Doctor wants to put me on TRT 75mg x2 month

[azrairc]

About 2 years ago I had test levels in the low 300-400 but never got prescribed anything. Recently I got new insurance and decided to get it check and it was in the 250-300 range a few times. So over a couple years I have about 8 tests confirming my low test, this doctor says it's time to raise it at least to 400 and perhaps hire depending on how I respond/feel. He has prescribed 75mg of injectable test bi monthly which seems low to me but I am not exactly going to demand how to be treated. And yes, I have tried the vitamin D, ZMA, aspartic acid, basically all the bro/natural stuff to try over the last couple years to raise test which didn't really do much but vitamin D did raise it a little. I'm skeptical as of if the dose is high enough to notice any energy/sex drive differences but at the same time it's low enough to the point that I'm not worried about potential side affects, estrogen, etc. Just wanted to get some of your opinions of if it's even worth going on at a low dosage at my age.

[frawnz]

It's too long of a time between shots. I had a similar situation when I first started with an endo (100mg every 14 days). I brought in a chart showing the life cycle of test C in the body and asked him if that's why I felt like I was crashing every other week between shots. I think he got the message and we went to weekly. 400 is exactly stellar for a total T target goal, but it would help if we knew your other numbers as well.

[azrairc]

It's too long of a time between shots. I had a similar situation when I first started with an endo (100mg every 14 days). I brought in a chart showing the life cycle of test C in the body and asked him if that's why I felt like I was crashing every other week between shots. I think he got the message and we went to weekly. 400 is exactly stellar for a total T target goal, but it would help if we knew your other numbers as well.

Everything else came in normal, I'm not even sure free test was measured on my recent blood work or estrogren but I got a full metabolic panel which has lots of levels, normal lh, fsh, prolactin

also I'm interested in the chart, but with my luck the doctor would try to switch me from injections to patches or gel lol... i insisted on injections but this doctor was nice enough to give me the option

[frawnz]

You can do a google search of "testosterone cypionate chart" to find this exact chart and its reference material. It's the exact one I used.

[azrairc]

You can do a google search of "testosterone cypionate chart" to find this exact chart and its reference material. It's the exact one I used.

so is there any chance I could inject like 35/weekly? and I've never gotten a script before. Do they only give you enough for each month, ie I'd only get a very small amount when I get my scripted filled?

[bassmeet]

Usually they will prescribe a 10ml bottle... The best advice I can give is no more than 1 week between injections. Then blood work, blood work, blood work. Until you find levels that makes you feel good. Be mindful of e-2 levels when checking blood work and avoid an AI even if it means running a little lower. Example: I'd rather be 700 with no AI then 800 and have to take one. There are some very very knowledgable guys on here that have helped me a ton... 2sox, kelkel always give good sound advice.

[bassmeet]

And based on the pic of frawnz back spread and awesome ink. I'd do anything he says!!! haha.

[azrairc]

Usually they will prescribe a 10ml bottle... The best advice I can give is no more than 1 week between injections. Then blood work, blood work, blood work. Until you find levels that makes you feel good. Be mindful of e-2 levels when checking blood work and avoid an AI even if it means running a little lower. Example: I'd rather be 700 with no AI then 800 and have to take one. There are some very very knowledgable guys on here that have helped me a ton... 2sox, kelkel always give good sound advice.

why would you need an AI in the normal range?

[bassmeet]

As your test levels increase your E-2 levels can increase. If they increase too much then you can have some unwanted side effects, and although your test levels will be higher you may not feel good because your E levels are too high.

[bullshark99]

Az,

what you need to realize if you do not already is there is no such thing as Testosterone supplementation, per say. Many Drs beleive (as do people) that when you inject Exg Tes that you are adding it on top or in addition to your naturel levels. The reality of it is, your body stops producing its own Testosterone and relies soley on what you are putting into it. So, if you inject 75mgs twice per month, you will be in a real shitty place because your body will not be producing any (shut down state) and will be functioning on next to nothing! You will feel worse after awile than you do now!
Minimium, I have heard of is basically 100mgs per week. Im sure some people do even less but that is very uncommon. A very standard/vanilla protocol would be to inject 50 mgs, twice per week. After 6-8 weeks get blood work done and see where you fall and how you feel. If needed, you can adjust accordingly from there. If you ask your accountant if the interest on your home is deductable and if he doesnt know the answer, you could safely assume the man doesnt know the first thing about taxes. that is the simpliest of simple regarding taxes. Same thing with your Dr, anyone that would recommend 75mgs twice a month obviously does not understand hormones, simpliest of simple!!!!
Do yourself a favor and run like hell from him and find someone who is qualified in hormones. Also, read up here and learn, you will laugh at yourself for asking this question once you have a better understanding of how it all works. Good luck

[azrairc]

As your test levels increase your E-2 levels can increase. If they increase too much then you can have some unwanted side effects, and although your test levels will be higher you may not feel good because your E levels are too high.

I mean I know test increases estrogen but not much else, I assumed it wouldn't be much but I'm sure it varies from person to person and dosage has a effect... um I should of had it tested, you would think an endo would wherewithal to test it before I started.

[bullshark99]

another good example to hit the highway running

[azrairc]

hark99;6836105]another good example to hit the highway running[/QUOTE]

What you said can't be totally true. I mean I'm not the first one who has walked in there for trt ? Anyways I have no other options for a endo. I've been to one in the area who was no help and wasn't cover ed by my insurance. I live in a rural area, I drive an hour to get to this one. Do bone or urologist.know more about trt?

[bullshark99]

AZ,

Im not a Dr nor am I pretending to be one but if you feel what I said is not true about being "shut down" only one way to find out. Follow this quakes recommendation with 75 mgs twice a month, do this for 3 months then go get tested 2 weks after your last shot, my guess is that you will hardly register any significant testosterone. When your reading is say 85, you will see this Doc is uninformed. i hope it doesnt come down to learning the hard way for your sake....

[bullshark99]

I see that you are young, dont know how your money situation is but if you can swing it, try the board sponsors, you will atleast be in good hands.

[bassmeet]

Bullshark makes a lot of really good points. Each persons body is different I feel best at 750-800 and estrogen at around 20. When I first started my test was over 900 and estrogen was non-existant, and I felt crappy and had a ton of joint pain because I was taking too much AI. The guys on this board are great an gave me the knowledge to ask the right questions to my doc. Without their help I would still be guessing and would still be under the WRONG impression that more/higher is better. Bullsharks vanilla recommendation is a good place to start.

[2Sox]

Az,

what you need to realize if you do not already is there is no such thing as Testosterone supplementation, per say. Many Drs beleive (as do people) that when you inject Exg Tes that you are adding it on top or in addition to your naturel levels. The reality of it is, your body stops producing its own Testosterone and relies soley on what you are putting into it. So, if you inject 75mgs twice per month, you will be in a real shitty place because your body will not be producing any (shut down state) and will be functioning on next to nothing! You will feel worse after awile than you do now!
Minimium, I have heard of is basically 100mgs per week. Im sure some people do even less but that is very uncommon. A very standard/vanilla protocol would be to inject 50 mgs, twice per week. After 6-8 weeks get blood work done and see where you fall and how you feel. If needed, you can adjust accordingly from there. If you ask your accountant if the interest on your home is deductable and if he doesnt know the answer, you could safely assume the man doesnt know the first thing about taxes. that is the simpliest of simple regarding taxes. Same thing with your Dr, anyone that would recommend 75mgs twice a month obviously does not understand hormones, simpliest of simple!!!!
Do yourself a favor and run like hell from him and find someone who is qualified in hormones. Also, read up here and learn, you will laugh at yourself for asking this question once you have a better understanding of how it all works. Good luck

Azrairc,
Listen to what Bullshark says. What he says couldn't be clearer and more on the mark. Many of us here have been where you are - with an exceedingly INCOMPETENT doctor and we just couldn't bring ourselves to believe he didn't know what he was doing. Realize this: Doctors are just normal people who happen to practice medicine. Just like all people, some can be brilliant and others can be ignorant dolts (who very often do a very good job of sounding like they know what they are doing to cover up for their lack of skills and knowledge.)

You have two very clear choices: You either find a new doctor, or get working very fast in educating the one you have now. It's your body and your life. Educate yourself and tell him about what you learn. I don't want to patronize but I will say this: In the final analysis, a doctor-patient relationship is a partnership in finding a path to YOUR health and well being. Your doctor is a human being just like you. It's to your benefit to speak honestly with him. If you don't like what he is proposing, it's your responsibility to courteously tell him so and to suggest other treatments.

[azrairc]

Okay, let me step back and say I have heard what bullshark said in his previous posts and it was a legit concern to me, you guys have posted a lot of good info and I appreciate it and I admitted am not aware of how exactly it works. So you are saying that injecting testosterone stops ALL the bodies production at any dose of injectable testosterone? If that's true I have no clue how the practicing office hasn't realized their mistake from others on TRT. My best assumption was that must only be some of the cases. SO I assumed adding testosterone would be going on top of whatever you have, or that it may decrease your natural testosterone to some degree but not to zero. So if I start asking a doctor about these concerns and he says other patients receiving the same treatment raised their levels what leg do I have to stand on? Or how would it be possible that they successfully treat other peeople?

[azrairc]

I see that you are young, dont know how your money situation is but if you can swing it, try the board sponsors, you will atleast be in good hands.

Might be interested in this but I don't want to waste money and not get treatment. I did email one of those sites about a year ago and they didn't even contact me back (Assumed because of my age). I could easily afford $200 a month. I've spent a thousand if not more on endo visits/blood tests over the past couple years for no treatment yet.

[bullshark99]

Azr,

Once again I am not a Dr so I'm not gonna pretend I am, alls I could tell you is from my personal experience and others here as well. When I started my journey I was shocked to find out how little some Drs knew and amazed that they would practice medicine in an area that they were clueless on. Does Exg Tes shut you down 100%' IDK? Does it shut you down 70-80%, I would submit to you yes! You will find a boatload of people here that will attest to that, myself included.
If you already have Low T, imagine what you would feel at with a 50% permanent decrease? Easier said than done but as young as you are you really need to find the root cause. Just proceed with caution, it's a big step.

[hawk14dl]

Azr, at 21 there are a number of things that should be checked out first. I'm no pro here but I'll list what I know.
First, do you have any past use or abuse of steroids, pro hormones, prescription painkillers, acetaminophen, or alcohol?

Second, tthyroid function should be checked prior to treatment at your age. This would include blood work and an mri.
Third, do you have any history of head/brain trauma and or testicular trauma/injury?

Once you have those eliminated, you should try a restart protocol. At your age your endocrine system may recover. Trt is for life, and if yoy can get back to normal without it you should

If the restart is unsuccessful, you would likely start trt.a more common protocol is once or twice a week. 50 to 75mg per injection. Not to mention hcg, and an ai if your blood work indicates its necessary

[azrairc]

Azr, at 21 there are a number of things that should be checked out first. I'm no pro here but I'll list what I know.
First, do you have any past use or abuse of steroids, pro hormones, prescription painkillers, acetaminophen, or alcohol?

Second, tthyroid function should be checked prior to treatment at your age. This would include blood work and an mri.
Third, do you have any history of head/brain trauma and or testicular trauma/injury?

Once you have those eliminated, you should try a restart protocol. At your age your endhrocrine system may recover. Trt is for life, and if yoy can get back to normal without it you should

If the restart is unsuccessful, you would likely start trt.a more common protocol is once or twice a week. 50 to 75mg per injection. Not to mention hcg, and an ai if your blood work indicates its necessary

ugghh this is so frustrating.. so far I have had ULTRASOUND of testicles = Normal. Chromosomes test = Normal. All THYROID BLOOD WORK = Normal

Several Metabolic panels = NORMAL

LH/FSH/Prolactin = Normal, Slightly elevated in one or two tests

Doctor has suggested a Puititary scan because I had slightly elevated prolactin over a year ago = I don't think it's necessarily.

I believe I read about HCG getting a certain hormone up LH or FSH maybe? to stimulate more production of test. But my levels are normal. No drinking/pain pills/roids/testicular damage in the past.

Can anyone accredit to the sponsors? I will drive down to North Carolina if they will really handle this right.. I am sick of trying to find a decent doctor

[hawk14dl]

To answer your question, I am with low test. com. They have been very good so far. You will likely have a hard time getting on with them, as they have a soft age policy of 30 years old. I got on at 28 because they checked with my dr and he agreed to treat me.

Hcg does, among other things mimic fsh/lh stimulating production. It does many other things and should be considered a necessary part of trt.

[azrairc]

To answer your question, I am with low test. com. They have been very good so far. You will likely have a hard time getting on with them, as they have a soft age policy of 30 years old. I got on at 28 because they checked with my dr and he agreed to treat me.

Hcg does, among other things mimic fsh/lh stimulating production. It does many other things and should be considered a necessary part of trt.

I have normal fsh and lh so would HCG still help me?

I'm in the process of getting all of my records together, I've been to 3 endos over the past 2 years. I have had extensive blood work, I'll actually post it here when I get it in the mail. My main reason for seeking treatment is the symptoms. Had I not had the symptoms starting 2 years ago I wouldn't even know my test levels. It includes the following.

-severel metabolic panels (normal)
-several lh/fsh/total testosterone/free test/bio test (normal to slightly elevated LH, normal fsh, low total test, normal free test, normal bio
-prolactin/vitamin D (high prolactin/normal prolactin/normal prolactin, Low Vit-D (since supplementation it has returned to normal)
-ultrasound of testicles (normal)
-chromosome test (normal)
-extensive testicular exam ("small testicles" according to doctor LOL)
-thyroid bloodwork (normal)
-adrenal bloodwork w/injection of endorphins (normal)
-igfs (normal)

[hawk14dl]

Yes, exogenous testosterone will halt your body's natural production. Your fsh and lh will go to 0. By using hcg the testes continue to produce (some) and will remain functional (sperm count, no risk of atrophy, etc). There's also something about external receptors but I don't know that much about it.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

I have normal fsh and lh so would HCG still help me?

I'm in the process of getting all of my records together, I've been to 3 endos over the past 2 years. I have had extensive blood work, I'll actually post it here when I get it in the mail. My main reason for seeking treatment is the symptoms. Had I not had the symptoms starting 2 years ago I wouldn't even know my test levels. It includes the following.

-severel metabolic panels (normal)
-several lh/fsh/total testosterone/free test/bio test (normal to slightly elevated LH, normal fsh, low total test, normal free test, normal bio
-prolactin/vitamin D (high prolactin/normal prolactin/normal prolactin, Low Vit-D (since supplementation it has returned to normal)
-ultrasound of testicles (normal)
-chromosome test (normal)
-extensive testicular exam ("small testicles" according to doctor LOL)
-thyroid bloodwork (normal)
-adrenal bloodwork w/injection of endorphins (normal)
-igfs (normal)

You posted in another post in another thread if I am not mistaken that your Test levels were 420 ? If this is true then you are producing Testosterone in and actually a little above the low end of normal from most labs ? You say you have spent $1000.00 There is a thread in this very section where a 21 year old the same age as you tried TRT and is now doing PCT and a high dose HCG restart ! Joenas007 is close to his screen name but he list his proticall and all his stats from beginning of PCT & HCG restart and he claims to be very happy ! You should look his thread up and contact him ! He has IMHO kept his E2 way low but at his own disgression ? His last stats were E2 of 10 and I have no idea why anyone would choose an E2 level of 10 when as much as 30 will have you safe and rock'in !

With a Test level of 420 IMHO you need to read his thread and not take as much AI and since you say you have never done AAS you would only boost your natural Test level and with Clomid you should feel a lot better IMHO if you are 420 Test level you probably don't feel like crap and I am courious how you got headed down the TRT path anyway ? All people are different and some feel good at 400 to 500 ? I feel like a mil tax free around 700 and 54 yrs young !

My DA Dr started me on 100 mg EOW and in 4 mths even at 50 mg every 3.5 days my E2 was 72 and that is a bitch ! So with my E2 18 I was ok and E2 at 26 I am even better as in bed and energy ? What are your symptoms to undertake a life long proticall of TRT ? You said you have been trying to find someone to treat you for 2 years and in your other thread your Test level has been different with various different blood work ?

It just doesn't look that bad to me for a young man that according to you had High 300 and into the 400 from 19 to 21 ? You may be a late bloomer ?

All things to consider ? ? ?

[azrairc]

You posted in another post in another thread if I am not mistaken that your Test levels were 420 ? If this is true then you are producing Testosterone in and actually a little above the low end of normal from most labs ? You say you have spent $1000.00 There is a thread in this very section where a 21 year old the same age as you tried TRT and is now doing PCT and a high dose HCG restart ! Joenas007 is close to his screen name but he list his proticall and all his stats from beginning of PCT & HCG restart and he claims to be very happy ! You should look his thread up and contact him ! He has IMHO kept his E2 way low but at his own disgression ? His last stats were E2 of 10 and I have no idea why anyone would choose an E2 level of 10 when as much as 30 will have you safe and rock'in !

With a Test level of 420 IMHO you need to read his thread and not take as much AI and since you say you have never done AAS you would only boost your natural Test level and with Clomid you should feel a lot better IMHO if you are 420 Test level you probably don't feel like crap and I am courious how you got headed down the TRT path anyway ? All people are different and some feel good at 400 to 500 ? I feel like a mil tax free around 700 and 54 yrs young !

My DA Dr started me on 100 mg EOW and in 4 mths even at 50 mg every 3.5 days my E2 was 72 and that is a bitch ! So with my E2 18 I was ok and E2 at 26 I am even better as in bed and energy ? What are your symptoms to undertake a life long proticall of TRT ? You said you have been trying to find someone to treat you for 2 years and in your other thread your Test level has been different with various different blood work ?

It just doesn't look that bad to me for a young man that according to you had High 300 and into the 400 from 19 to 21 ? You may be a late bloomer ?

All things to consider ? ? ?

let me reiterate, my HIGHEST level ever was 420 about a year ago, my most recent test indicates the lowest test I've ever had at 260.

I will contact the testosterone ad tomorrow during the day assuming they are probably closed now.