Is prescription testosterone causing heart attacks,strokes & premature death? (Pic)

[suprarob]

A little while back I met a hair dresser who said her dad died of a heart attack. She said he had gotten into great shape and then died of a heart attack suddenly. I probed and found out he was on TRT. When I first started TRT I felt great and look great. But recently my Hematocrit is up and my doc is concerned. So am I. I feel a pulsing in my body,mental fog,ringing in my ears,fatigued and inability to sleep at times. Then today I get this suggestion from a FB ad. It says you are legally entitled to money if you or a loved one has suffered. I don't want to be paranoid but I have to ask;

1) Is it just a coincidence with the hair dresser?
2) Do I need to bleed out or rest from TRT?
3) Are these ads misleading or fact?
4) Are we addicted and avoid the truth of side effects?
5) First I just needed TRT,then HCG,then Estro blockers and now a self bleed or regular blood donation. Is it worth it?

[BallSak]

When RBCs are up, donate blood. Pretty simple. Otherwise you run the risk of stroke and heart attack.

[suprarob]

When RBCs are up, donate blood. Pretty simple. Otherwise you run the risk of stroke and heart attack.

Simple for most @BallSak. But if your religion forbids blood donations or transfusion not so simple.

[Bonaparte]

Simple for most @BallSak. But if your religion forbids blood donations or transfusion not so simple.

Well, does it?
If so, just have the blood discarded. Surely your god would be ok with that...

[NEFLRick]

Simple for most @BallSak. But if your religion forbids blood donations or transfusion not so simple.

There are also religions which forbid medical care of any kind. And, those people die of things which others would be treated for and be fine.

Not to knock anyone's religion but, if a religion stops you from doing something which may save your life then maybe it's time to question what that religion is asking you not to do.

[dreadnok89]

Simple for most @BallSak. But if your religion forbids blood donations or transfusion not so simple.

Ask your God then

[2Sox]

Simple for most @BallSak. But if your religion forbids blood donations or transfusion not so simple.

I'm sure this has been debated for a very long time, but in my view, if something like this puts a person's health at risk - it's time to start questioning their religion. Or maybe it's the way to cull out bad genetics and weaklings. Just let them die. Very scary stuff. I never heard of a God that would want that to happen.

Humans were blessed with an innate, ethical self and an evolving intellect. Maybe it's time for some people with certain beliefs to get in touch with these and use their power of choice.

[dreadnok89]

I'm sure this has been debated for a very long time, but in my view, if something like this puts a person's health at risk - it's time to start questioning their religion. Or maybe it's the way to cull out bad genetics and weaklings. Just let them die. Very scary stuff. I never heard of a God that would want that to happen.

Humans were blessed with an innate, ethical self and an evolving intellect. Maybe it's time for some people with certain beliefs to get in touch with these and use their power of choice.

dont even bother this whole thread seems trollish

["Maximus"]

dont even bother this whole thread seems trollish

Look who's talking! if you have nothing worthy to add to the discussion, do what many intelligent/smart folks do around here: keep the heck out of the thread or don't type anything. Simple as that!

[suprarob]

dont even bother this whole thread seems trollish

You got me. The pics I posted up of myself,the business's I said I own and me saying I've been married for 33 years is a hoax. I really have nothing better to do with my time so I thought I would troll a steroid forum.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I might get flamed for what I am going to write but....

There are risks associated with running testosterone levels too high.
If one's blood consistently gets too thick, one should lower their dose.
If one needs an AI because E2 gets above normal range, one should lower their dose and/or lose bodyfat.

Now I also want to note that there are risks with having low testosterone levels.

The idea is to get into a healthy or optimal level.
More is not necessarily better.

[kelkel]

I might get flamed for what I am going to write but....

There are risks associated with running testosterone levels too high.
If one's blood consistently gets too thick, one should lower their dose.
If one needs an AI because E2 gets above normal range, one should lower their dose and/or lose bodyfat.

Now I also want to note that there are risks with having low testosterone levels.

The idea is to get into a healthy or optimal level.
More is not necessarily better.

Could not have said it better. Far more risks with low testosterone.
The hairdresser needs to step away from the salon and breath some fresh air. It's effecting her.

[slates]

I believe so. After all, androgens are taxing on the body. If a report came out saying that trenbolone increased the odds of having a heart attack, no one would be surprised. Why is it hard to imagine that a less potent but still powerful androgen like testosterone does the same?

[kelkel]

I believe so. After all, androgens are taxing on the body. If a report came out saying that trenbolone increased the odds of having a heart attack, no one would be surprised. Why is it hard to imagine that a less potent but still powerful androgen like testosterone does the same?

Tren and test are two completely different animals. Here, we're talking about normal physiologic levels of testosterone. If you want taxing on the body. Live without testosterone.

This is a great read for anyone in the beginning of TRT. Abraham Morgantaler's "Testosterone For Life."

http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Suppleme...-For-Life.html

Or, "Testosterone, A Man's Guide" by Nelson Vergel. Great read.

http://www.amazon.com/Testosterone-M.../dp/B003JBI22A

[Metalject]

I believe so. After all, androgens are taxing on the body. If a report came out saying that trenbolone increased the odds of having a heart attack, no one would be surprised. Why is it hard to imagine that a less potent but still powerful androgen like testosterone does the same?

Here's a good way to look at it. If you eat lots of white fish every day, that's a healthy diet. If you eat lots of deep fried white fish every day, that's a very unhealthy diet. But how can that be? Both are food, both come from the same fish, so how can that be? Obviously "how can that be" is not a serious question....we can all easily understand the difference in eating white fish and deep fried white fish. But testosterone and and trenbolone, while both androgens are not equal any more than the two fishes.

Note: If you ate 48lbs of white fish every day, baked with nothing on it, that would be bad for you....same as taking butt loads of testosterone every day would be bad for you.

[GSXRvi6]

I believe so. After all, androgens are taxing on the body. If a report came out saying that trenbolone increased the odds of having a heart attack, no one would be surprised. Why is it hard to imagine that a less potent but still powerful androgen like testosterone does the same?

This is what I was trying to get at, if your TRT target is to be normal, there should only be benefits. If your pushing it higher because, well 200/wk just makes me feel that much better even though 100/wk causes me to be symptom free so I'll just run 200/wk, imo your now outside the bounds of "TRT" and your getting into low dose long running cycles, which is widely known to have undesirable side effects.

My body is built to operate with certain levels of androgens, if I'm keeping within those ranges why would it be stressful on my body?

It's just like anything else, you abuse tylenol and it will mess you up.

[slates]

This is what I was trying to get at, if your TRT target is to be normal, there should only be benefits. If your pushing it higher because, well 200/wk just makes me feel that much better even though 100/wk causes me to be symptom free so I'll just run 200/wk, imo your now outside the bounds of "TRT" and your getting into low dose long running cycles, which is widely known to have undesirable side effects.

My body is built to operate with certain levels of androgens, if I'm keeping within those ranges why would it be stressful on my body?

It's just like anything else, you abuse tylenol and it will mess you up.

I think the issue is that the decline in testosterone levels with age is normal and healthy. An older man's body can't handle a testosterone level of 800 ng/dl like a young man's can. However, a lot of doctors are bringing 60-year-old men up to this level or even higher! Now if a man has low testosterone for his age, that could be an issue and he'd probably benefit from having it brought up to normal. However, if his levels are low compared to a young man, that's the way it's supposed to be.

[Chicagotarsier]

There are hypogonadal individuals that take 200+ mg a week testosterone and result in <900 Ttotal test reading. EVERYONE is different. How would you be outside the bounds of Trt to be in normal range (normal is just what they call it). My Androil dose of 6 pills a day (equiv of 170 or so testosterone a week) put me at mid to low 500. Felt better but wow 175 test prop was like turning the light on in the room.

So lets get all "medical" for a moment.

If you take over 80 a week testosterone you are going to be shut down in a few months. 200 and you are shut down in a few weeks. In all reality you are living on artificial testosterone period if you are on TrT. There are a billion factors on how your body will process testosterone. A 175 dose for me might put me at 800. A 175 dose for you might put you at 1250. There are recorded natural testosterone levels in the 95th percentile of over 1200 and some up to 1600. It is a case by case basis. It is completely dependent on the person. If this was the same for all it would be like Lipitor....it is not. X does not work for everyone.

This is what I was trying to get at, if your TRT target is to be normal, there should only be benefits. If your pushing it higher because, well 200/wk just makes me feel that much better even though 100/wk causes me to be symptom free so I'll just run 200/wk, imo your now outside the bounds of "TRT" and your getting into low dose long running cycles, which is widely known to have undesirable side effects.

My body is built to operate with certain levels of androgens, if I'm keeping within those ranges why would it be stressful on my body?

It's just like anything else, you abuse tylenol and it will mess you up.

[BallSak]

I believe so. After all, androgens are taxing on the body. If a report came out saying that trenbolone increased the odds of having a heart attack, no one would be surprised. Why is it hard to imagine that a less potent but still powerful androgen like testosterone does the same?

Completely inaccurate and irrelevant.

[BallSak]

I might get flamed for what I am going to write but....

There are risks associated with running testosterone levels too high.
If one's blood consistently gets too thick, one should lower their dose.
If one needs an AI because E2 gets above normal range, one should lower their dose and/or lose bodyfat.

Now I also want to note that there are risks with having low testosterone levels.

The idea is to get into a healthy or optimal level.
More is not necessarily better.

Agree with TDD. Testosterone levels are an individualistic thing. We all have a different optimal level of T. Some guys need to be at 600, some at 1100. More is not better, less is not better, better is better.

[GSXRvi6]

I said yes, here is why

The protocols I see people posting on here for their TRT are insane, I don't think it's TRT so much as stupid doctors.

If your RBC and hemocrit are running high your probably running more test than your body is meant to handle. Doctors saying "I want you at around 1000" is some scary shit. If your Low T symptoms go away with free T at 18 and serum at 500, then why the hell would you run more??

The problem is, some of us depend on TRT to "be normal" and others appear to use TRT as "anti-aging treatment" and they run shit to the limits.. well golly gee I wonder why people are having problems.

TRT is not new, it's been around a REALLY long time, it's becoming a hot topic now in the news because they are pushing it like candy on the street corner.

I work with some guys that are looking into TRT, they are running around 300 serum levels, I asked them, are you experiencing XYZ symptoms, they say no, and I'm like, don't touch it then.

I just hope this street corner peddling of this new " miracle drug" doesn't screw shit up for those of us that need it.

[Chicagotarsier]

SO riddle me this Batman.

A doctor is only allowed to prescribe you 2 months worth of medication if it is a schedule 1-2 or 3 drug. How would any responsible doctor prescribing a medication with known blood thickening qualities not have you on CBC tests every 6 months max and 3 months if insurance covers it?

None.

If you go out and buy your meds elsewhere it is all on you to be responsible and knowledgeable.

As far as telling people with 300 levels to not touch it. You realize being low testosterone increases their risk of stroke and heart attack by a factor of 6-10x? Glad you are not a doctor.

I said yes, here is why

The protocols I see people posting on here for their TRT are insane, I don't think it's TRT so much as stupid doctors.

If your RBC and hemocrit are running high your probably running more test than your body is meant to handle. Doctors saying "I want you at around 1000" is some scary shit. If your Low T symptoms go away with free T at 18 and serum at 500, then why the hell would you run more??

The problem is, some of us depend on TRT to "be normal" and others appear to use TRT as "anti-aging treatment" and they run shit to the limits.. well golly gee I wonder why people are having problems.

TRT is not new, it's been around a REALLY long time, it's becoming a hot topic now in the news because they are pushing it like candy on the street corner.

I work with some guys that are looking into TRT, they are running around 300 serum levels, I asked them, are you experiencing XYZ symptoms, they say no, and I'm like, don't touch it then.

I just hope this street corner peddling of this new " miracle drug" doesn't screw shit up for those of us that need it.

[trikydik]

I said yes, here is why

The protocols I see people posting on here for their TRT are insane, I don't think it's TRT so much as stupid doctors.

If your RBC and hemocrit are running high your probably running more test than your body is meant to handle. Doctors saying "I want you at around 1000" is some scary shit. If your Low T symptoms go away with free T at 18 and serum at 500, then why the hell would you run more?? The problem is, some of us depend on TRT to "be normal" and others appear to use TRT as "anti-aging treatment" and they run shit to the limits.. well golly gee I wonder why people are having problems.

My last 2 dr.s are nothign like this... Both want to see my serum levels at around 550 to 700...last blood work, I was 880 and dr. lowered weekly injections some. I have never met a Dr. who thought 1000 was a good level...

[kelkel]

You know what's interesting Metal? Low dose Tren has actually been studied for testosterone replacement. I could not imagine that. Still have the report I believe.

[GSXRvi6]

You know what's interesting Metal? Low dose Tren has actually been studied for testosterone replacement. I could not imagine that. Still have the report I believe.

Wow, I couldn't imagine the combination of low T plus tren, that has to suck! Does the study talk about the psychological effects that were observed?

[kelkel]

Wow, I couldn't imagine the combination of low T plus tren, that has to suck! Does the study talk about the psychological effects that were observed?

I dug it up. About 50 pages total.....

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/conten....2010.full.pdf

[slates]

You know what's interesting Metal? Low dose Tren has actually been studied for testosterone replacement. I could not imagine that. Still have the report I believe.

Believe it or not, the study actually concluded that low dose Tren has significant benefits over testosterone. The name of the study is "17β-Hydroxyestra-4,9,11-trien-3-one (trenbolone) exhibits tissue selective anabolic activity: effects on muscle, bone, adiposity, hemoglobin, and prostate."

[kelkel]

Believe it or not, the study actually concluded that low dose Tren has significant benefits over testosterone. The name of the study is "17β-Hydroxyestra-4,9,11-trien-3-one (trenbolone) exhibits tissue selective anabolic activity: effects on muscle, bone, adiposity, hemoglobin, and prostate."

It also says future research is needed. And it's one study that obviously went nowhere.

[suprarob]

This is good. Seems tweaking to fit ones body and needs are necessary but being neglected by doctors and us alike. I am going to lower my dose voluntarily and see if my RBC's improve. I will look for that "magic" number that is right for me. Seems no use in feeling better,looking better and getting bigger is of no value if I drop dead of a heart attack or stroke. The whole reason for getting on TRT is to sustain health and life so as to be around a while for my progeny.

[kelkel]

I favor the middle pic. Such a nice pic of Lov and his three daughters.

[lovbyts]

I favor the middle pic. Such a nice pic of Lov and his three daughters.

LoL. If that was the case (daughters) then I would be guilty of incest since I slept (had sex with) all three in the same bed at the same time. :-p. No they aren't my daughters... Thank you trt

[suprarob]

LoL. If that was the case (daughters) then I would be guilty of incest since I slept (had sex with) all three in the same bed at the same time. :-p. No they aren't my daughters... Thank you trt

[kelkel]

Humor Lov, humor.....
Never get tired of that pic. Jealous maybe, but not tired.

[Low Testosterone]

Interesting thread. Not much else to add. But yes, Tren had an enormous amount of therapeutic success for nearly 25-30yrs in many different areas. Like many hormones today, it's far more often misunderstood than not.

[lovbyts]

Humor Lov, humor.....
Never get tired of that pic. Jealous maybe, but not tired.

I like the video better. :-D

[kelkel]

I like the video better. :-D

There's a video? Feel free to pm it. Just be kind and blur yourself out first please.

[APIs]

I read the same advertisement on FB. It mentions "two recent studies" which I believe were discredited on this very forum. Needless to say, the ad is written by lawyers. That alone speaks volumes.

Any medicine or treatment comes with a set of inherent risks. One must weigh the risks and base their decision to accept treatment based on their own comfort level. Medicine affects people in different ways. No one can look at you and state how a certain drug will affect you. Look at this forum, there's some people with higher E2, some with higher Hematocrit, Blood Pressure, PSA and the list goes on. Most though, appear to get by with a little AI and an occasional trip to the Red Cross. Small price to pay IMO, but that's coming from my own "comfort level". In the end, managing these facets with proper medical oversight is the key IMO. That's why I pay a 'good' professional money to manage it for me.

TRT has literally improved my life soo much I couldn't imagine going back...

[kelkel]

I read the same advertisement on FB. It mentions "two recent studies" which I believe were discredited on this very forum. Needless to say, the ad is written by lawyers. That alone speaks volumes.

Any medicine or treatment comes with a set of inherent risks. One must weigh the risks and base their decision to accept treatment based on their own comfort level. Medicine affects people in different ways. No one can look at you and state how a certain drug will affect you. Look at this forum, there's some people with higher E2, some with higher Hematocrit, Blood Pressure, PSA and the list goes on. Most though, appear to get by with a little AI and an occasional trip to the Red Cross. Small price to pay IMO, but that's coming from my own "comfort level". In the end, managing these facets with proper medical oversight is the key IMO. That's why I pay a 'good' professional money to manage it for me.

TRT has literally improved my life soo much I couldn't imagine going back...

On the money API! Where you been? Would like to see you around here more.

[APIs]

On the money API! Where you been? Would like to see you around here more.

Thanks Kel, been very busy with my business & life in that order. A good thing I guess. I do frequently stop by & read the threads though...

[kelkel]

Thanks Kel, been very busy with my business & life in that order. A good thing I guess. I do frequently stop by & read the threads though...

Well, I've always appreciated your perspective and input. Show up more if you can.