New to TRT and have some questions on my prescribed treatment.

[Houdiniact]

Lab Test Details
Date Lab Slip Notes / Comments
03/22/2014 N/A N/A
Lab Results
DHEAs Estradiol LH PSA T-Free T-Total T3 (Free)
427 25 4.7 0.7 76.0 449 3.3

Those are the results of my first lab test.

My prescription initially was for
Medication (From Prescription)
1
Hormone Program, Utilizing:
Testosterone (Testosterone Package) (3 Vials) 150mg/ml 2x/wk inject 0.5ml IM
2
Hormone Program, Utilizing:
HCG (Testosterone Package) (2 Vials X 5,000) 2 x 5,000 units 2x/wk inject 600iu SQ
3
Hormone Program, Utilizing:
Anastrozole (Testosterone Package) (30 Pills) 0.25mg 2x/wk take one cap

I have some questions and hopefully you guys can give me some good advice.

We ended up changing my script to lose the HCG and add in Clomiphene in its place. The reason for this was that I am only 29 and I want to have children in a few years it was recommended that I add the Clomiphene in with the above script however that was going to be $70 more per month on top of the $300 per month I am already spending. I didn't want to spend that much so they suggested to drop the HCG and take the clomiphene. Does anybody have an opinion on this and or advice. Should I keep this plan or drop the clomiphene and keep the HCG? which is better?

Also what do you think about this dosing in relation to my lab results. The labs were done at quest. Thanks Guys.

[2Sox]

Lab Test Details
Date Lab Slip Notes / Comments
03/22/2014 N/A N/A
Lab Results
DHEAs Estradiol LH PSA T-Free T-Total T3 (Free)
427 25 4.7 0.7 76.0 449 3.3

Those are the results of my first lab test.

My prescription initially was for
Medication (From Prescription)
1
Hormone Program, Utilizing:
Testosterone (Testosterone Package) (3 Vials) 150mg/ml 2x/wk inject 0.5ml IM
2
Hormone Program, Utilizing:
HCG (Testosterone Package) (2 Vials X 5,000) 2 x 5,000 units 2x/wk inject 600iu SQ
3
Hormone Program, Utilizing:
Anastrozole (Testosterone Package) (30 Pills) 0.25mg 2x/wk take one cap

I have some questions and hopefully you guys can give me some good advice.

We ended up changing my script to lose the HCG and add in Clomiphene in its place. The reason for this was that I am only 29 and I want to have children in a few years it was recommended that I add the Clomiphene in with the above script however that was going to be $70 more per month on top of the $300 per month I am already spending. I didn't want to spend that much so they suggested to drop the HCG and take the clomiphene. Does anybody have an opinion on this and or advice. Should I keep this plan or drop the clomiphene and keep the HCG? which is better?

Also what do you think about this dosing in relation to my lab results. The labs were done at quest. Thanks Guys.

I think the only thing you should drop is this doctor! Unless this guy walks on water, $370 per month for TRT is obscene.

An example: A 10mL vial of Testosterone Cypionate costs $42 with a coupon for CVS or Walgreens. A 5000iu vial of hCG costs about $23 overseas. Both will last you for a couple of months. You can get anastrozole from the site sponsor or overseas VERY cheaply too. I haven't bought Clomid yet, but do a search and see how much you can get it for. NO scripts are needed for any of it!

[Houdiniact]

While I agree it is expensive I know testosterone is not legal in the USA unless you have a prescription. I see here on this forum there is an add for a program like mine for 200 a month. That is definitely a huge cost savings. I may look into that route. I am still curious about the HCG vs Clomiphene. Is one better than the other, are both needed??? or maybe neither???

[ngtmarpete]

I personally use the $200 program you are referring to and am happy with it. I'm currently on your original Test program.

[theseus]

you need to use another doctor. he isn't really know much about TRT

the one thing in your combination that stop your sperm production is the exogenous testosterone. not the HCG

HCG is used in fertility treatment to give you more sperm counts, clomiphene is also used in that sense. HCG will maintain the size of your testicles while you are on TRT, clomiphene won't do that for you.

Swapping HCG to clomiphene will not dramatically change your sperm count, in fact, likely to be less effective in increasing sperm count.

alternative is to have the TRT and when you want to have children, come off it and have a PCT. then back to TRT after.

[2Sox]

you need to use another doctor. he isn't really know much about TRT

the one thing in your combination that stop your sperm production is the exogenous testosterone. not the HCG

HCG is used in fertility treatment to give you more sperm counts, clomiphene is also used in that sense. HCG will maintain the size of your testicles while you are on TRT, clomiphene won't do that for you.

Swapping HCG to clomiphene will not dramatically change your sperm count, in fact, likely to be less effective in increasing sperm count.

alternative is to have the TRT and when you want to have children, come off it and have a PCT. then back to TRT after.

I believe much of what you wrote here is incorrect. hCG mainly stimulates the Leydig cells to produce testosterone. There seems to be some effect on sperm production as well - but this is not the primary reason for taking it. Sperm is produced in the Sertoli cells. In order to stimulate these cells, one needs to take FSH or hMG. From my knowledge, clomid works primarily on Testosterone production and only secondarily on sperm production - similar to hCG.

However to answer your original question, it's my understanding that both have been used successfully to increase fertility. Many guys on this forum have been able to conceive on hCG alone.

[Beethoven]

Something you may want to read:

Stimulation of Sperm Production by Human Chorionic Gonadotropin after Prolonged Gonadotropin Suppression in Normal Men - MATSUMOTO - 2013 - Journal of Andrology - Wiley Online Library

[2Sox]

Something you may want to read:

Stimulation of Sperm Production by Human Chorionic Gonadotropin after Prolonged Gonadotropin Suppression in Normal Men - MATSUMOTO - 2013 - Journal of Andrology - Wiley Online Library

Thanks. Good read.

Seems to bear out what I said

[Low Testosterone]

The average cost of TRT in the U.S. is around $400-$600 per month depending on what you do. Is that expensive? Yes. More expensive than it should be? Maybe. Start adding in HGH treatment and all the rest and you're over $1000 a month.

[Houdiniact]

The average cost of TRT in the U.S. is around $400-$600 per month depending on what you do. Is that expensive? Yes. More expensive than it should be? Maybe. Start adding in HGH treatment and all the rest and you're over $1000 a month.

I am still confused on the Clomiphene vs HCG. I have been reading and researching but someone that has dealt with this and has first had knowledge or opinion would really help. The stuff I am finding just isn't clear cut. I have found positives and negatives in relation to both but not when you are trying to decide between them.

[sfgiantsfan55]

i get clomid 25 mg tabs one month supply 23 bucks , and thats without any insurance (my insurance wont cover it)..could get hcg for about 25 a month at a compounding pharmacy

[Houdiniact]

How do you go to a pharmacy for these things? You need a prescription from a doctor but what if you GP doesn't want to prescribe this stuff or what if they do not seem up to date on the info that is available? How do you guys manage these things? Technically I have a prescription through the company I am getting my trt from so is there a way to just get my prescription from them??

[Houdiniact]

Legally do they have to give it to me??

[APIs]

I am still confused on the Clomiphene vs HCG. I have been reading and researching but someone that has dealt with this and has first had knowledge or opinion would really help. The stuff I am finding just isn't clear cut. I have found positives and negatives in relation to both but not when you are trying to decide between them.

If you properly researched this site there would be no confusion on the matter. To maintain properly functioning testes (& possibly fertility) you need to include HCG in your protocol...

[Houdiniact]

If you properly researched this site there would be no confusion on the matter. To maintain properly functioning testes (& possibly fertility) you need to include HCG in your protocol...

Not true but I am getting conflicting information from all sources and everyone that speaks up has a different opinion. I appreciate your info very much though. My question is one that I have never seen asked or answered anywhere. I was recommended by the company giving me my trt to take out HCG and replace with Clomiphene for the very reason of fertility in the future. That is my question to the forums. Now originally they prescribed me HCG and said I should add in clomiphene but clomiphene was $70 per month more than the 300 per month package price. That is outside my budget. So they said drop the HCG and add clomiphene. Do you see where I am coming from now?? I have been reading this site and others and listening to people give advice and ALL OF IT contradicts everything else. I just want to know Clomiphene or HCG and why???

[sfgiantsfan55]

How do you go to a pharmacy for these things? You need a prescription from a doctor but what if you GP doesn't want to prescribe this stuff or what if they do not seem up to date on the info that is available? How do you guys manage these things? Technically I have a prescription through the company I am getting my trt from so is there a way to just get my prescription from them??

my test dr sent me straight to that compounding pharmacy

[2Sox]

Not true but I am getting conflicting information from all sources and everyone that speaks up has a different opinion. I appreciate your info very much though. My question is one that I have never seen asked or answered anywhere. I was recommended by the company giving me my trt to take out HCG and replace with Clomiphene for the very reason of fertility in the future. That is my question to the forums. Now originally they prescribed me HCG and said I should add in clomiphene but clomiphene was $70 per month more than the 300 per month package price. That is outside my budget. So they said drop the HCG and add clomiphene. Do you see where I am coming from now?? I have been reading this site and others and listening to people give advice and ALL OF IT contradicts everything else. I just want to know Clomiphene or HCG and why???

According to the information you were given, you can go with either one. Whatever you feel comfortable with and can afford. I would try hCG first because it is VERY cheap and you can get it overseas without a prescription. Many on this forum do.

[APIs]

Not true but I am getting conflicting information from all sources and everyone that speaks up has a different opinion. I appreciate your info very much though. My question is one that I have never seen asked or answered anywhere. I was recommended by the company giving me my trt to take out HCG and replace with Clomiphene for the very reason of fertility in the future. That is my question to the forums. Now originally they prescribed me HCG and said I should add in clomiphene but clomiphene was $70 per month more than the 300 per month package price. That is outside my budget. So they said drop the HCG and add clomiphene. Do you see where I am coming from now?? I have been reading this site and others and listening to people give advice and ALL OF IT contradicts everything else. I just want to know Clomiphene or HCG and why???

Use of HCG in conjunction with Test is standard treatment for TRT (it's written all over this site). I've personally never heard of adding Clomiphene on top of HCG. Unless there's some new study out on this? Regardless, it doesn't sound like your Doc is cutting-edge on this anyway as others have suggested...

[Houdiniact]

Use of HCG in conjunction with Test is standard treatment for TRT (it's written all over this site). I've personally never heard of adding Clomiphene on top of HCG. Unless there's some new study out on this? Regardless, it doesn't sound like your Doc is cutting-edge on this anyway as others have suggested...

Thank you very much for a solid answer. I appreciate it. I am going to start looking for other options.

[sickdog]

I would just like to thank all of you guy's that commented on this thread. My dr. has me on TRT and tells me I need nothing else. I am learning from this site and can see I need to add HCG.

[j2048b]

OR combine that hcg and clomid to produce what is called HMG perhaps, as from my understand hmg is a combo of hcg and clomid and boy TRUST ME u will get a chick prego running that hcg/clomid stack...just ask my wife and our 6 month old...

[Chicagotarsier]

Two things I would like to add.

Ask your doctor for the prescription of your meds. If he refuses go to your pharmacy that you know can and will fill your prescription (medicine is on the shelf) and have them call your doctor office for the prescription. If they call and the office refuses make sure they get the name of the person in office that refuses. Then go back to your doctor office and request in writing why they refuse to give you a prescription for your prescription.

This is where the legal line is crossed. If you did not sign a form that submits you to them buying and supplying your medicines to you it breaks several laws. Babcock Lawyers out of Louisiana USA specialize in this stuff and I am sure they are not the only one.

Why do doctors refuse? 2 reasons. 1. they get kickbacks from the place they direct you. 2. They want to keep it in house so they can charge you for doing the pin. Your life, your freedom, your duty to stand up for yourself.

Second item is if you went to a doctor and you do not have the answers to all your questions on the medicines he prescribed you and is making you buy from his source...wth is his actual purpose? My 2 cents. My doctor had me all set up to pin me three times a week in his office. I said....with all due respect I will pin at home. He blew me off and tried to set appointments when I got out to the nurses stand. I then said tot he nurse...I know you are not at fault. The doctor and I understand I will be doing the administering of this at home. Please verify and set this up accordingly. Five minutes later I had my prescript for the pharma and was on my way.

[2Sox]

Two things I would like to add.

Ask your doctor for the prescription of your meds. If he refuses go to your pharmacy that you know can and will fill your prescription (medicine is on the shelf) and have them call your doctor office for the prescription. If they call and the office refuses make sure they get the name of the person in office that refuses. Then go back to your doctor office and request in writing why they refuse to give you a prescription for your prescription.

This is where the legal line is crossed. If you did not sign a form that submits you to them buying and supplying your medicines to you it breaks several laws. Babcock Lawyers out of Louisiana USA specialize in this stuff and I am sure they are not the only one.

Why do doctors refuse? 2 reasons. 1. they get kickbacks from the place they direct you. 2. They want to keep it in house so they can charge you for doing the pin. Your life, your freedom, your duty to stand up for yourself.

Second item is if you went to a doctor and you do not have the answers to all your questions on the medicines he prescribed you and is making you buy from his source...wth is his actual purpose? My 2 cents. My doctor had me all set up to pin me three times a week in his office. I said....with all due respect I will pin at home. He blew me off and tried to set appointments when I got out to the nurses stand. I then said tot he nurse...I know you are not at fault. The doctor and I understand I will be doing the administering of this at home. Please verify and set this up accordingly. Five minutes later I had my prescript for the pharma and was on my way.

To my knowledge, since July, the FDA does no longer permit doctors to stock Testosterone Cypionate in their offices for administration. They MUST write a script for it. (The can get around this and say that they won't write unless the patient comes in for an injection, but I'd imagine they can get into deep shite for this.) Mentioning the FDA ruling in a doctor's office might make for people doing things for you with great speed.