Immunosuppression Through AAS:Related to Rheumatic Disease

[Ccdiesel]

First, rheumatology appointment last week just to get checked out and Dr immediately says I have RA. Still waiting on bloodwork and doing research as this dr prescribed methotrexate. Those that aren't familiar with these drugs they are immunosuppressive and are essentially a cell killing (cytotoxic) anti cancer drug, not unlike chemo therapy. Different dose obviously but who would ever just submit to that as a first line treatment.

So I am having a hard time finding the effects of aas compounds on the immune system and the inflammatory process. Studies are few and far between. But if certain aas compounds are immunosuppressive (likely dose dependent) my theory would be to use those compounds if it turns out I am In The beginning Stages of RA and monitor bloodwork. Still uncertain of labs abilities to test for specific inflammatory cells.

If anyone has any personal research or know of a study I would appreciate a response. Thanks guys.

For a background I am currently on prescribed trt:
80mg test c every 4th day
HCG 450iu every 4th day
Exemestane 12.5mg 4th day

195 lbs, 6'1" 13% body fat
Shoulder, knee, back pain.
Low inflammation (low Esr and C-reactive protein tests)

[gold43]

Methotrexate may treat rheumatoid arthritis by decreasing the activity of the immune system. Azathioprine is often the first-choice drug for long-term immunosuppression, and it is usually started together with steroids to allow tapering of steroids to the lowest dose possible. Steroids, for example prednisolone and methyl prednisolone, are useful and are the most commonly prescribed immunosuppressive drugs. Their full description is corticosteroids. Large doses of these drugs over a long period of time can, however, result in a long and well-known list of side-effects including:

*Weight gain, fluid retention and raised blood pressure

*Diabetes, in some patients

*Thinning of bones - osteoporosis

*Thinning of skin and easy bruising

*Risk of serious infections

Doses are reduced as soon as possible but no alternative agent has yet been developed that can completely replace the use of steroids.

If steroids are taken for a long time, the body stops producing its own steroid hormone. Suddenly stopping steroid treatment after it has been taken for a long time can then be dangerous, as the sudden shortage of steroid hormones causes an Addisonian crisis. Therefore steroid treatment is often reduced slowly to allow the adrenal glands to recover. However in the six months after you have stopped steroid treatment, an infection or other illness may increase the body's need for steroids, and you may need to start treatment with steroids again. You really need to discuss any choices you make with your doctor. Supervised treatment with Methotrexate may be have a better outcome in your favor.

[Ccdiesel]

Methotrexate may treat rheumatoid arthritis by decreasing the activity of the immune system. Azathioprine is often the first-choice drug for long-term immunosuppression, and it is usually started together with steroids to allow tapering of steroids to the lowest dose possible. Steroids, for example prednisolone and methyl prednisolone, are useful and are the most commonly prescribed immunosuppressive drugs. Their full description is corticosteroids. Large doses of these drugs over a long period of time can, however, result in a long and well-known list of side-effects including:

*Weight gain, fluid retention and raised blood pressure

*Diabetes, in some patients

*Thinning of bones - osteoporosis

*Thinning of skin and easy bruising

*Risk of serious infections

Doses are reduced as soon as possible but no alternative agent has yet been developed that can completely replace the use of steroids.

If steroids are taken for a long time, the body stops producing its own steroid hormone. Suddenly stopping steroid treatment after it has been taken for a long time can then be dangerous, as the sudden shortage of steroid hormones causes an Addisonian crisis. Therefore steroid treatment is often reduced slowly to allow the adrenal glands to recover. However in the six months after you have stopped steroid treatment, an infection or other illness may increase the body's need for steroids, and you may need to start treatment with steroids again. You really need to discuss any choices you make with your doctor. Supervised treatment with Methotrexate may be have a better outcome in your favor.

Okay, simple question. Does Methotrexate effect only immune system cell proliferation? Because of it's suspected mechanism of action I would assume it inhibits all cellular proliferation. We could probably talk all day about this because inflammatory pathways are not fully understood. That's why my focus was on aas compounds that possible slow the immune system or inflammation cytokine.

[gold43]

No, Methotrexate will affect all cell proliferation. It can be used to treat cancer, tumors even psoriasis. It will decrease the activity of your immune system, which is why that medication was subscribed. As you know, RA is a condition in which the body attacks its own joints, causing pain, swelling, and loss of function. Methotrexate may cause very serious, life-threatening side effects. You should only take Methotrexate to treat cancer or certain other conditions that are very severe and that cannot be treated with other medications. So your concern with this medication is obvious. And your interest in other treatment options is very sensible. However, I am not a doctor. Maybe speak with your Doc about a different line of treatment. As I stated above, the long term treatment with steroids will likely not put you in any better situation. Steroids can however be compounded with immunosupressive medications used to slowly taper off the steroids. As for steroids, prednisolone and methyl prednisolone, are useful and are the most commonly prescribed immunosuppressive drugs classified as corticosteroids. AAS steroids will likely not help you suppress the immune system or inflammation.

[Ccdiesel]

No, Methotrexate will affect all cell proliferation. It can be used to treat cancer, tumors even psoriasis. It will decrease the activity of your immune system, which is why that medication was subscribed. As you know, RA is a condition in which the body attacks its own joints, causing pain, swelling, and loss of function. Methotrexate may cause very serious, life-threatening side effects. You should only take Methotrexate to treat cancer or certain other conditions that are very severe and that cannot be treated with other medications. So your concern with this medication is obvious. And your interest in other treatment options is very sensible. However, I am not a doctor. Maybe speak with your Doc about a different line of treatment. As I stated above, the long term treatment with steroids will likely not put you in any better situation. Steroids can however be compounded with immunosupressive medications used to slowly taper off the steroids. As for steroids, prednisolone and methyl prednisolone, are useful and are the most commonly prescribed immunosuppressive drugs classified as corticosteroids. AAS steroids will likely not help you suppress the immune system or inflammation.

Most treatments are rather aggressive, which for some people they have debilitating symptoms and would certainly be appropriate. I may very well have inflammation that is chronic but to a lesser degree. Rheumatologist seem to be more aggressive with stopping disease progression but they make the assumption they are correct. Blood tests rarely confirm the disease. So monitoring progressive is next to impossible unless you show obvious and severe symptoms.

Thanks for the response, if I find out anything worth sharing I'll post. I'll be looking into treatments that are not so severe

[MODO]

Ooh!! Pick me! Finally I have a relevant thread for this.

I have had psoriasis all my life. Long story short it is also an autoimmune disease which is treated by immuno suppressants. Methotrexate has been offered to me as an option, I didn't take it. I've only used creams, which do almost nothing to control it.

I took a long test E cycle in 2010... my previously moderate-severe psoriasis DISAPPEARED! after stopping the cycle it stayed away for a few months and slowly started coming back. After a few years it was fully back and now I am on the cream again.

And I've heard this from other psoriasis sufferers too. Looks like AAS can have a therapeutic effect against some auto immune diseases.

[MODO]

Ooh!! Pick me! Finally I have a relevant thread for this. I have had psoriasis all my life. Long story short it is also an autoimmune disease which is treated by immuno suppressants. Methotrexate has been offered to me as an option, I didn't take it. I've only used creams, which do almost nothing to control it. I took a long test E cycle in 2010... my previously moderate-severe psoriasis DISAPPEARED! after stopping the cycle it stayed away for a few months and slowly started coming back. After a few years it was fully back and now I am on the cream again. And I've heard this from other psoriasis sufferers too. Looks like AAS can have a therapeutic effect against some auto immune diseases.

And I've talked with doctors about my results. They believe the immunosuppressant effects of the AAS cured my psoriasis, but none of them were willing to Rx it to me haha. Wasn't shocked.

[gold43]

Cc this may help in your search. Keep us updated.

http://forums.steroid.com/igf-1-lr3-...how-works.html

[Ccdiesel]

And I've talked with doctors about my results. They believe the immunosuppressant effects of the AAS cured my psoriasis, but none of them were willing to Rx it to me haha. Wasn't shocked.

Haha glad you responded. I have definitely felt better overall since I have started trt and this is a very small dosing compared to a cycle. What cycle dosages were you running? Anything else or just test?

This is not shocking given what ive read

[gold43]

Was thinking more of your situation. Of course there is no cure for RA, but in some cases remission.
As with the long term use of steroids having many side effects and not recommended. You may very well be able to find relief , possibly remission with longer Test E cycles and in between cycles using HGH/TB500 to keep symptoms suppressed. Just a thought.

[MODO]

Haha glad you responded. I have definitely felt better overall since I have started trt and this is a very small dosing compared to a cycle. What cycle dosages were you running? Anything else or just test? This is not shocking given what ive read

I've found doses anywhere between 350 to 500 mg per week works just fine. If you are planning on cycling in trt maybe take the methotrexate or whatever else when off cycle only and then see if the cycle by itself has you covered while you are on high test.

I would not add in HGH or any other drugs to try and bridge an immunosuppressant effect between cycles as the above poster mentioned. That's asking for all kinda of trouble for many different reasons. If cycling treats your symptoms then great, but use a legitimate medication or nothing in between cycles (other than regular TRT dose of course).

[Ccdiesel]

Was thinking more of your situation. Of course there is no cure for RA, but in some cases remission.
As with the long term use of steroids having many side effects and not recommended. You may very well be able to find relief , possibly remission with longer Test E cycles and in between cycles using HGH/TB500 to keep symptoms suppressed. Just a thought.

If I do anything it will be a blast and cruise scenario and bloodwork will focus on inflammatory markers if I can find what tests will yield the metrics I need. Still waiting for my last bloodwork to be released.

Still looking for anti inflammatory compounds backed by studies for immune suppression. Most I can find I have to buy from an online medical journal/library.

[Ccdiesel]

I've found doses anywhere between 350 to 500 mg per week works just fine. If you are planning on cycling in trt maybe take the methotrexate or whatever else when off cycle only and then see if the cycle by itself has you covered while you are on high test.

I would not add in HGH or any other drugs to try and bridge an immunosuppressant effect between cycles as the above poster mentioned. That's asking for all kinda of trouble for many different reasons. If cycling treats your symptoms then great, but use a legitimate medication or nothing in between cycles (other than regular TRT dose of course).

I would not take methotrexate unless there was no other option and definitely not while cycling or trt as it is toxic by itself. Not sustainable which is why I'm looking for another therapy among other reasons.

Hgh, not sure but I would think is inflammatory. I have not looked into that aspect yet though.

[MODO]

I would not take methotrexate unless there was no other option and definitely not while cycling or trt as it is toxic by itself. Not sustainable which is why I'm looking for another therapy among other reasons. Hgh, not sure but I would think is inflammatory. I have not looked into that aspect yet though.

Maybe blasting will be enough to help you. When I stopped cycle it took months for the psoriasis to start again and years for it to fully return. I know they are different diseases, but maybe there is a cycle frequency that can work in a similar way for you.

[Ccdiesel]

Maybe blasting will be enough to help you. When I stopped cycle it took months for the psoriasis to start again and years for it to fully return. I know they are different diseases, but maybe there is a cycle frequency that can work in a similar way for you.

Different symptoms but both very similar diseases both working off the immune system. I would expect similar results but we will see. Thanks for the input. Definitely helps.

[MODO]

Different symptoms but both very similar diseases both working off the immune system. I would expect similar results but we will see. Thanks for the input. Definitely helps.

anytime!