Today's mind job - 6/13/2013

[Times Roman]

There are some in the fringes of the scientific community that believe they have found evidence that the speed of light IS NOT CONSTANT, and that it has been slowing down over time.

has the speed of light been slowing down? - Yahoo! Search Results

Has Speed Of Light Slowed Down? - CBS News

The implications are enormous. If C can change, then what does that mean for FTL travel?

Or does this mean that the big bangers have it wrong?

and this could also mean we might have to say bye bye to E=MC2??

Thoughts anyone?

[JohnGalt]

ok I touched on this just a bit ago on yesterdays mind job.

In physics we are all familiar with the model they use to demonstrate the relativity effect that leads to what we refer to as gravity. You know the one ... they will describe it as a trampoline and mass has a downward effect on it and sinks causing the warp that leads to the pull of gravity. All of these models have a zero line where the measurement starts, but what I never "got" was where is the upward force counteracting the force of mass to warp spacetime? When we move away from our local mass (earth, moon, sun, milkyway) and venture to the void where the effects of mass/gravity why should we assume that spacetime would still ride along the zero line, if we imagine that mass causes the gravity well depicted as falling below the zero line why wouldn't the lack of mass cause an inverse gravity going above zero. This inverse well warps spacetime so therefore it effects the speed of time. Once time get's changed C is changed since it is a measure of distance over time.

One of the assumptions we always make is that we live in a stable universe. If we are falling deeper into our gravity here near earth, which is plausible considering the earth gains mass daily from space dust etc. looking at the theories of blackholes you know that the deeper we get into that well the slower time becomes and therefore the ways that we measure C could result in slower speeds that it did 10,20 50 years ago.

[AZGOLDSMEMBER86]

Yes it can slow , or appear slow as light or a object speeds or reaches speeds like light or faster than the speed of light .TIME slows as a result of this speed , so it may be that its traveling so fast that it appears slow.

Think of this if we could travel light years or even at the speed of light . Then traveled through space at those speeds lets say for a month or so. Time on earth would of just flew by, so when we returned it would be YEARS past.

[Times Roman]

ok I touched on this just a bit ago on yesterdays mind job.

In physics we are all familiar with the model they use to demonstrate the relativity effect that leads to what we refer to as gravity. You know the one ... they will describe it as a trampoline and mass has a downward effect on it and sinks causing the warp that leads to the pull of gravity. All of these models have a zero line where the measurement starts, but what I never "got" was where is the upward force counteracting the force of mass to warp spacetime? When we move away from our local mass (earth, moon, sun, milkyway) and venture to the void where the effects of mass/gravity why should we assume that spacetime would still ride along the zero line, if we imagine that mass causes the gravity well depicted as falling below the zero line why wouldn't the lack of mass cause an inverse gravity going above zero. This inverse well warps spacetime so therefore it effects the speed of time. Once time get's changed C is changed since it is a measure of distance over time.

One of the assumptions we always make is that we live in a stable universe. If we are falling deeper into our gravity here near earth, which is plausible considering the earth gains mass daily from space dust etc. looking at the theories of blackholes you know that the deeper we get into that well the slower time becomes and therefore the ways that we measure C could result in slower speeds that it did 10,20 50 years ago.

I think the underlying theory you have is correct, but you are overstating it's effects. True, the earth is getting more massive as time goes on due to space debris getting caught in our gravitational field and falling to earth. But the effects are so miniscule, essentially are unmeasurable.

I think you have one of the basic tenants of C a little confused. Light will travel 186,282 miles in one second, regardless the POV of the observer. If the observer is traveling near the speed of light, and time is beginning to slow down, still, in one of his seconds, light will still only travel 186,282 miles. It's a little confusing, to be sure, as it seems to defy common sense. This is the standard convention.

[Zodiac82]

ill jump in on somethin more my speed(no pun) lol

-Release the Kracken!!!-

[Times Roman]

Yes it can slow , or appear slow as light or a object speeds or reaches speeds like light or faster than the speed of light .TIME slows as a result of this speed , so it may be that its traveling so fast that it appears slow.

Think of this if we could travel light years or even at the speed of light . Then traveled through space at those speeds lets say for a month or so. Time on earth would of just flew by, so when we returned it would be YEARS past.

You just described the TWIN PARADOX.

Congrats!

[JohnGalt]

did I mention I hate "standard conventions"? lol

I know there are a bunch of flaws in my theory, it's just something I thought of about 10 years ago after watching something on TV trying to secribe how gravity works. I always remembered my physics class and the use of gravity wells to demonstrate gravity and spacetime. Since then when I can't sleep at night I try to work out my personal problems on the stndard concepts to find that one piece that to me just feels wrong ... mainly the theory that the universe is expanding simply because all far away objects are red-shifted ... It just feels wrong to me to think that not a single far away object would be moving towards us and blue-shifted .... yes I know the expansion theory as demonstrated with the example of an expanding balloon can explain it that just feels to simple to me.

I wish I had the math knowledge to explore it deeper but such is life. My idea really only works for the really really far away since the effects are so very minuscule it only works if the effect is compounded over vast distances.

[Times Roman]

did I mention I hate "standard conventions"? lol

I know there are a bunch of flaws in my theory, it's just something I thought of about 10 years ago after watching something on TV trying to secribe how gravity works. I always remembered my physics class and the use of gravity wells to demonstrate gravity and spacetime. Since then when I can't sleep at night I try to work out my personal problems on the stndard concepts to find that one piece that to me just feels wrong ... mainly the theory that the universe is expanding simply because all far away objects are red-shifted ... It just feels wrong to me to think that not a single far away object would be moving towards us and blue-shifted .... yes I know the expansion theory as demonstrated with the example of an expanding balloon can explain it that just feels to simple to me.

I wish I had the math knowledge to explore it deeper but such is life. My idea really only works for the really really far away since the effects are so very minuscule it only works if the effect is compounded over vast distances.

the trampoline analogy is flawed, as it is a 2 dimensional illustration of a 3 dimensional occurrence. But it gives us enough information to get a taste of what is really going on.

I have a similar mantra when can't sleep. In that I try to conceptualize the opposite of a black hole and how such an object would behave and appear. Not necessarily a white hole, but an anti gravity force that repels just as strongly as a black hole attracts.

You don't need a degree in physics to grasp in lay terms what these theories. You just have to be interested and do a lot of reading. At some point, you will begin to read books that start out with physics and somewhere along the way, metaphysics starts creeping in and the two blend. Very interesting if you ask me....

[AZGOLDSMEMBER86]

There are some in the fringes of the scientific community that believe they have found evidence that the speed of light IS NOT CONSTANT, and that it has been slowing down over time.

has the speed of light been slowing down? - Yahoo! Search Results

Has Speed Of Light Slowed Down? - CBS News

The implications are enormous. If C can change, then what does that mean for FTL travel?

Or does this mean that the big bangers have it wrong?

and this could also mean we might have to say bye bye to E=MC2??

Thoughts anyone?

And no light can only be as consistent as its source of energy .

Batteries die attention some point right ?

[basketballfan22]

****ing Times and his threads! I am very thankful that you posted this because I never heard about this. I need to read about this and perhaps even discuss this with my brother before I comment or ask questions; otherwise I run the risk of sounding like a moron, lol.

[Times Roman]

And no light can only be as consistent as its source of energy .

Batteries die attention some point right ?

no

weaker batteries in the flashlight does not mean slower light coming out the other end! =)

[JohnGalt]

the trampoline analogy is flawed, as it is a 2 dimensional illustration of a 3 dimensional occurrence. But it gives us enough information to get a taste of what is really going on.

I have a similar mantra when can't sleep. In that I try to conceptualize the opposite of a black hole and how such an object would behave and appear. Not necessarily a white hole, but an anti gravity force that repels just as strongly as a black hole attracts.

You don't need a degree in physics to grasp in lay terms what these theories. You just have to be interested and do a lot of reading. At some point, you will begin to read books that start out with physics and somewhere along the way, metaphysics starts creeping in and the two blend. Very interesting if you ask me....

Yes the trampoline is flawed, but that was what triggered my questioning. The anti-gravity force is pretty much exactly where I'm stuck and helps me not to sleep for the last year or so. I keep imagining that in the void between distant objects these forces and fields exist and ponder their effects on time thereby changing our perspective of distant objects with how they may effect C. Just knowing that the concept of time is something the human brain created in order to make sense of the world and that time is relative and doesn't truly exist, I have a problem with there being a universal speed limit since the unit of measurement has a made up element.

[basketballfan22]

From what I am reading so far, it sounds similar to how OPERA recorded the neutrinos that were traveling faster than the speed of light which was later shown to be due to faulty equipment. I am not so confident about this, but the possibility is interesting.

[Times Roman]

Yes the trampoline is flawed, but that was what triggered my questioning. The anti-gravity force is pretty much exactly where I'm stuck and helps me not to sleep for the last year or so. I keep imagining that in the void between distant objects these forces and fields exist and ponder their effects on time thereby changing our perspective of distant objects with how they may effect C. Just knowing that the concept of time is something the human brain created in order to make sense of the world and that time is relative and doesn't truly exist, I have a problem with there being a universal speed limit since the unit of measurement has a made up element.

first, there is no known anti gravity force except in the minds of theorists. Some postulate that dark matter has a repulsive effect on non dark matter to help explain the clumps and bumps in the universe today.

So you are suggesting there is some kind of time dilation effect between observers that have vast tracts of "voids" between them? There is gravity everywhere, between a star and it's planets, between a star and it's local cluster, between a local cluster and it's galaxy and it's local cluster of galaxies. It is literally everywhere, so even in the voids, there is gravity. You cannot escape it. So I am not sure on what theoretical grounds you are basing this comment?

Although "time" is a construct of the human mind, "Space/time" is a very real thing, and is almost "tangible" in some cases. Near an event horizon surrounding a black hole, it would be very noticeable, and as you fall ever closer towards the singularity, any activity further away from the singularity than you would appear to slow down and freeze in time.

[Times Roman]

From what I am reading so far, it sounds similar to how OPERA recorded the neutrinos that were traveling faster than the speed of light which was later shown to be due to faulty equipment. I am not so confident about this, but the possibility is interesting.

it is theorized that "tachyons" travel FTL, NOT neutrinos

yes, we are searching for neutrinos.

we are not searching for tachyons. we really aren't sure how to go about it yet.

[basketballfan22]

it is theorized that "tachyons" travel FTL, NOT neutrinos

yes, we are searching for neutrinos.

we are not searching for tachyons. we really aren't sure how to go about it yet.

No man, you don't remember the big stink in 2011 when they thought neutrinos (they have been detected, just not directly) traveled faster than light (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-...rino_anomaly)?

I am fairly sure that tachyons don't exist. There really isn't any evidence (even weak) of their existence.

[Times Roman]

No man, you don't remember the big stink in 2011 when they thought neutrinos (they have been detected, just not directly) traveled faster than light (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-...rino_anomaly)?

I am fairly sure that tachyons don't exist. There really isn't any evidence (even weak) of their existence.

Ok, and yes, I remember now. it was a big stink. there was an initial test, and it was later confirmed by a very reputable (damn, I can't remember) (some institution in the scientific community).

The reason I wasn't thinking this, is that the ultimate speed of the neutrino was a very very slight increase in the speed of C. No, I don't remember anyone saying it was equipment failure. Which is why the second institution validated it with some very expensive equipment under a pristine controlled environment. it would seem to me that there is still an upward limit on the speed of a neutrino. However, there is no such upward limit, in theory, of a tachyon. The limit on a tachyon is that it cannot travel slower than C.

[basketballfan22]

It was unable to be replicated by other reputable sources; therefore it was anything but confirmed. OPERA tried replicating their results, and they eventually discovered the error in their machines.

[Times Roman]

It was unable to be replicated by other reputable sources; therefore it was anything but confirmed. OPERA tried replicating their results, and they eventually discovered the error in their machines.

OK. I was in Afghanistan when the error was announced. I must have been reading a book or something. Most of our news came from Al Jazeera and the BBC. Didn't get the BBC very often though, and no newspapers. we did have very limited bandwidth for the internet.

...or I could have just forgotten.

I'm still a firm believer that our understanding of long term light speed could be flawed.

[JohnGalt]

correct the presence of dark force or anti-gravity force is on in theory.

the basic building block that started a lot of my theory, which I know is false I just haven't proven it to myself yet lol, can be based of your extreme example of a near infinite mass object (black hole). I know that it widely known and believed that mass and gravity permeate the entire universe, but I think of object you mentioned you ponder of extreme in the other spectrum. an object or point in space with an near infinitely small area of mass where the forces that counter gravity and prevent a small object/mass like earth from being itself a blackhole starts to conquer gravity and creates what I'll call a whitehole just to put a name to it.

if there were such objects in line of sight to a distant object then yes I ponder how time dilation could be effected and would it cause us to see a difference in the light of that object as far light-shifting properties. I have no real science or basis for this theory, it's just something that I have not been able to shake from my mind for a few years.

[basketballfan22]

OK. I was in Afghanistan when the error was announced. I must have been reading a book or something. Most of our news came from Al Jazeera and the BBC. Didn't get the BBC very often though, and no newspapers. we did have very limited bandwidth for the internet.

...or I could have just forgotten.

I'm still a firm believer that our understanding of long term light speed could be flawed.

LMAO! Al Jazeera is at the forefront of scientific discovery! What are you talking about?!?

[Times Roman]

LMAO! Al Jazeera is at the forefront of scientific discovery! What are you talking about?!?

Insha'Allah

[Times Roman]

correct the presence of dark force or anti-gravity force is on in theory.

the basic building block that started a lot of my theory, which I know is false I just haven't proven it to myself yet lol, can be based of your extreme example of a near infinite mass object (black hole). I know that it widely known and believed that mass and gravity permeate the entire universe, but I think of object you mentioned you ponder of extreme in the other spectrum. an object or point in space with an near infinitely small area of mass where the forces that counter gravity and prevent a small object/mass like earth from being itself a blackhole starts to conquer gravity and creates what I'll call a whitehole just to put a name to it.

if there were such objects in line of sight to a distant object then yes I ponder how time dilation could be effected and would it cause us to see a difference in the light of that object as far light-shifting properties. I have no real science or basis for this theory, it's just something that I have not been able to shake from my mind for a few years.

there are four (4) known forces:

1) electromagnetic
2) gravity
3) weak nuclear force
4) strong nuclear force

I suspect there are more, and after the 4th, would be a force that correlates to quarks, and themselves not imploding, unless you subscribe to the string theory.

But I digress.

The forces you describe that prevent the earth from collapsing itself and becoming a black hole (assuming it was massive enough, which it is not), would be #3 and #4