybe you guys experienced will know more.

If it doesnt work, that would be bad but not TERRIBLE....what would be terrible would be if it shut me down....but i dont mind trying it and having it not HELP...if that makes sense.

He said it stimulates lh, but from what i know it just acts as lh, and can turn it off.
im tempted to try it though.

[steroid.com 1]

my lh was 5.6i think, but he didnt test the fsh. The protocol as i know it so far is 3x per week, and for a duration of 6 weeks. I dont know the dosage, but he prescribed me 10,000 units so maybe you guys experienced will know more.

If it doesnt work, that would be bad but not TERRIBLE....what would be terrible would be if it shut me down....but i dont mind trying it and having it not HELP...if that makes sense.

He said it stimulates lh, but from what i know it just acts as lh, and can turn it off.
im tempted to try it though.

Correct.

Tell him you'd like to start with 250 iu EOD for the first 6 weeks and see what he says.

[powerlifterty16]

Correct.

Tell him you'd like to start with 250 iu EOD for the first 6 weeks and see what he says.

thanks man i appreciate the reply. so basically eod=3 days right? and the 6 week protocol as long as it's 250 iu shouldnt shut my lh down?

He said it was only 6 weeks, so im a little confused when you say ''first'' 6 weeks.

Do yu have any idea about the dose he prescribed being 10,000 units? I wont see him again until after i buy it...for a hefty 195 dollars....and only one pharmacy had it....but im ok with that price for peace of mind. i dont want to order it online...although i may call compounding pharmacies if you guys think it would be cheaper.

he is going to reconstitute it for me as well which im happy about.

[BallSak]

You probably could find it at a compounding pharmacy for a fourth of the price.

[steroid.com 1]

thanks man i appreciate the reply. so basically eod=3 days right? and the 6 week protocol as long as it's 250 iu shouldnt shut my lh down?
Every other day do an injection.

He said it was only 6 weeks, so im a little confused when you say ''first'' 6 weeks.
What the hell is the point in just doing it for 6 weeks if the plan is not long term if successful? Once you stop and your metabolism stabilizes you will go right back to your original base line. This isn't a short term solution.

Do yu have any idea about the dose he prescribed being 10,000 units? I wont see him again until after i buy it...for a hefty 195 dollars....and only one pharmacy had it....but im ok with that price for peace of mind. i dont want to order it online...although i may call compounding pharmacies if you guys think it would be cheaper.
The 10000 units is probably more than enough to get you 6 weeks of injections at 250 iu EOD.

he is going to reconstitute it for me as well which im happy about.

Needs to be refrigerated not long after it's reconstituted so please know that.

[powerlifterty16]

Needs to be refrigerated not long after it's reconstituted so please know that.

alright thanks. im not sure why he wants to do only 6 weeks. he said he wanted to do a booster and stimulate lh to see if my natty test can improve. he said i had nothing to lose by atleast trying it.

a fiend of mine said that if my lh goes down on it, it will come up again after stopping, although ive read about desentization.

not sure here.

[powerlifterty16]

also i had two questions on hcg. i heard that it causes rapid weight loss. I am looking to maintain weight or gain some weight and lose bf.

also one of my low t symptoms are migraines...i have heard hcg causes migraine...should i be concerned?

lastly does anyone know how long the scripts drs give are good for? i think im going to try the cortisol pills for a month before filling the hcg script

[powerlifterty16]

this was my lh a few weeks ago(dont hqave fsh results)

Test Low Normal High Reference Range Units
lh 5.2 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL



her's the thing though...i looked at old blood work, and when i just turned 21(bday) my lh was 2.0 and fsh was 2.9...and at 19 i had similar numbers....funny thing was at 21 my TT was 535 which is a record high lol...while now with 5.2 lh, im only at 339.....another interesting note is my dad's lh is 5.6 which is higher than mine
Quote Origin

[powerlifterty16]

her's the thing though...i looked at old blood work, and when i just turned 21(bday) my lh was 2.0 and fsh was 2.9...and at 19 i had similar numbers....funny thing was at 21 my TT was 535 which is a record high lol...while now with 5.2 lh, im only at 339.....another interesting note is my dad's lh is 5.6 which is higher than mine

this was my lh a few weeks ago(dont have fsh results)

Test Low Normal High Reference Range Units
lh 5.2 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL

[powerlifterty16]

her's the thing though...i looked at old blood work, and when i just turned 21(bday) my lh was 2.0 and fsh was 2.9...and at 19 i had similar numbers....funny thing was at 21 my TT was 535 which is a record high lol...while now with 5.2 lh, im only at 339.....another interesting note is my dad's lh is 5.6 which is higher than mine

bump?

[100%]

It looks like you Doctor may be using something like Dr Shippens protocal
Chorionic Gonadotrophin Stimulation Test (males < 75 years old)*

Chorionic Gonadotrophin is presently available through most pharmacies
or distributors as Profasi, Pregnyl or generic Chorionic Gonadotrophin
10,000 units per 10 cc vial. Various stimulation tests have been
described, from high dose, short course testing to more normal
physiologic doses over a longer time period. I have found that a typical
treatment course for three weeks is best for determining those
individuals who will respond well to this type of treatment. It is
administered by injection 500 units (0.5 cc) SQ, Monday through Friday
for three weeks. Teach patient to self administer with 50 Unit Insulin
Syringes with 30 gauge needles in anterior thigh, seated with both hands
free to perform the injection. Measure: Testosterone, total and free,
plus E2 before starting CG and on the third Saturday AM after 3 weeks of
stimulation (salivary testing may be more accurate for adjusting doses).
Studies have shown that SQ is equal in efficacy to IM administration.

Results:

1. <20% rise suggests poor testicular reserve of leydig cell function
(primary hypo-gonadism or eu-gonadotrophic hypo-gonadism indicating
combined central and peripheral factors).

2. 20-50% increase indicates adequate reserve but slightly depressed
response, mostly central inhibition but possibly decreased testicular response as well.
3. > 50% increase suggests primarily centrally mediated depression of
testicular function.

Options for treatment vary both with the response to CG and patient
determined choices.

1. If there is an inadequate response (< 20%), then replacement with
testosterone will be indicated.

2. The area in between 20-50% will usually require CG boosting for a
period of time, plus natural boosting or "partial" replacement options.
I believe that full replacement with exogenous testosterone is always
the last option in borderline cases since improvement over time may
frequently occur as leydig cell regeneration may actually happen. Much
of this is age dependent. Up to age 60, boosting is almost always
successful. 60-75 is variable, but will usually be clear by the results
of the stimulation test. Also, disease related depression of
testosterone output might be reversible with adequate treatment of the
underlying process (depression, AMI, obesity, alcohol, deficiency, etc.)
This positive effect will not occur if suppressive therapy is instituted
in the form of full replacement.
3. If there is an adequate response, >50% rise in testosterone, there is
very good leydig cell reserve. Natural boosting or CG therapy will
probably be successful in restoring full testosterone output without
replacement, a better option over the long term and a more natural
restoration of biologic fluctuations for optimal response.

4. Chorionic Gonadotrophin can be self-administered and adjusted
according to response. In younger, high output responders (T >
1100ng/dl), CG can be given every third or fourth day at bedtime or in
the AM. This also minimizes estrogen conversion. In lower level
responders(600-800ng/dl), or those with a higher E2 output associated
with full dose CG, 300-500 units can be given Mon-Wed-Fri. At times,
sluggish responders may require a higher dose to achieve full
Testosterone response. In these cases, the diluent is lowered to 7.5cc
or even to 5 cc, which increases the CG concentration 1 ½ - 2 X. This
can be administered in variable doses 0.3 - 0.5cc given every 3rd day.
Check salivary levels on the day of the next injection, but before the
next injection to determine effectiveness and to adjust the dose
accordingly. Keep in mind that later as leydig cell restoration occurs,
a reduction in dose or frequency of administration may be later needed.

5. Monitor both Testosterone and E2 levels to assess response to
treatment after 2 - 3 weeks after change in dose of CG as well as
periodic intervals during chronic administration. Sublingual testing is
very easy and cost effective. It will also better reflect the true free
levels of both estrogens and testosterone. (Pharmasan Labs 888-342-7272
is very good)

6. Adjustment of dosage is a result of symptomatic response and hormone
level boosting. It is based on clinical judgement as much as actual
hormone levels. Remember that "Normal" ranges are for populations, not
individuals!

7. Except for reports of antibodies developing against CG (I have not
seen this), there are no adverse effects of chronic CG administration.
An additional benefit is the boosting of Growth Hormone output which has
also been reported, either as a direct effect of CG or as an effect of
increased levels of testosterone.

*Protocol adapted from "The Testosterone Syndrome" by Eugene Shippen, M.
D. (M Evans and Co, NY 1998).

Eugene Shippen, M. D.

- David

[powerlifterty16]

any thoughts on my lh numbers? My most current lh was right in middle of range, but old lhs were 2..not sure if hcg would help considering 5.2 isnt bad


thanks for that article man...gives me more confidence in my dr. Im nervous though, that my doc wont give me the right dose of hcg and my e2 will go sky high. I dont want him giving me anything higher than 500 iu per day, preferrably nothing higher than 400.

The script he gave me only says 10,000 vials, and i assume he si going to tell me the dosing after i buy the hcg and bring it to him to inject for the first time.

I would like to call him and ask the dosing prior to purchasing it though...do you thin k ican lie and say the pharmacy wants to know?

[100%]

You don't have to lie. It is a legitimate question and concern. The choice is not his alone you have a say it your body and life. That being said you have the script so once it is filled dose it how you decide. The above article in a nut shell says if you gain over 50% from the hcg treatment you have a good shot at not having to go on exogenous testosterone. Under 20% increase chances are your gonna have to start supplementing testosterone. Either way its a fixable condition. Also if you are going to use a compound Pharmacy to fill you script you may need him to change it to 11,000 that what they seem to be dosing them at.

[100%]

Here is a good video on LH FSH

[powerlifterty16]

thanks for the replies. i know that hcg works best in men whoa re secondary since it acts like lh, so what im asking is, since my last lab was 5.2 lh on a scale of 1.7-8.6, would hcg be a waste?
my dr also isnt doing an ai and im terrified...since right now my test is nice and low normal.

i will add though that on my previous blood works from 2-3 years ago my lh was 2.0 on one and around the same on the other...and my fsh was 2.9 on the one where my lh was 2.0...and similar on the other. i couldnt find the other lab report. funny thing is that my TT was 477 and 535(with 2.0 lh and 2.9 fsh) while now with a tt of 339, my lh is 5.2.

[100%]

thanks for the replies. i know that hcg works best in men whoa re secondary since it acts like lh, so what im asking is, since my last lab was 5.2 lh on a scale of 1.7-8.6, would hcg be a waste?
my dr also isnt doing an ai and im terrified...since right now my test is nice and low normal.

i will add though that on my previous blood works from 2-3 years ago my lh was 2.0 on one and around the same on the other...and my fsh was 2.9 on the one where my lh was 2.0...and similar on the other. i couldnt find the other lab report. funny thing is that my TT was 477 and 535(with 2.0 lh and 2.9 fsh) while now with a tt of 339, my lh is 5.2.

Your hormones are in a constant state of motion blood can only capture small glimpse of whats going on at a given time. For example lets say your body senses your T is low LH is increased to send the signal to produce more T. If you took blood at that moment is will look like you are Secondary. That is why you should be tested a few times to confirm what you think is going on really is. Its a very simplfied version but hope you understand.

[powerlifterty16]

the doc didnt want to test again, and said we should start the hcg. i dont have the patience or the funds to do private testing. all i know is that my most current bw shows 5.2 as the lh..while at 21(2.5 yrs ago) my lh was 2.0 and fsh 2.9. my question is, doyou think with a 5.2 lh on a scale of 1.7-8.6 that hcg mono could help?
im also concerned it will screw up my own lh production but i guess if i keep the dose at 400 or below ill be alright.

also in shippens study did the 50 percent get permanent results in natural test increases?..or only results while they continued hcg?

Your hormones are in a constant state of motion blood can only capture small glimpse of whats going on at a given time. For example lets say your body senses your T is low LH is increased to send the signal to produce more T. If you took blood at that moment is will look like you are Secondary. That is why you should be tested a few times to confirm what you think is going on really is. Its a very simplfied version but hope you understand.

[100%]

He claims a increase in nearly 100% of men under 60. I would say you have a great shot regardless of you lh number. I have to say I would be concerned with a doctor not willing to run your blood a few times to verify whats going on at your age. If you simply didn't get enough sleep it will crash your numbers.

[powerlifterty16]

in his defense, i had come to him with prior bw, and symptoms..and he says he treats symptoms not numbers.
he also said trt at 23 was not a good idea, so wanted to try this first.

is he the best dr? no, but i think he is better than a lot of the ones that people have dealt with(myself included)...i mean how many drs prescribe hcg? lol

the last blood test i had i took it at 1pm and woke up around 10am so it was 3 hours after waking which could have lowered my values...however let's be real here, im 23, and 339 sucks especially since my ft was 10.1 on a scale of 9.3-26.4 lol.

He claims a increase in nearly 100% of men under 60. I would say you have a great shot regardless of you lh number. I have to say I would be concerned with a doctor not willing to run your blood a few times to verify whats going on at your age. If you simply didn't get enough sleep it will crash your numbers.