Without getting into too much detail, what could cause bloat if you're e2 is low, and I mean (8.7, REF: 7.6 - 42.6). Let's say you are running low (150mg a week test-e/week) ( 2 x 75 mg). I suspect it might be related to cortisol or the adrenal glands (adrenal fatigue), and aldosterone.
Any thoughts on this? I'm holding water in my face and body similar to high e2 symptoms, but my e2 is currently at the crash level.
And now for the rambling...
I have done 4 cycles in the past, all test-e (4-500 mg/week), some kick started with tbol and all were 12-16 weeks long, one was 20 weeks long. I ran these cycles between 2006-2009. I probably made stupid mistakes on these cycles, but I always recovered and I NEVER had any issues like I did with this one.
I recently had major knee surgery, and decided that 4-6 weeks afterwards I would run some deca/test to assist me in getting up to speed again, and to ensure that I wouldn't have issues when returning to my sport. This is the one purpose where the cycle seemed to have done it’s job. My knee and supporting musculature healed very quickly…
Before doing the cycle all my blood work was within range, and I was functioning normally, my TT was high 500's.
Stats:
Age: 31
Height: 6'4
Weight: 220
BF: 15%
Planned Cycle:
Weeks 1-4: Tbol kick starter 40 mg/day
Weeks 1-8: Deca Durabolin (250 mg/week)
Weeks 1-12: Test-E (300 mg/week)
Aromasin: 12 mg EOD or as needed
Actual Cycle
Weeks 1-3: Tbol 40 mg/day (short due to stomach issues)
Weels 1-2: Deca Durabolin (250 mg) stopped due to DD
Weeks 1-6: (300 mg Test-e) lowered due to other sides (more on that below)
Weeks 4-6 (200 mg Test-e)
Weeks 6-9 (150 mg Test-e)
...Fail
In the beginning it was great, the tbol was giving some nice gains, and the libido was good. That was until the Deca got me. Immediately after it got me, I dropped it. I began having stomach issues with the tbol presumably, so I dropped that as well. I decided to just cruise on test-e for a little longer. It took a while for the Deca d*** feeling to go away, probably 4-5 weeks after the last shot. The whole time I was tinkering with my e2 levels. Increasing and decreasing aromasin, trying to find the "sweet spot." For some of the weeks I was miserable, tired, unmotivated, fatigued, low libido. I thought it was the e2. After running blood work the e2 came back very low but with reference range (11.7 REF: 7.6 - 42.6). That was clearly an e2 crash. Upon cessasation of Aromasin for 5 days, the libido and wood returned, and the bloodword on that very day was (25.4 REF: 7.6 - 42.6). HOWEVER, my face was bloated, but I don't believe the face bloat was E2 related. (More of this below). And by the way, in case anyone is thinking prolactin, it was (6.0 REF 4.0 - 15.2)
I of course had read many threads saying aromasin was always underdosed and 25 mg a day wasn't too much to run. That number is while on Test-e @ 200 mg, and after 4 days of Aromasin @ 25 mg ED. I dropped the dose to 12 mg ED, took 2 days off, then dropped to 6.25 mg since I couldn't shake the horrible sides. The day after the 6.25 mg I got a flu like feeling during noon. I slept in the car for 15 minutes, returned to work, drank coffee, and it disappeared. I stayed away from Aromasin for almost 5 days, but then the bloat returned, although this bloat may have been from a different source...
I should note that I greatly increased my caffeine intake during weeks 4-8. I also added in ephedrine to do an EC stack to cut, but it never really took off. I did maybe 2 or 3 days of 25 mg 3x a day of ephedrine and 200 mg X 3 a day of caffeine. Around week 7 I began to have new strange symptoms. My high stimulant intake was partially masking my fatigue, but I began having blood sugar issues. I would go hypoglycemic after eating. I would have energy for 10 minutes after eating, but then get really tired and hungry again. I ignored it thinking that it was because my low cals. My energy was all over the place, tired then wired, but generally fatigued and hungry.
I couldn't figure out what was going on until I began reading, and I have done a shit load of reading, and saw that I may have adrenal issues (adrenal fatigue isn't recognized by the medical community, only Addison's, adrenal insufficiency and Cushings, however there is a large community out there that acknowledges it). Apparently exogenous testosterone shuts off LH/FSH signals from the pituitary to the leydig cells in the testes, BUT it also impacts your adrenal glands. The ACTH signal is reduced, so while most of us have abused our HPA axis (hypothalumis pituitary adrenal axis) with stimulants, less than perfect sleep, etc, we are setting our selves up to fail with AAS and thyroid meds, EC, etc.
The problem is, your adrenal glands affect your thyroid as well, so as they struggle to produce cortisol, you go hypothyroid, and your cutting cycle turns into a bulking cycle. You're fatigued possibly because your thyroid and your adrenals are out of whack. So while I read numerous threads about lethargy, and libido and fatigue, I often wonder how many of those are strictly E2 related, or have other underlying issues, like adrenal fatigue, increased or decreased cortisol output. While we all think of cortisol as evil, if the sides I have felt from low cortisol are correct, you basically feel dead, no emotions, the worst feeling ever. Of course this could be a combination of things like low e, low cortisol, high e, high cortisol, hypothyroid symptoms, etc. This is why I feel low e2 isn't always the reason for peoples sides. Your adrenal glands have an affect on your libido as well, and thus I realize how complicated endocrinology is.
For the last week or 2 (weeks 8-9), I dropped all stims, started sleeping on a perfect schedule (still work up 4-5 times a night), got diet perfect which is was always close to, and stopped lifting or doing cardio for 5 days. The first two days I slept 11 hours and work up feeling dead. For the next week, my energy improved slowly, however, and the hypoglycemia feeling went away. These are all things that should take the burden off the adrenals. After my last tiny shot of test-e, 75 mg, which I used 6.25 mg of Aromasin with, I bloated up like a balloon. One detail I left out is that I have had this face bloat, which isn't extreme, but that I notice, that will absolutely not go away, not matter how low e2 is. last test was from 3 days ago, 1 day after the last shot. TT (1300), Estradiol: (8.7 REF: 7.6 - 42.6). My e2 is 8.7 but I have face bloat and water retention everywhere.
My free T4 and TSH is within range, but my free t3 is (1.8 REF: 2.0 0 4.4). So I'm clearly hypothyroid. Another detail to this is that my body temperature is all over the place. Using an in ear thermometer I might wake up at 96.5, or 98.5, or 97.5, and it jumps around during the day. All symptoms of adrenal issues. This is what leads me to believe my issues have all be cortisol related, and adrenal fatigue related. I'm clearly carrying around about 10 lb's of bloat, with a low carb diet, cardio, and AI, and the bloat doesn't seem to leave.
I know I will need more blood work to determine this, and I have order a 24 hour cortisol saliva test with dhea-s to get those numbers. Even with a E2 of 8.7, my energy and fatigue actually improved with sleep and no stimulants. So there was more going on than low e2 to cause my symptoms. I believe it was low cortisol, possibly high. However, my symptoms were as follows: excessive urination (every 15 minutes), fatigue, dry mouth, water retention, light sensitivity, acne (never had that before), normal energy at 12 pm and 6 pm, fatigued during other hours, never felt well rested after sleeping, constipated, hypoglycemic after eating, cold after eating.
One thing that may be causing my mysterious bloat is aldosterone. The adrenal gland may be producing excess aldosterone for whatever reason, and aldosterone causing water retention. I will have to get more tests done to confirm this.
In any case, I have stopped the test-e and I'm starting to run HCG before the test ester clears, which is when I will start PCT. I'm considering Dr. Scally's PCT Protocol, although it seems a little hardcore for essentially 9 weeks of TRT. I'm hoping the bloat will go away, since I do not believe it is e2 related. So if you are having sides and you don't think they are e2 related, it may be your adrenal glands and or thyroid.
Has anyone else had this kind of experience with the mysterious bloat? (I still have it) face, chest, stomach. It’s most definetly water retention.
I will update this thread as I get more information.
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Originally Posted by BigTahl
