Something ain't right...

[The_Crawfish]

New guy here, and have been reading a lot on here for the last couple of days. Awesome site y'all have here! I'll try to be as short/sweet as possible.

Started hitting the gym and trying to get back in shape in November of '12, plugged along and made some decent progress, but something just wasn't right. As hard as I was working and had gotten my diet on track, I just wasn't seeing the results I felt I should've been. Searched around for a doc (I never go to the doc), and found one that some folks recommended. Turns out, I had low T. Started injecting 1/2ml cyp every week back in September (2013). Went for a checkup in Dec and my BW showed my total test went from 180ish to upper 500's. Knowing what i know now, after reading on here, I should've gotten free test checked, but I didn't. Fast forward to now...for the last week or so, I've been pretty lethargic, couldn't care less if I get laid, moody, tired, and my weight loss has ceased to exist (actually put on a couple of pounds). Planning on going back to the doc monday and ask him for blood work...problem is, he doesn't seem to be up to date on all the ins and outs of trt, BUT he seems to be willing to learn and actually took my advice when he wanted me to inject once a month. I need to know what all to ask him as far as BW is concerned, and I'm gonna have to give him suggestions depending on the outcome of the tests.
Thanks for the help in advance!

Stats:
Height:6'
Weight: 290 in Nov '12, now 255
Age: 35

[Rock Chalk]

Read the stickies....everything you need is posted in there.

[FapOLantern]

did you also test your thyroid? don`t get low T tunnel vision, symptoms are the same, and thyroid does, in fact, cause low t

[The_Crawfish]

Read the stickies....everything you need is posted in there.

I read through the vast majority of it...it's like a system overload and some of it's over my head. I was hoping to get a little bit more specific info.

[The_Crawfish]

did you also test your thyroid? don`t get low T tunnel vision, symptoms are the same, and thyroid does, in fact, cause low t

Yes...that is one thing I know he did initially test, he said that wasn't the issue.

[BallSak]

Yes...that is one thing I know he did initially test, he said that wasn't the issue.

Post your thyroid labs and we will help. Good chance your doc doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

[The_Crawfish]

Post your thyroid labs and we will help. Good chance your doc doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

Love the name man! haha
I'll post all of my labs from my first test back in Sept, (before I started trt) since I don't know what's important and what's not. * marks the tests that were out of the ref range.

*Testosterone Total 186.7, ref range:249-836
EST Glomerular Rate: >90, r.r.>90
Sodium: 142 r.r. 135-148
Potassium: 4.3 r.r 3.3-5.1
Chloride: 103 r.r 100-112
Carbon Dioxide: 27 r.r. 21-32
Anion Gap: 12 r.r. 0-15
Glucose: 91 r.r. 70-120
Blood Urea Nitrogen: 13 r.r.6-19
Creatinine: 0.9 r.r. 0.9-1.5
Protein, Total: 7.4 r.r. 6.0-8.4
Albumin: 4.8 r.r.3.2-5.2
Globulin:2.6 r.r G/DL (????)
*Albumin/Globulin Ratio 1.9 r.r. 1.1-1.8
Calcium, Total: 9.7 r.r. 8.4-10.7
Bilirubin, Total: 0.3 r.r. 0-1
SGOT (AST): 16 r.r. 0-37
SGPT (ALT): 29 r.r. 0-40
Alkaline Phosphatase, Total: 71 r.r.39-117
Osmolality (calc): 283 r.r 282-300
White Blood Cell: 6.8 r.r 5-10
*Red Blood Cell: 5.57 Ref Range: 4.2-5.4
*Hemoglobin: 16.5 Ref Range: 12-16
Hematocrit: 49.7 r.r. 42-52
Mean Cell Volume: 89.2 r.r. 82-95
Mean Cell HGB: 29.6 r.r. 27-31
Platelet Count: 240 r.r.150-450
*Mean Platelet Volume: 12.1 Ref Range 7.2-11.1
Triglycerides: 201 r.r.46-226
Cholesterol: 155 r.r. 125-200
Choleserol/HDL ratio: 4.56 r.r. 3.43-5
*HDL Cholesterol: 34 Ref Range 40-120
Lipoprotein LDL: 81 r.r. 0-100
Thyroid Stimulating Hormone: 1.63 r.r. 0.3-4

[FapOLantern]

Love the name man! haha
I'll post all of my labs from my first test back in Sept, (before I started trt) since I don't know what's important and what's not. * marks the tests that were out of the ref range.

Edit your post with ALL ranges, because being in range means nothing. Generally TSH range is 1-5, when 3 is already a strong indicator of hypo.

You should have Free T3, Free T4 and reverse T3 tested for a complete scan of your thyroid, sometimes TSH may not show problems but you do indeed have a deficiency. Also test for TPO and TgAB, in case you have hashimoto's, which is an autoimmune thyroid disease, leading to feeling sometimes hypo and sometimes hyperthyroid.

If you don't wanna wait/ are low on funds, do this: for the next three days, as soon as you wake up, don't talk, don't leave the bed, don't do anything. Take your oral temp and write it down. If it's 97.3 F or lower it is definitely a problem indicator.

Do you feel most tired about 4-5 pm?

[The_Crawfish]

Edit your post with ALL ranges, because being in range means nothing. Generally TSH range is 1-5, when 3 is already a strong indicator of hypo.

You should have Free T3, Free T4 and reverse T3 tested for a complete scan of your thyroid, sometimes TSH may not show problems but you do indeed have a deficiency. Also test for TPO and TgAB, in case you have hashimoto's, which is an autoimmune thyroid disease, leading to feeling sometimes hypo and sometimes hyperthyroid.

If you don't wanna wait/ are low on funds, do this: for the next three days, as soon as you wake up, don't talk, don't leave the bed, don't do anything. Take your oral temp and write it down. If it's 97.3 F or lower it is definitely a problem indicator.

Do you feel most tired about 4-5 pm?

Edited with the ranges. Money is not a problem, so I will be going this week as long as I can figure out what to ask him. I don't mind doing the temp thing also if you think it's necessary.
4-5 is gym time, my tired time kicks in around 7:30-8ish. Under normal conditions, I don't start thinking about bed until after 10:30ish, but it's mainly the laziness I feel all throughout the day that concerns me.

[BallSak]

Edit your post with ALL ranges, because being in range means nothing. Generally TSH range is 1-5, when 3 is already a strong indicator of hypo.

You should have Free T3, Free T4 and reverse T3 tested for a complete scan of your thyroid, sometimes TSH may not show problems but you do indeed have a deficiency. Also test for TPO and TgAB, in case you have hashimoto's, which is an autoimmune thyroid disease, leading to feeling sometimes hypo and sometimes hyperthyroid.

If you don't wanna wait/ are low on funds, do this: for the next three days, as soon as you wake up, don't talk, don't leave the bed, don't do anything. Take your oral temp and write it down. If it's 97.3 F or lower it is definitely a problem indicator.

Do you feel most tired about 4-5 pm?

Do what FAP said. Good advice. Free T3 is the biggest indicator. Optimal thyroid will have T3 between 3.5-4.2. That's what you want.

While your at it, get some cortisol labs.

[The_Crawfish]

Would thyroid issues explain the hard time losing weight/burning fat? I've been on a 2000kcal diet with a 40p/30/30 macro split, along with weight training plus cardio 4 days a week, and have actually gained a few pounds in the last couple of weeks.

[BallSak]

Absolutely. I highly suggest cycling carbs for fat loss.

[kelkel]

Good advice above. Fap is spot on with his thyroid advice. A more modern range is .3 - 3.0 and yes, your TSH is great but it's a weak indicator of thyroid health. You may still have sub-clinical hypothryoidism.

Use the second BW list in the Finding A Doc Sticky.

[The_Crawfish]

Thank y'all for the help so far! If it turns out that my low t was caused by a different issue, am I still going to be injecting test for the rest of my life since I've already started the treatment for the last 7 months?

[The_Crawfish]

Anybody have any dealings with or thoughts on optimalhormonetherapy dot kom?? Their website says they are A4M certified, along with other certs, and they have a clinic not too far from me.

[The_Crawfish]

A little update...
Found a different doctor in a small town up the road who is A4M cert (among other certs), so I decided to give him a shot. Saw him yesterday and was impressed. All of the things I had planned to bring up w/ y'alls advice, he brought up before I could. One of the first things he asked me, is if i snore a lot...I'm thinking WTF does that have to do with anything. He then goes on to tell me how cortisol works, and how sleep apnea has such a profound affect on hormones. Long story short, he ordered more BW (nurse even commented before the doc came in about how much he loves BW), and wanted to run tests on all the stuff y'all mentioned, plus a few. Also told me (jokingly) that he didn't wanna see me back until I've had a sleep test done, so the initial appointment is scheduled for Monday. Should have the BW results mid-next week, and I'll let y'all know how it comes out.

[The_Crawfish]

Got a call from the dr office Wednesday saying everything was "normal" with my BW. Had them mail them to me, and was hoping they would've been here by now. No such luck...will report back when I get the numbers.

[The_Crawfish]

Also...have y'all heard of Omega Labs? Supposedly that's who does their testing

[The_Crawfish]

FYI, I did the BW on a thurs morning. I usually do my pin on Wed night, but skipped it knowing the BW was coming.

Total Test-355 (300-1080)
Free Test-94 (47-244)
% Free Test-2.7 (1.6-2.9)
SHBG-13 (11-80)
LH-0.1 (1.7-8.6)
T3 Free-3.3 (2.4-4.2)
TSH-1.58 (0.3-4)
T4 Free-1.1 (0.8-1.7)
Estrodiol-20.6 (18-67)

Other than the LH, every thing is "in range". Have no idea why the cortisol wasn't done, since that was one of the main things he talked about during my visit.

[BallSak]

Your thyroid looks like its ok. Need to try again for a cortisol test. Consider injecting twice a week rather than once. Sounds like your blood work is 7-8 days post injection which isn't a very good indicator of where you were living throughout the week. 4 days post injection is generally a good time for bloodwork in my opinion.

[The_Crawfish]

what's up with the LH being low?? Is it not a big deal?
What's the benefits of twice a week? I'm assuming that with my BW i'm not in need of AI, but what about HCG, is there an indicator of that??

[BallSak]

LH is low because you are taking exogenous testosterone. No big deal. LH is sent from the pituitary to signal your body to produce testosterone naturally. When you take in testosterone your pituitary senses it and doesn't produce LH.

Benefits of 2X per week is more stable testosterone levels without dramatic peaks and troughs.

Look through the stickies at the top of the forum. There's a good one on HCG, but read them all, they are very beneficial.

[The_Crawfish]

Thank you! I'll look into the info and the twice weekly injections. I'd still like to know why I'm low-T at 35 yoa...I'm guessing because my past fat-assedness.

[The_Crawfish]

Got my results last week from my sleep study, and I was diagnosed with moderate sleep apnea. Said I stopped breathing over 20 times/hour.
Also got my labwork (saliva) back from zrt labs
DHEAS 6.3 (2-23, age dependent) but it shows just below low on the chart
Cortisol morning 5.8 (3.7-9.5)
Cortisol noon 0.9 (1.2-3.0)
Cortisol evening 0.3 (0.6-1.9)
Cortisol night 0.2 (0.4-1.0)

Thoughts??

[The_Crawfish]

any ideas on why cortisol and dhea could be low?

[Black]

Thank you! I'll look into the info and the twice weekly injections. I'd still like to know why I'm low-T at 35 yoa...I'm guessing because my past fat-assedness.

In had low test at 21 (could've been low even younger, but it was the first time testosterone was hecked) years old, but it wasn't actually "diagnosed" until I was 27 (6+ years of SSRIs trying to "cure" me). I had never taken anything hormonal or steroids prior to starting TRT. There is really no way of telling why I was low at such a young age. As much as I would've liked treatment sooner, I couldn't be happier that I've finally taken care of those symptoms.

[kelkel]

any ideas on why cortisol and dhea could be low?

Adrenal issues / fatigue maybe. Is there a lot of stress in your life currently? Physically, emotionally, etc...

[The_Crawfish]

Adrenal issues / fatigue maybe. Is there a lot of stress in your life currently? Physically, emotionally, etc...

No stress to speak of...my life is pretty laid back most of the time and I don't really stress about much. Physically, nothing besides my workouts 4-5 times a week and tapping on the wife every time she lets me. What's the chances that it's related to the sleep apnea??