Self medicating TRT

[energizer bunny]

I have been trying to get my TRT sorted for the past year, lots of doc appointments just to try and get an appointment with an endo, i have paid out of my own pocket for all blood work. I had my endo appointment monday gone and it was horrible, he does not want to help me at all. (All my blood work points to primary hypogonadism). I have contacted a private clinic and the cost is pretty high and they only prescribe the Nebido at £100 a pop, so i would have to get HCG and an AI myself. I havent made my mind up yet but i am leaning on self medicating. I would do this with the most care possible, i would be getting bloods taken as in a normal protocol untill i am dialed in then 2 x a year. If i start feeling worse i will come off corectly with PCT then head to the private docs, though i cant see any problems with self medicating as long as i follow TRT doses and have bloods taken including PSA. I know people say you cant beat a professional Dr BUT in my experience the vets on this board know far more than any professional i have seen. Im not sticking with NHS, i can not give anymore of my time to getting no were.

My symptoms are getting worse and i am getting lower by the week, ive got a shit load going on and need to be fully focused these next few years, im paying for college etc, moods,cognitive thinking,sexual prowess,muscle building,fat loss, cardiovascualr health are all taking a beating and im not myself, and i know the reason, but can not get the help i need off the NHS that i pay tax for!! now i wouldn't be arsed if i wasn't feeling like shit and having all the blood work to prove the cause of my lowness!

im also slightly anemic which could also be caused from the low test!

sorry for the rant. just need to get started on getting sorted, now!

opinions on self medicating TRT?

anyone doing this?




cheers

[Schwarzenegger]

To help u better please shed some light on

Age?
Lab values?
List of all symptoms?
Previous AAS use?

[Ccdiesel]

I would self-medicate and make my own test c but that's assuming you have the time and ability to do that. However what makes you think you need trt? A lot of other issues can be over looked and make you feel just as bad if not worse than a low t issue.

Post full BW

[energizer bunny]

This is all my blood work, i am 32, symptoms listed above in first post. My last cycle was in 2010. i have an injured testicle from puberty.


Blood Work 1

BIOCHEMISTRY

TRIGLYCERIDES 1.2 mmol/L < 2.3
CHOLESTEROL 4.2 mmol/L Optimum <5.0
HDL CHOLESTEROL *1.6 mmol/L 0.9 - 1.5
HDL % of total 38 % 20 and over
LDL CHOLESTEROL 2.1 mmol/L Up to 3.0

ENDOCRINOLOGY

TESTOSTERONE 7.9 nmol/L 7.6 - 31.4
Reference Ranges apply to adults

SPECIAL PATHOLOGY

Free Testosterone *7.59 pg/ml 8.8 - 27.0
Test repeated

ENDOCRINOLOGY

17-Beta OESTRADIOL 59 pmol/L 44 –

BIOCHEMISTRY


FERRITIN 39 ug/L 30 - 400

ENDOCRINOLOGY

THYROID PROFILE 2

TOTAL THYROXINE(T4) 66 nmol/L 59 - 154
THYROID STIMULATING HORMONE 3.10 mIU/L 0.27 - 4.2
FREE THYROXINE 15.5 pmol/l 12.0 - 22.0
FREE T3 5.3 pmol/L 3.1 - 6.8

IMMUNOLOGY

THYROID ANTIBODIES

Thyroglobulin Antibody <10.0 IU/mL 0-115(Negative)
Method used for Anti-Tg: Roche Modular

Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies 7.6 IU/mL 0 - 34
Method used for Anti-TPO: Roche Modular

Blood work 2

Bone profile
normal no action necessary
serum calcium 2.30mmol/L (2.12-2.60)
corrected serum calcium level 2.28mmol/L (2.20-2.60
serum inorganic phosphate 1.02mmol/L (0.80-1.50)

Urea and electrolytes
normal no action necessary
serum sodium 145mm0l/L (133-146)
serum potassium 4.4mmol/L (3.5-5.3)
serum urea level 5.9mmol/L (2.5-7.8)
serum creatinine 71mmol/L (70-110)

Liver function test
not normal but no action necessary
serum total protein 71g/l (60-80)
serum albumin 49g/l (35-50)
serum total bilirubin level 16umol/L (<21)
alk phos 66u/l (30-130)
serum ALT level 42u/l (<40)

serum lipids
normal no action necessary
serum cholesterol 4.5mmol/L (no ref range)
serum triglycerides 0.6mmol/L (0.5-1.7)
serum HDL level 1.4mmol/L (1-1.5)
total cholesterol:HDL ratio 3.2
non HDL cholesterol level 3.1mmol/L

serum TSH level 2.27mu/L (0.3-4.7)
normal no action necessary

serum testosterone 10.0nmol/L (9-25)
normal no action required

FBC
not normal but no action necessary
eosinophil count 0.01 10*9/L (0.04-0.40)
Haematocrit 0.397 L/L (0.400-0.500)
HB 132.0g/L (130-180)
lymphocyte count 2.28 10*9L (1.00-4.50)
MCH 32.0pg (27.0-34.0)
MCV 96.4fl (83.0-101.0)
monocyte count 0.49 10*9/L (0.20-0.80)
neutrophil count 2.88 10*9/L (2.00-7.00)
platelet count 211 10*9/L (150-450)
RBCs 4.12 10*12/L(4.50-5.50)
WBCs 0.01 10*9/L (4.00-11.00)
basophil count 0.01 10*9/L (0.00-0.10)
erythrocyte sedimentation rate 22mm/hour (1-10)

plasma glucose level 5.0mmol/L


Blood work 3

Testosterone -7.3 nmo/l (8.4-28.7)
Free Testosterone-9.64 pg/ml (8-27)
SHBG-13 nmo/l (17.3-65.8)

FSH-6.3 u/l (1.5-12.4)
LH-5.8 u/l (1.7-8.6)
Oestradiol-57 pmo/l (28-156)
Prolactin-188 mu/l (102-496)

[Test Rage]

Blood work 3

Testosterone -7.3 nmo/l (8.4-28.7)
Free Testosterone-9.64 pg/ml (8-27)
SHBG-13 nmo/l (17.3-65.8)

FSH-6.3 u/l (1.5-12.4)
LH-5.8 u/l (1.7-8.6)
Oestradiol-57 pmo/l (28-156)
Prolactin-188 mu/l (102-496)

Balls are clearly under-responsive. Which sucks because you have some healthy numbers except for your T. SHGB is low also. This is all because your balls are under producing. This means all you have is Exogenous T. I would work hard on diet and get rid of that anemic issue. Get yourself to your current peak potential with your diet.

If you are deficient in Iron you are almost guaranteed deficient in other minerals. This is not to be overlooked.

If you get no response from HCG administration then you are behind the 8ball because the testes are responsible for regulating/creating over a dozen hormones. That is the whole bigger point of running HCG while on TRT besides just "fertility". If you are Primary Hypo then you need to run your Test, AI, HCG, and also add Pregnalone and DHEA because you will become deficient in these as time passes if your balls arent putting out. Pregnalone is even more abundant than testosterone.

What I would do is blast HCG and get blood work to confirm how bad of a Primary hypo issue you have. Your balls are obviously working but not well. Your pituitary output looks good.

If HCG does nothing then you will need a TRT protocol with test, AI, HCG, Pregnalone and DHEA. Guys who are secondary Hypo would just need to take HCG instead of Pregnalone and DHEA because there balls will respond and make enough of these hormones. You will need extra Pregnalone and DHEA if you are Primary Hypo.

[energizer bunny]

Blood work 3

Testosterone -7.3 nmo/l (8.4-28.7)
Free Testosterone-9.64 pg/ml (8-27)
SHBG-13 nmo/l (17.3-65.8)

FSH-6.3 u/l (1.5-12.4)
LH-5.8 u/l (1.7-8.6)
Oestradiol-57 pmo/l (28-156)
Prolactin-188 mu/l (102-496)

Balls are clearly under-responsive. Which sucks because you have some healthy numbers except for your T. SHGB is low also. This is all because your balls are under producing. This means all you have is Exogenous T. I would work hard on diet and get rid of that anemic issue. Get yourself to your current peak potential with your diet.

If you are deficient in Iron you are almost guaranteed deficient in other minerals. This is not to be overlooked.

If you get no response from HCG administration then you are behind the 8ball because the testes are responsible for regulating/creating over a dozen hormones. That is the whole bigger point of running HCG while on TRT besides just "fertility". If you are Primary Hypo then you need to run your Test, AI, and also add Pregnalone and DHEA because you will become deficient in these as time passes if your balls arent putting out.

What I would do is blast HCG and get blood work to confirm how bad of a Primary hypo issue you have. Your balls are obviously working but not well. Your pituitary output looks good.

If HCG does nothing then you will need a TRT protocol with test AI Pregnalone and DHEA.

Thanks for your response mate......

Im not deficient in Iron, well thats what the doc says.....he doesnt know what is causing my low RBC, ive read that having low T levels can cause people to be anemic?

Ive not heard of running HCG to help with test levels, can you please give me some information on this? also say i did this HCG protocol would this make me feel better?

thanks again

[Test Rage]

I know many guys that have run HCG monotherapy but what seems to be the most popular and give the best feeling is Test and HCG. This is anecdotal but seems to be reported frequently. If I were you, I would do a restart. (I would prefer HCG at 200iu a day for 2 weeks and then Torem 120/120/90/60. dont forget AI). Then wait and get bloodwork.

If your balls did not kick on then I would start HCG monotherapy by doing 250iu of HCG 4 days a week EOD. I would get bloods done and see where the numbers stand. Obviously your LH FSH will go down from HCG usage, but we will see how well your balls respond. Make sure to run exemestane at 12.5mg eod at the start and adjust after bloods. Try to keep estrogen around 30.

If your balls just will not start producing then you know Testosterone is your only option left. And since you will have confirmed you are a primary hypo case then I would do HCG at 250iu twice per week and 150mg of test per week. Do exemestane at 12.5mg eod. Get blood work several times to lock down where you want your test and estrogen to be.

These are just starting points but generally you are a young guy and dont want to hop on test especially if your balls are under performing already and you envision having kids. Combination of under performing balls plus exogenous test does not help your chances. You can start by doing this stuff and fine tune your own protocol based on the bloodwork.

[Ccdiesel]

I know many guys that have run HCG monotherapy but what seems to be the most popular and give the best feeling is Test and HCG. This is anecdotal but seems to be reported frequently. If I were you, I would do a restart. (I would prefer HCG at 200iu a day for 2 weeks and then Torem 120/120/90/60. dont forget AI). Then wait and get bloodwork.

If your balls did not kick on then I would start HCG monotherapy by doing 250iu of HCG 4 days a week EOD. I would get bloods done and see where the numbers stand. Obviously your LH FSH will go down from HCG usage, but we will see how well your balls respond. Make sure to run exemestane at 12.5mg eod at the start and adjust after bloods. Try to keep estrogen around 30.

If your balls just will not start producing then you know Testosterone is your only option left. And since you will have confirmed you are a primary hypo case then I would do HCG at 250iu twice per week and 150mg of test per week. Do exemestane at 12.5mg eod. Get blood work several times to lock down where you want your test and estrogen to be.

These are just starting points but generally you are a young guy and dont want to hop on test especially if your balls are under performing already and you envision having kids. Combination of under performing balls plus exogenous test does not help your chances. You can start by doing this stuff and fine tune your own protocol based on the bloodwork.

Agreed, this would give you reassurance you are making the right decisions.

[energizer bunny]

I know many guys that have run HCG monotherapy but what seems to be the most popular and give the best feeling is Test and HCG. This is anecdotal but seems to be reported frequently. If I were you, I would do a restart. (I would prefer HCG at 200iu a day for 2 weeks and then Torem 120/120/90/60. dont forget AI). Then wait and get bloodwork.

If your balls did not kick on then I would start HCG monotherapy by doing 250iu of HCG 4 days a week EOD. I would get bloods done and see where the numbers stand. Obviously your LH FSH will go down from HCG usage, but we will see how well your balls respond. Make sure to run exemestane at 12.5mg eod at the start and adjust after bloods. Try to keep estrogen around 30.

Each Blood test costs me £300, i dont mind paying this to keep in check, is there any reason i shouldnt/cant just go straight into HCG monotherapy? miss out the restart as getting bloods after both will be costly and i may be no further forward. I had more bloods taken monday gone and should get results early next week, my thinking is to start HCG monotherapy ASAP i.e once i can afford to buy all the medication.



If your balls just will not start producing then you know Testosterone is your only option left. And since you will have confirmed you are a primary hypo case then I would do HCG at 250iu twice per week and 150mg of test per week. Do exemestane at 12.5mg eod. Get blood work several times to lock down where you want your test and estrogen to be.

These are just starting points but generally you are a young guy and dont want to hop on test especially if your balls are under performing already and you envision having kids. Combination of under performing balls plus exogenous test does not help your chances. You can start by doing this stuff and fine tune your own protocol based on the bloodwork.

in bold^^

Again thanks for your reply.....

[kelkel]

Energizer I agree with Testrage on most points so I'm not going to rehash them:

I'd simply do an HCG stimulation test and see where you land.
Work on your iron level. It's important. If you end up supplementing with elemental iron start low and take it with Vitamin C for better absorption.
Secondary hypogonadal does not exclude the need for Preg or DHEA. Only BW does.

[energizer bunny]

Energizer I agree with Testrage on most points so I'm not going to rehash them:

I'd simply do an HCG stimulation test and see where you land.
Work on your iron level. It's important. If you end up supplementing with elemental iron start low and take it with Vitamin C for better absorption.
Secondary hypogonadal does not exclude the need for Preg or DHEA. Only BW does.

Thanks kelkel!! appreciated

Ok i will look into getting this sorted ASAP........

The doctor says i am not deficient in Iron, he says he does not know the cause of the low RBC, we are trying to get this sorted as we speak.

TestRage/kelkel

how long should i run HCG mono therapy before getting first blood test?

do you both agree on dosages of 250iu EOD?

do you bothe agree on 12.5mg EOD of exemesatne?

is there any other supplements i should run along with HCG and exemestane?

again thanks to you both for your help!

[energizer bunny]

Update......

Had another testosterone test with PSA (ordered off the NHS endo)

Testosterone 9.1 nmol/l (9-25)
PSA 0.322 ug/l (0.010-1.400)


I have been weighing up my options this past month taking into consideration my health, cost of treatments etc. I have decided to go the private medical route instead of self medicating, this will cost me, though at least i will/should get professional help. I am at my first appointment tomorrow at the leger clinic in Doncaster. i will be taking all my previous bloods and hope he wont order anymore.

[energizer bunny]

Had my consultation today, traveled 2 half hours, paid £200. and he put me on clomid 50mg eod.

........so i am starting clomid therapy for 8 weeks, then blood work will be taken to see were im at.

this isnt what i was hoping for, he said being at a young age and maybe still wanting kids he wants me to try this, if it works i will be happy! i will post up my blood work in 8 weeks.

a

[dhickey]

Smart doc. Hopefully he tests for E2 and addresses if necessary. You should always start with a SERM. If you can get by with a low dose SERM, it's much more convenient than full on replacement.

[energizer bunny]

Smart doc. Hopefully he tests for E2 and addresses if necessary. You should always start with a SERM. If you can get by with a low dose SERM, it's much more convenient than full on replacement.

nah he wont be testing for E2, but i will lol.......he said he will test my T levels, PSA and HMB (i think it was HMB) ill get the E2 and prolactin test privately and bring with me to the next appointment.

is an AI needed on clomid therapy?