Many Questions, Tren? PCT?

[Poboy67]

Age: 30
Height: 6'0
Weight: 185lbs
BF??? 15%

I guess I'll start with my goal here. I've been out out of the gym for about 6 months now and just recently started back on the healthy track. I really am looking for a bounce back in strength once I get back into a good groove.

I've been working out since high school with many breaks throughout the years. I've done 5 cycles the first dating back about 5 or 6 years ago. Previous cycles have been basic to say the least. All consisted of 500-600mg test a week, one of those times stacked whinny at the end, lasted 10wks. I did do an 8wk sustanon cycle once and dont even remember the dosage.

I know I'm about to hear it, but go ahead and dish it, because I want to do this right. Below is what I have on hand and would like to know if I should bump it all together or just add some AI's and better PCT? I also would like to know the best dosage plan for aas and pct.

Thanks! Oh yeah, I don't plan on starting a cycle till January when I'm back in good shape, so I have time to make whatever changes I need to make.

3x10ml 76mg Tren A
3x10ml 200mg Test Cyp
Nolva

400mg test/wk
76mg tren EOD

[Java Man]

You're 30 so I'm not going to lecture you.

- Get some Cabergoline (Dostinex®) for Progesterone control (Tren is a 19nor derivative - doesn't aromatize but ++progeterone)
- 400mg test may aromatize. It wouldn't in me but I have done 1.5 grams/wk + without aromatizing so I'm somewhat of a freak I think in this. You have nolva but you may want some Exemestane on hand in case it does.
- You'll want to run HCG 250iu twice/wk while on cycle - start the day you pin (or the day before if you want to offset the pins) and continue right up to 3 days before you start PCT. It will keep your axis from shutting down IE you'll still produce testosterone naturally throughout your cycle. Makes PCT much easier and you'll stay horny.
- Get some Clomid. Enough to take 50mg/day for week 1 of PCT in addition to Nolvadex, then 25mg/day weeks 2-3 (or 4). Continue nolva through week 5 or 6 of PCT.

Assuming you will be doing the standard 12-14 week test cycle. you didn't specify length of time. unless I missed it?

GL. More on all of the above in the sticky threads at the top of the forum for PCT.

[Java Man]

Oh yeah and get at the very least a CBC and lipid profile done before you start, about 6 weeks in, and again 6-8 weeks after PCT ends. Tren trashed my lipids after just 5 weeks on it at 300mg - 400mg/wk (don't remember exact dose, but it wasn't very high by some standards).

Take 2 grams of niacin daily (once daily, only once) with vitamin C and 3 grams twice a day quality fish oil. This will help protect your lipid profile. I do this all the time, cycling or not now. I found out about Niacin here on this forum. there's a post by Kelkel I think that has some links to studies in it that shed some light on what it does for you.

[AnabolicDoc]

Most ppl cannot tolerate that much niacin. 2 grams is a very high daily dose. It's also recommended that you start at 250mg to 500mg per day of time released/extended release/slow release (all the same) - personally I got severe muscle cramps at 250mg ed and had to take 250mg eod for a month before I increased to 250 ed. Several months later (at least 3 months) I just started 750mg ed. From your starting dose you increase by 250 to 500mg every 2 to 4 weeks until you can't tolerate any more (due to sides) or your blood work shows that you dont need any more or you reach 2gm per day. The maximum daily dose is 2gm for niacin ER and 3gm for the instant release, which needs to be divided into multiple daily doses.

Also, just FYI, cabergoline and prami are for prolactin control (not progesterone), although 19-nors stimulate prolactin via their progesterone-like effects.

[Java Man]

True, I didn't mention that I started at 6oomg then upped it to 1g, then went to 1.5 then 2g just recently. I don't plan on going higher. My LDL and Triglycerides are half what they were 6 months ago. HDL is up too. I get BW every 6 weeks lately because I'm experimenting with different supplements and dosages. The only major change I made between the last one and the one prior was niacin. If my next panel doesn't show a huge change I'll probably lower it back to 1g.

I read a study that found high doses of niacin more than once per day can damage the liver, but taken once daily that was not an issue. It had a group on Niacin, a group on a statin, and a placebo group. The Nicain group did as well as the statin group. I'm no doctor and certainly not an expert on statin drugs but I know more than most avg joe's.

I take the 2g in the morning with the rest of my morning pills. I get a 15 min. flush but no other side effects. I actually like the flush I'm sure I also saw a study that said niacin had zero effect on lipids and can damage your heart. The only thing I can really base my opinion on is my own experience. Everyone says something different about everything and for every study that shows something is beneficial, I'm sure to find another that shows it's harmful. How do we know what to believe??

[Java Man]

Most ppl cannot tolerate that much niacin. 2 grams is a very high daily dose. It's also recommended that you start at 250mg to 500mg per day of time released/extended release/slow release (all the same) - personally I got severe muscle cramps at 250mg ed and had to take 250mg eod for a month before I increased to 250 ed. Several months later (at least 3 months) I just started 750mg ed. From your starting dose you increase by 250 to 500mg every 2 to 4 weeks until you can't tolerate any more (due to sides) or your blood work shows that you dont need any more or you reach 2gm per day. The maximum daily dose is 2gm for niacin ER and 3gm for the instant release, which needs to be divided into multiple daily doses.

Also, just FYI, cabergoline and prami are for prolactin control (not progesterone), although 19-nors stimulate prolactin via their progesterone-like effects.

Actually I said "++progeterone". I have no clue what that is

[AnabolicDoc]

...I'm sure I also saw a study that said niacin had zero effect on lipids and can damage your heart. The only thing I can really base my opinion on is my own experience. Everyone says something different about everything and for every study that shows something is beneficial, I'm sure to find another that shows it's harmful. How do we know what to believe??

I think the study you're referring to is a very high profile study that compared statins vs statins combined with a combo niacin and laropiprant pill. Laropiprant was added to make niacin more tolerable, especially in regards to flushing. The study showed that the group taking a statin with niacin/laropiprant did no better, and actually in some areas did worse than the statin monotherapy group, particularly in regards to cardiovascular outcomes. This occurred despite improved lipid profiles in the statin + niacin/laropiprant group. The problem with this study, and drawing certain conclusions from it, is that laropiprant is known to have its own adverse cardiovascular profile that possibly, or likely, skewed the results. I could only assume that these cardiovascular adverse effects associated with laropiprant were unknown at the time the study was developed and initiated.

The reason this study was so publicized is bc it's been well known that when niacin is added to a statin there will be an improved lipid profile, particularly in elevating HDL levels, however it has never been proven that this addition of niacin offers any reduction in disease or death (morbidity or mortality). This is not to say that niacin alone is not a good option. Niacin alone is great but if already on a statin, then adding niacin may be of questionable or unknown benefit despite demonstrable improvements in one's lipid profile. It is still recommended that if someone requiring statin therapy demonstrates a need for the lipid improving effects of niacin that niacin be added to their regimen, it's just not something that can be said to be beneficial for everyone.

[AnabolicDoc]

Actually I said "++progeterone". I have no clue what that is

^Lol

[Poboy67]

Good info, thanks! It was late last night and I forgot to put how long. I was planning on running the Test for 12wks and then by wk 4 starting the Tren for 8wks. I've been trying to get my hands on hcg but no luck yet.

[Poboy67]

Thanks for the heads up!

[marcus300]

No need for tren and no need to cycle until your well over 200lbs.

Get back in the gym and build some muscle tissue on your frame your very light for your height, eat and train hard forget steroids until you gained a lot more weight/size

[Poboy67]

No need for tren and no need to cycle until your well over 200lbs.

Get back in the gym and build some muscle tissue on your frame your very light for your height, eat and train hard forget steroids until you gained a lot more weight/size

Wish it was that easy. I usually weigh about 165lbs. The most I've ever weighed is 190lbs and that was after 10wks of test cyp.

[marcus300]

Wish it was that easy. I usually weigh about 165lbs. The most I've ever weighed is 190lbs and that was after 10wks of test cyp.

You need to learn how to eat to gain mass and size otherwise going on steroids will do nothing and you will lose all the gains afterwards because you diet cant support any new tissue. I would also learn how to train correctly and stimulate serious growth and then feed the growth.. Steroids are not your answer learn how to eat and train correctly.

[Poboy67]

You need to learn how to eat to gain mass and size otherwise going on steroids will do nothing and you will lose all the gains afterwards because you diet cant support any new tissue. I would also learn how to train correctly and stimulate serious growth and then feed the growth.. Steroids are not your answer learn how to eat and train correctly.

I'm no bodybuilder or pro at the gym for that matter, but I do have some experience and I do eat well. Not everyone has the build and genetics to put on pounds like crazy all natural; however, I don't plan on starting my cycle until I do somewhat plateau. I'm going to be working really hard until the end of the year and depending on my progress, I hope to start in January.