Awful lab results after PCT on a "simple" cycle.

[agalloch]

I ran the following cycle that ended Dec 1st, 2013:

Weeks 1-8 - 150 mg test prop EOD
Weeks 8-12 - 100 mg tren ace/100 mg test prop EOD

Ran Nolvadex 40/40/20/20. Like an idiot, I pinned 100 mg of test prop a week after (around early January), felt stupid for doing it so did 40 mg of Nolva the next day. A week later, I pinned two days in a row of 100 mg tren ace/50 mg test prop. Then the last week I was off (I wanted to start the cycle early like an idiot).

Here are my results (I'm 26, male):

Testosterone, Serum - 248 (Range 348-1197) LOW
Lymphs - 52 (Range 14-46%) HIGH
Neutrophils - 37 (Range 40-74%) LOW
RDE - 17.2 (Range 12.3-15.4%) HIGH

I don't know what this means - should I run Nolva more, or just B&C? I doubt that simple of a cycle put me on TRT...and oddly, my strength is pretty much fine, I feel fine, no erection issues, etc...

[Bio-Active]

I am not really sure what you are asking or expecting? How long have you been off everything and what are you trying to do?

[kelkel]

He just finished pct and decided to inject again several times without fully recovering. Doesn't appear hcg involved either.

Do another pct and don't F it up. That was just dumb.

[Bio-Active]

He just finished pct and decided to inject again several times without fully recovering. Doesn't appear hcg involved either. Do another pct and don't F it up. That was just dumb.

thats my point is he trying to pct or not? If so do as kel says. Not really sure what you are expecting with the labs or why they were run

[agalloch]

I've been off a cycle for 2 months, ran PCT for one month, then in the past month like an idiot I injected 3x but did nothing else during that time. I was expecting test levels to be within range. I don't know if I want to B&C at 26 years old, and risk fertility issues, or if I should recover fully (I just put in an order for Clomid, will be here in 2 days).

thats my point is he trying to pct or not? If so do as kel says. Not really sure what you are expecting with the labs or why they were run

Well, what are my options? Another 4 weeks of PCT and stay off? I DOUBT three injections in the last month did anything noteworthy. Hell, I still have erections no issue, strength is definitely still there (not like ti was on cycle, tho), and am generally feeling pretty good despite low test. I'd LOVE to B&C and then recover in the fall but not sure if that's wise.

[Bio-Active]

I've been off a cycle for 2 months, ran PCT for one month, then in the past month like an idiot I injected 3x but did nothing else during that time. I was expecting test levels to be within range. I don't know if I want to B&C at 26 years old, and risk fertility issues, or if I should recover fully (I just put in an order for Clomid, will be here in 2 days). Well, what are my options? Another 4 weeks of PCT and stay off? I DOUBT three injections in the last month did anything noteworthy. Hell, I still have erections no issue, strength is definitely still there (not like ti was on cycle, tho), and am generally feeling pretty good despite low test. I'd LOVE to B&C and then recover in the fall but not sure if that's wise.

do another pct and wait 4-6 weeks after to run labs. You haven't been off long enough to get an accurate reading

[agalloch]

do another pct and wait 4-6 weeks after to run labs. You haven't been off long enough to get an accurate reading

Can I cut during this time (I'm at 20% BF) safely without losing muscle? And, what are your thoughts on just cruising at TRT levels, blasting, then cruise, then recover?

[Bio-Active]

Can I cut during this time (I'm at 20% BF) safely without losing muscle? And, what are your thoughts on just cruising at TRT levels, blasting, then cruise, then recover?

cruising is just risking ending up on trt for life. It sounds like you want to recover so that's a bad idea. Hit the nutrition forum and have them help you taylor a meal plan to fit your goals. I the guys in there are experts at nutrition

[kelkel]

At 20% you probably should not be on gear anyway. It increases the risk of sides unnecessarily. B & C? Why? What are your goals? Do you have a competition coming up or make a living from this somehow? If not, consider your health first.

[king6 II]

Can I cut during this time (I'm at 20% BF) safely without losing muscle? And, what are your thoughts on just cruising at TRT levels, blasting, then cruise, then recover?

Cruising is not for the novice. If you stay shut down that long you run the risk of being shut down for good.

[agalloch]

cruising is just risking ending up on trt for life. It sounds like you want to recover so that's a bad idea. Hit the nutrition forum and gave them help you taylor a meal plan to fit your goals. I the guys in there are experts at nutrition

Alright, will do. So two questions - why is my strength pretty damn good right now even with low test, no real erection issues? And, if I cut right now (not fully recovered), is that okay given the BF%?

At 20% you probably should not be on gear anyway. It increases the risk of sides unnecessarily. B & C? Why? What are your goals? Do you have a competition coming up or make a living from this somehow? If not, consider your health first.

Nothing, I just want amazing aesthetics, and want to recomp with tren. I want to look the best at the pool

[kelkel]

Nothing, I just want amazing aesthetics, and want to recomp with tren. I want to look the best at the pool

Aesthetics don't come from a bottle. Don't risk your health for the pool brother! Go easy.

[agalloch]

Aesthetics don't come from a bottle. Don't risk your health for the pool brother! Go easy.

Hmm. Last question - even though I'm in a recovery period, is cutting now okay long as I conntinue to lif theavy?

[Bio-Active]

I can't emphasize enough getting some direction from the nutrition forum bro. That's your best bet

[agalloch]

I can't emphasize enough getting some direction from the nutrition forum bro. That's your best bet

Thanks. Good thing is that even if test is still low, I still look as "large" / strong / strength is almost where it was on cycle (very close to it). So, yeah....I'll just need to quit making excuses about cutting, and just ****ing do it.

[Bio-Active]

Good luck

[agalloch]

Thanks. Cna you quickly explain why, despite low T right now, my strength isn't atrocious (it's basically on point)? And why I get erections, haven't really lost my mass from cycle, etc?

[Bio-Active]

Thanks. Cna you quickly explain why, despite low T right now, my strength isn't atrocious (it's basically on point)? And why I get erections, haven't really lost my mass from cycle, etc?

During pct many people can still put on muscle if your training and nutrition are on par. Testosterone levels are low but not bottomed out so this is not uncommon.

[agalloch]

During pct many people can still put on muscle if your training and nutrition are on par. Testosterone levels are low but not bottomed out so this is not uncommon.

I'm telling ya, this shit makes me want to blast, blast, blast test all year. Loved it. LOVED the feeling of it. Zero sides, all positives, and then TRT dose for cruise. If it weren't for fertility issues, gah, all day.

[Bio-Active]

I'm telling ya, this shit makes me want to blast, blast, blast test all year. Loved it. LOVED the feeling of it. Zero sides, all positives, and then TRT dose for cruise. If it weren't for fertility issues, gah, all day.

the temptation to stay on is tough but the right thing to do for your health is to come of and let your body recover

[agalloch]

the temptation to stay on is tough but the right thing to do for your health is to come of and let your body recover

So how do people like Lazar Angelov and other models of fitness do it without healh issues? I mean, if they can, why can't I?

[Bio-Active]

So how do people like Lazar Angelov and other models of fitness do it without healh issues? I mean, if they can, why can't I?

we really don't know if they have health issues or not

[agalloch]

we really don't know if they have health issues or not

Is that you in your avatar? Pretty much exactly how I want myself to look.

[Bio-Active]

Is that you in your avatar? Pretty much exactly how I want myself to look.

yes that's me in the avatar

[agalloch]

yes that's me in the avatar

Ideal physique, nice work. Seriously makes me want to blast tren for 2 months and then cruise through the Summer and then do a recovery. But I think long as I'm strict with my diet, strict with cardio, and strict with lifting for 3 months, I can get similar results (not that good tho).

[Bio-Active]

You can achieve everything you desire with nutrition. It's the one component to many people take for granted. My nutrition is super strict and every single item I eat is weight to the exact amount of macros that I need. I eat every 3 hrs from the minute I get up in the am until I go to bed and sometimes I set am an alarm clock to wake me up at night to eat

[agalloch]

You can achieve everything you desire with nutrition. It's the one component to many people take for granted. My nutrition is super strict and every single item I eat is weight to the exact amount of macros that I need. I eat every 3 hrs from the minute I get up in the am until I go to bed and sometimes I set am an alarm clock to wake me up at night to eat

Except the every three hours thing is a myth, and it's about total calorie consumptions mostly that matters, not timing (except pre-post workout). Surprised you mentioned this. I mean, if you can provide your cut plan I'd love to see it. To be honest, I eat the calories I need, but binge on the weekends too often, and never touch a treadmill. Hence why my strength is great, my physique thick, but not much definition except in traps.

Gah, it is the nutrition.

[Bio-Active]

Obviously what I do works. I believe in food timing. Each meal that I eat is different proportion of fats,carbs and protein but that's not really what this forum is for. It's all about figuring out what works for you. What works for me may or may not work for anyone else. I don't binge

[agalloch]

Obviously what I do works. I believe in food timing. Each meal that I eat is different proportion of fats,carbs and protein but that's not really what this forum is for. It's all about figuring out what works for you. What works for me may or may not work for anyone else. I don't binge

So why do you take gear if you can do all this naturally?

[Bio-Active]

So why do you take gear if you can do all this naturally?

we are getting off subject here. I understand your question but again the nutrition forum is were to start and maximize your gains whether you are On gear or not. A lot of people skip this step and miss out on potential gains

[agalloch]

we are getting off subject here. I understand your question but again the nutrition forum is were to start and maximize your gains whether you are I gear or not. A lot of people skip this step and miss out on potential gains

Honestly I am pretty sure I'm on point there, just need to axe the binge eating on weekends. If it wasn't my strength wouldn't be going up when I have low test, imo. Still, I'm curious, why do you use gear? And, why can't I B&C into the summer and recover in the Fall if I can recover?

[Bio-Active]

You can do anything you want. I am only offering advice. The advice I offer is because I care about our members and there health. If you choose to stay on you understand the risks.

[agalloch]

You can do anything you want. I am only offering advice. The advice I offer is because I care about our members and there health. If you choose to stay on you understand the risks.

Is there scientific evidence of the risk? As far as I'm aware, only 3 people die annually from steroid useage. My PRIMARY concern is fertility issue that I may have if I want kids in 4 - 6 years.

[Bio-Active]

Is there scientific evidence of the risk? As far as I'm aware, only 3 people die annually from steroid useage. My PRIMARY concern is fertility issue that I may have if I want kids in 4 - 6 years.

do you want to have to rely on meds to feel normal the rest of your life?

[agalloch]

do you want to have to rely on meds to feel normal the rest of your life?

Injecting once a week wouldn't bug me. It takes < 2 mins, and it's not expensive (what, maybe up to $200 a year in UGL test E?) Plus I'm insured, so I'm sure pharma stuff will be covered. If I can cruise between cycles, blast, and maintain fertility (THAT is the most important part to me) I'd do that than feel up and down right now. Plus my test will drop over the years, so there is a benefit to keeping it elevated. I'd probably run cycles up to 35, then cruise infinitly after.

[Back In Black]

Wow!

Good luck with this Jim

[agalloch]

Wow!

Good luck with this Jim

Well I'm serious, I don't understand the long term implications of a few years of B&C folowed by an injection of test e per week to keep high natural levels?

[Back In Black]

Well I'm serious, I don't understand the long term implications of a few years of B&C folowed by an injection of test e per week to keep high natural levels?

Well, it would be 2 injections per week. Plus your pins of HCG 2-3 times over week. At your age you are likely to be alive for another 70 years. That's ALOT of pins and all those 'only 2 minutes' will add up to months of your life pinning. Not to mention adding in doctors visits.

You will have to hope your insurance covers you for the rest of your life and that it covers EVERYTHING involved. If at any point it doesn't cover it you have to source everything you need until you die. You have to make sure you will always have access and trust your UGL to be quality because if you run out and/or get bunk gear you are in for one hell of an uncomfortable roller coaster. You will also have to pay for regular blood tests and learn how to decipher them and adjust dosages and compounds accordingly.

Oh, and yes, it's quite possible you could become infertile although plenty have people have had children whils B&Cing or being on TRT but it's no guarantee.

Learn from your silly mistake and get yourself back on track naturally. Was that your first cycle? What are your stats?

[agalloch]

Well, it would be 2 injections per week. Plus your pins of HCG 2-3 times over week. At your age you are likely to be alive for another 70 years. That's ALOT of pins and all those 'only 2 minutes' will add up to months of your life pinning. Not to mention adding in doctors visits.

You will have to hope your insurance covers you for the rest of your life and that it covers EVERYTHING involved. If at any point it doesn't cover it you have to source everything you need until you die. You have to make sure you will always have access and trust your UGL to be quality because if you run out and/or get bunk gear you are in for one hell of an uncomfortable roller coaster. You will also have to pay for regular blood tests and learn how to decipher them and adjust dosages and compounds accordingly.

Oh, and yes, it's quite possible you could become infertile although plenty have people have had children whils B&Cing or being on TRT but it's no guarantee.

Learn from your silly mistake and get yourself back on track naturally. Was that your first cycle? What are your stats?

Damn, you just schooled me. That's what I needed to hear.

It was my first cycle. Stats are 5'7", just turned 26, 200lbs, about 20% BF (not sure exactly). Bench is 325 (+/- 10 lbs), I just 1RM'd 465 on squat last week, deadlift is 500 lbs (+/- 5 lbs), OHP is 205.

My goal is to be slim, defined, but not Abercombie slim, but not bodybuilder huge - dead middle, notably strong, but not stupid/steroid looking in size. About 9% BF would be amazing. And I have 4 months to do it. And have DNP on hand.

[Bio-Active]

This is the point I have been trying to make. At 20 % bf you clearly need to work on your nutrition. Please head over to the nutrition forum and get that part sorted out. Thanks BIB!!