estrogen level question

[PJS19]

Are healthy e2 levels very dependent on the individual or is it similar for most?

I know 20-30 seems to be the target range. I ask because my e2 is currently sitting at 7.

Took a product with epistane in it 6 months ago for 10 days. Does epistane have permanent e2 effects? It did fix my sensitive nipple issue within a few days of use.

3 months post use, my e2 was at 6, despite total T at 640. Current total T is 520, but e2 is only at 6. Is this just my body's general level or is something not right here?

I took clomid 2 months ago which shot my T up to 1500, and e2 to 76 (but not sure how accurate that is since I was taking clomid.)

Thanks for any feedback on the issue.

[austinite]

I like mine center between half and max the range. Should be ideal for most.

[Cuz]

Are healthy e2 levels very dependent on the individual or is it similar for most?

I know 20-30 seems to be the target range. I ask because my e2 is currently sitting at 7.

Took a product with epistane in it 6 months ago for 10 days. Does epistane have permanent e2 effects? It did fix my sensitive nipple issue within a few days of use.

3 months post use, my e2 was at 6, despite total T at 640. Current total T is 520, but e2 is only at 6. Is this just my body's general level or is something not right here?

I took clomid 2 months ago which shot my T up to 1500, and e2 to 76 (but not sure how accurate that is since I was taking clomid.)

Thanks for any feedback on the issue.

Seems a little low to me but I guess if you aren't have any sides to it then id let it go.

[PJS19]

Well the thing is I am having tons of sides since that time. Depression and low libido fatigue are the main three. Thats why Im wondering if part of my problem is low e2 rather than just T problems.

[austinite]

Well the thing is I am having tons of sides since that time. Depression and low libido fatigue are the main three. Thats why Im wondering if part of my problem is low e2 rather than just T problems.

Yes, low e2 can cause this.

[PJS19]

Figured. Any idea why despite stopping after 10 days, and being off it for 6 months, my e2 still is low? Will that bounce back or does epistane have some sort of permanent blocking mechanism? I will add, no joint pain, which seems to be a common symptom for most.

[austinite]

Figured. Any idea why despite stopping after 10 days, and being off it for 6 months, my e2 still is low? Will that bounce back or does epistane have some sort of permanent blocking mechanism? I will add, no joint pain, which seems to be a common symptom for most.

Symptoms are general symptoms. Not everyone will experience all symptoms.

If it's been 6 months, probably not going up much.

[PJS19]

Interesting. So what do you suggest I do? Screwed for life and will have to live this way?

[kelkel]

Was your test an E2 sensitive assay? If not, the number does not mean much.
Is your body fat extremely low out of curiosity?

[PJS19]

It was sensitive test , yes. And my body fat isnt that low. Id guess probably 12 right now. Ive been as low as 8%. But that was last year before all this.

[PJS19]

Anyone have any insight on what could be going on and how to fix it?

[kelkel]

Some people tend to run low but a higher level is definitely healthier for you. Your numbers do seem abnormally low and it makes me curious about possible skewed lab results, but who knows. If you feel ok ride it out another month and re-test your E2 and see if it's coming up a bit. Supplementing with DHEA micronized (25 - 50 mg) can raise E2 levels slightly in some people but I'd suggest knowing your level prior to trying this. By chance do you know your DHT level?

[PJS19]

Thanks for the reply Kelkel. DHT level is 27 on a scale of 16-79.

I would think it was maybe a skewed lab result, but before taking clomid when my T was 600, e2 tested at 6. So hard to believe there were 2 skewed tests.

The problem is I dont feel ok, and havent for 6 months since that 10 day trial taking a product with epistane. (arime stage 5 pct).

I read somewhere that a symptom of low e2 is "emotional blunting". Is that true? Because that is my core symptom that I've been trying to fix for 6 months.

Is there a chance that the epistane is still binding up e2 or doing something with it?

Arime STAGE PCT 5

Theres the product I used.

[PJS19]

anyone?

[kelkel]

Can you post up your lab work so we can review for better insight?

[PJS19]

Yes, thank you. I will post 2 sets.

I dont have full blood work from directly after prohormone use (Late april 2013) because I wasnt with my specialist yet, but I know Total T was 320 and LH/FSH were both 1. No other tests.

set 1. 6/7/13. 2 months after my 10 day stint with the pro hormone. No PCT. (besides some tribulus if that counts)

glucose 91 65-99
total cholesterol 155 125-200
LDL cholesterol 76 <130
Triglycerides 67 <150
HDL cholesterol 66 >40

Vitamin D 35 30-100
TSH 2.57 .40-4.50
T4 Free 1.4 .8-1.8
T3 Free 3.0 2.3-4.2

Total testosterone 640 250-1100
Free Testosterone 86.2 46-224
Bioavaliable Test. 188.6 110-575
SHBG 34 10-50
Albumin 4.8 3.6-5.1

Estrone <10 <68
DHT 31 16-79
Pregnenolone 44 13-208
DHEA sulfate 457 110-510

LH 2 1.5-9.3
Prolactin 11 2-18
Estradiol ultrasenstive 6 <29 (low?)

All blood counts were in range

I was prescribed Clomid, to bump up LH. It worked and T shot up to 1500, but here are the blood results 9 weeks post clomid. 9/18/13

Fractionated estrogens

Estrone 16 <68
Estradiol 7 <29 (low?)
Estriol <0.10 <0.18

Total Testosterone 520 250-1100
Free Testosterone 59.6 46-224
Bioavaliable Test 125.1 110-575
SHBG 40 10-50
Albumin 4.6 3.6-5.1
Progesterone 0.1 <0.3
DHT 27 16-79
Pregnenolone 23 13-208
DHEA sulfate 392 110-510

FSH 1.1 1.6-8.0
LH 1.7 1.5-9.3 Both lower than before clomid!

Symptoms have been the same, although my libido is lower than before clomid now.

The DEPRESSION is the only symptom I care about. I can live with low libido/low energy, but I cant live with the numbness/emotionlessness. That symptom has been the same Since about day 7 of the prohormone use. Any insight would be great. Thanks alot!

[PJS19]

Kelkel , anything stand out to you, or an explanation on what is happening?

[kelkel]

A lot of info to digest. E follows T, and DHT does as well. Meaning at T goes up so does E and DHT. Test turns to DHT everywhere in the body (except muscle) and it also aromatizes to E via the 5-AR enzyme that lives in the skin. If you're very lean you just may not turn much into estrogen.

So, the SERM was effective for you and bumped up your T effectively. Once stopped production waned. So, what is causing it to not maintain function. It makes me curious if something is amiss such as a pathology, etc? Not trying to scare you just trying to think of everything. It's also always good to rule these things in or out to help determine a course of action.

I would consider talking to your doc about a Pituitary MRI based on your LH/FSH levels. Either that attempt another restart and if not successful, MRI. In the meantime, load up on Vit D as that level is poor!

[PJS19]

Thanks for the reply. I have been thinking about getting an MRI, but my endo saw my latest results and thought they were good. I have an appt with my specialist this week so I will ask him. Also, the fact that such a short and small usage of prohormone could shut me down so hard so fast might mean I was already low to begin with? And I have been taking a Vitamin D supp and my level on a different test was 55, so that is better.

What order do you suggest I go in? Would you say.. 1.MRI to rule out tumor or obstruction. 2.If negative, another PCT, but using what? Clomid and Nolva?. 3.If that doesnt work, TRT?

What do you mean when you say refer to "pathology"?

Thanks alot for your help! I appreciate the time

[PJS19]

Also,

Androst 3,5-dien-7, 17-dione is the chemical that is a "suicide inhibitor" in the product I took. I thought after a few weeks the body makes new enzymes once stopping a product.

Is there a chance low E2 is causing my problems? And is there a chance Im not aromatizing, which would mean Im screwed?

[kelkel]

Low E2 is not causing the problem. It's a by-product of it.
By pathology I mean pituitary tumor or micro / macro adenoma. They can cause many issues with pituitary function. (I have one)
It surprises me that a pro-hormone would cause such lingering issues as well.
Order? I'd get the MRI if he'll order it. He should to rule things in or out.
Up your D a bit more too.

[PJS19]

Ok I will do that and let you know how it goes. I want to completely rule out fixable issues of low T before I jump on any sort of TRT. I also want to try another restart first too. Ill keep taking the Vit D supp. 5,000 IU. Does your tumor/adenoma cause low T for you? Im only 23, so I just want to make sure there is nothing else I can do before I start TRT.

thanks alot for your help.

[kelkel]

Double your dosage of D. Remember it's fat soluble so take it with a meal.
Yes, my adenoma shut me down to a 59 T level and dropping.
At your age, do everything humanly possible to avoid it. You don't want it unless absolutely necessary.

Update this thread when you learn something please.

[crazy mike]

A lot to digest to say the least Kel. Thanks ...cm

[PJS19]

Appt tomorrow to go over bloodwork . I will update. But it is important to note, and I havent yet, that prior to the prohormone use I had a really sensitive nipple. And 3 days in, the sensitivty dissappeared. So I know something regarding e2 was affected. Maybe it was high and now its very low. Ill inquire tomorrow, just thought that was important info

[PJS19]

Had 2 appointments today. One with specialist that Ive been seeing, and one with my primary. My primary refused to order and MRI, I think he was mad that I asked for it. He said "thats not how it works, the patients dont order there own tests." And he refused to order one. He said since my endocrinologist didnt suggest it, its not needed. The endo said he would have a problem with such low lh/fsh if T wasnt 520. But since it is, he said hes ok with it. So thats that I guess.

My specialist had this to say about the e2 at 7. He said he likes his patients between 10-20 (although I know most on here say 20-30). And he said it isnt the most accurate test. He said 7 is more ballpark, and it could be in the teens. Our plan is to give things more time, then see where levels are at in 6 months. He said lh/fsh could be low due to the depression/stress as well, and because of an apparent gluten intolerance I have. Which I just recently found out.

I dont have a huge problem with my total T being 520, but I do have a problem with the Free T being only 59. That seems to match up more with someone with total T in the 300s. Im going to give it more time, stay healthy, and if my next blood labs dont show improvements I am going to try my own restart with clomid/nolva.

Really frusterated, I wonder if I could have avoided all of this complete and utter misery Im going through by not taking 10 days of a stupid little prohormone. Damn. Im sure theres more to it than that, but still hard not to regret the shit out of that mistake.

Thanks for everyones help on this.