Used steroids as a teenager, now suffering low test as a 20 y/o. Restart failed.

[Ymcmb]

I did a cycle of test prop when I was 17, 400mg/week for 8 weeks. PCT was clomid and nolva.
I never did bloodwork, but recovered fine from that cycle based on how I felt.
A year later at 18 (turned 19 while on) I did a second cycle which reall put the nail in the coffin. 750mg/week of prop for 10 weeks, clomid and nolva pct. Did not recover well at all, and decided to foolishly wait it out. After a few months I got my sex drive back, started to feel OK. Felt like this for a little while, but around the time I turned 20, I started to get serious effects of low testosterone. Depression, very low energy and motivation. Anxiety, felt the world was against me etc.

I finally wised up and got tested. The results came back as follows

2nd of jan this year:
TT: 400ng/dL
SHBG: 33
Free T: 286 pmol/L

A second blood test produced almost the same results. I lost the LH and FSH results, but they were predictably low, in line with my level of testosterone.

Doctors refused to help, so I did a 2 month regimen of clomid to try restart myself.
week 1: 100mg/day
week 2-8: 50mg/day
week 8-9: 25mg/day
week 9-10: 25mg every second day

At about week 5 my blood test showed the following results:

TT: 1008ng/dL
SHBG: 50
Free T: 652 pmol/L

Did not have LH or FSH tested this time.

1 month after stopping clomid I go for another test. The results came back almost exactly the same as my first test, no lasting change.

I am at a loss. I spent most of today reading about how steroids in teens can permanently destroy the HPTA and I seriously feel sick about what i've done to myself. I have no one to turn to except you guys, my family keeps asking what is wrong with me and i cant even tell them.

[dreadnok89]

I'm pretty sure your family knows you were using. All that gear its pretty obvious. Just talk them and get to a qualified doctor

[hawk14dl]

You need a better restart program.

Look up scallys power pct. I just recommended it to s friend in the same scenario (he didn't pct).

Good luck guy.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

I completly agree your #'s at your age you are not dying and are not terminial or in the tank ! Yeah would be great if they were higher but some of your symptoms are actually normal for a teen / young adult that everything is not all aces in life right now so slow down don't panaic and if you could afford that much gear call Lowtestosterone.com and the may or may not try to help you due to your young age ? But if you could get accepted into one of their progrqms you should feel fortunate and don't blow the chance to grade a PROSESSIONAL ASSASTANCE would IMHO be fixed in a year or less and back just like nature wanted you I think possibly they would want you to havr an MIR and a couple of othrt trst before they would accept you ? BUt I can't speak for them ! tHEY ARE THE PROS

Do to your young age they may not accept you but I would go find Low testosterone and pm him nd he will point you in the corrwct direction and they are "THE PROS" so that would be my vey 1st courcw of action ! JUST D0 WHAAT THEY TELL YOU !

[bullshark99]

I think dread makes a very good point, all that gear I'm sure your ppl suspected something even if you don't think so. Regardless of that, you are a young man with your whole life ahead of you, it's time to man up and come clean to your family. Maybe they can help you get better care than relying on some forum. Some of the advice here is abs outstanding but keep I'm mind, for the most part, you are not dealing with doctors.

[Times Roman]

I did a cycle of test prop when I was 17, 400mg/week for 8 weeks. PCT was clomid and nolva.
I never did bloodwork, but recovered fine from that cycle based on how I felt.
A year later at 18 (turned 19 while on) I did a second cycle which reall put the nail in the coffin. 750mg/week of prop for 10 weeks, clomid and nolva pct. Did not recover well at all, and decided to foolishly wait it out. After a few months I got my sex drive back, started to feel OK. Felt like this for a little while, but around the time I turned 20, I started to get serious effects of low testosterone. Depression, very low energy and motivation. Anxiety, felt the world was against me etc.

I finally wised up and got tested. The results came back as follows

2nd of jan this year:
TT: 400ng/dL
SHBG: 33
Free T: 286 pmol/L

A second blood test produced almost the same results. I lost the LH and FSH results, but they were predictably low, in line with my level of testosterone.

Doctors refused to help, so I did a 2 month regimen of clomid to try restart myself.
week 1: 100mg/day
week 2-8: 50mg/day
week 8-9: 25mg/day
week 9-10: 25mg every second day

At about week 5 my blood test showed the following results:

TT: 1008ng/dL
SHBG: 50
Free T: 652 pmol/L

Did not have LH or FSH tested this time.

1 month after stopping clomid I go for another test. The results came back almost exactly the same as my first test, no lasting change.

I am at a loss. I spent most of today reading about how steroids in teens can permanently destroy the HPTA and I seriously feel sick about what i've done to myself. I have no one to turn to except you guys, my family keeps asking what is wrong with me and i cant even tell them.

and some wonder why members such as myself are firm when we tell youngsters that they should not be taking steroids at their age. This won't happen every time, but it does happen often enough that YOUNGSTERS SHOULD NOT BE TAKING STEROIDS. PERIOD!

[MRNJ1992]

Find a Doc and get some help and advice.

[Ymcmb]

Find a Doc and get some help and advice.

All you guys seem to be lucky on here to get docs that didnt get their degree from a cereal box or are actually willing to listen and help.
Ive had 4 blood tests each with a different doc and all of them say 'yea its a little low but youre fine nothing we can do' i'd like them to try live in my damn head for a day and tell me its fine. Fuk doctors the only way im gonna fix this is to do it myself.

I have ordered all the stuff for a scally power pct, will it still work after all this time or is it mainly for straight after a cycle? Am i better off just jumpin on clomid long term say 4+ months and see if that helps?

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

All you guys seem to be lucky on here to get docs that didnt get their degree from a cereal box or are actually willing to listen and help.
Ive had 4 blood tests each with a different doc and all of them say 'yea its a little low but youre fine nothing we can do' i'd like them to try live in my damn head for a day and tell me its fine. Fuk doctors the only way im gonna fix this is to do it myself. YOU NEED A LOT MORE THAN BW AT 20 YOU NEED MANY MORE TEST RAN ! TRT IS A LAST RESORT NOT THE 1ST THING TO TRY OR HAVE YOU GAINED THAT MUCH KNOWLEDGE AT THE AGE OF 20 ? You could have many oter underlying issues besides low T ? They could be much more serious also ! YOU NEED TO READ A LOT MORE AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND ALL YOUR ISSUES BEFORE YOU SELF MEDICATE ! YOU ONLY JOINED THIS MONTH ? I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE YOU ARE WELL VERSED ON ALL THE VERY DANDEROUS PROBLEMS YOU COULD HAVE AND LOW - T WOULD NOT BE ON THE TOP OF THE LIST ? TUMORS, THYROID ISSUES, AND OTHER ISSUES YOU MAY HAVE CAUSED BY YOUR RECKLESS ABUSE ?

I have ordered all the stuff for a scally power pct, will it still work after all this time or is it mainly for straight after a cycle? Am i better off just jumpin on clomid long term say 4+ months and see if that helps?

90% 0f it is having enough wisdom to know when you find a good Dr ! Luck has nothing to do with it read and learn and you will know what to look for in a " good Dr ! "

Not saying you are not smart just a fact it is rather dificult to gain very much wisdom by the ripe ole age of 20 and read all the stickies and understand and you will not have as many questions

[Ymcmb]

Yeah but i dont have time to try every doctor in town. And theres only 2 endos where i live and they both specialize with diabetes or something and its a wait to see them.

What solution can a doctor give me that a bunch of guys who use gear all the time cant?

What i need to know is should i use scallys power pct, would a huge shock to the system approach still work this long after cycle? Or am i better off jumping back on the serm long term. I will feel so much better knowing my depression is from the clomid and i at least have 1000ng/dl test and not walk around feeling like an old man with my shrivelled nuts. Then hopefully if i come off after a long time my levels will be rebooted.

I just need an OK from someone who knows their shit that either of these methods will be ok to try.

[hawk14dl]

Let me save you some time here. . Buzzard rambles a lot. I haven't seen much good come from his posts.

I would suggest trying the power pct. I'm going to send a link back to kelkel, he's our resident specialist. He will be able to give you either confirmation, or a better idea.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

Kel is a very smart guy ! and will give you opitions but not what to do IMO ? You still have the issues I mentioned wether you like my cool a$$ rambeling or not you abused juice and you damaged your Endo system and a uroligist is more likely to give you some good advice than and endo or you could try reading and try to learn a little on your own unless you want to be spoon feed and everything laid out for you ? You got youself to where you are so try to learn what is going on ?

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

OH
hawk14dl

MY LATEST FAN ! KNEEL BEFORE MY 54 YEEAR OLD SUPERIOUR SENIOR HUNAN BEING OF A MAN [/FONT]

[lovbyts]

Yeah but i dont have time to try every doctor in town. And theres only 2 endos where i live and they both specialize with diabetes or something and its a wait to see them.

What solution can a doctor give me that a bunch of guys who use gear all the time cant?

What i need to know is should i use scallys power pct, would a huge shock to the system approach still work this long after cycle? Or am i better off jumping back on the serm long term. I will feel so much better knowing my depression is from the clomid and i at least have 1000ng/dl test and not walk around feeling like an old man with my shrivelled nuts. Then hopefully if i come off after a long time my levels will be rebooted.

I just need an OK from someone who knows their shit that either of these methods will be ok to try.

But you have the next 60 years to be on TRT? As said it's for life once you start and also as said your numbers are not all that bad. Higher does not always mean better. I would keep doing more research, maybe run another PCT and keep looking for a doctor. Try and fertility doctor if not an endo but either way do not consider TRT until you have no choice and that is not for another year or two down the road of trying everything else.

[Roger11]

hawk14dl You love me don't you with your well of great knowledge and info at the ripe old age of 28 Kel is a rightous guy and has helped me tremendously and actually done more for me than my Dr cyt he deid not tell me to self medicate ! He will offer you some great info !

But you still have the issues I mentiond to worry about and can/t just forget about them ! You could actually read the stikies and gain some knowledge fter all you caused the issues you are having so don't you want to know how to fix the issues ! You will know what he Dr.'s are talking about if you educate yourelf as opposed to being spoonfed ? Soooooooo read the stickies and many of your questions will be answered for you ~ !

OH
hawk14dl MY LATEST FAN ! KNEEL BEFORE MY 54 YEEAR OLD SUPERIOUR SENIOR HUNAN BEING

Mate, no offence. But shut the hell up already!

I Cant understand anything that comes outta your frickin mouth, you have no advice to offer and you ramble and go on about absolute nonsense. Perhaps do a course in proper English and how to paragraph sentences properly before you start typing on the keyboard.

[Roger11]

Kel is a very smart guy ! and will give you opitions but not what to do IMO ? You still have the issues I mentioned wether you like my cool a$$ rambeling or not you abused juice and you damaged your Endo system and a uroligist is more likely to give you some good advice than and endo or you could try reading and try to learn a little on your own unless you want to be spoon feed and everything laid out for you ? You got youself to where you are so try to learn what is going on ?

What in the flying FK does this even mean? In all my time reading KelKel posts, he always states very precisely the manner in which an action should be taken.

[hawk14dl]

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Lol.

If you want to consider me a part of your "fan club", go ahead. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Age means nothing. Ignorance comes at all stages in life.

[kelkel]

But you have the next 60 years to be on TRT? As said it's for life once you start and also as said your numbers are not all that bad. Higher does not always mean better. I would keep doing more research, maybe run another PCT and keep looking for a doctor. Try and fertility doctor if not an endo but either way do not consider TRT until you have no choice and that is not for another year or two down the road of trying everything else.

Solid advice above and from many of the other guys as well.

Note: Always post ranges with BW. We'd really like to know how low your LH & FSH panels came in at.

Op, sorry to hear of your plight. By chance do you have any BW from before you started cycling? That would be key in determining how much production was actually lost due to cycling. It's also always best to obtain full BW, not just specific panels as even though you're young many things can impact T levels and you could have several going on a once.

Yes, you can run a Scally Power PCT as mentioned and see if the results will remain. It can't hurt. But the best advice I could give you would be to seek out one of the top doc's in the country (Crisler, Shippen, Dach, etc.) and travel to them. Usually only one face to face appointment is needed and the rest can be virtual. Hell, even Scally will consult with you for a fee. You're young and have a long life ahead of you. Whatever time, effort and hardship it may be to see one of these guys it is entirely worth it. It's your health. Why keep guessing!

It's obvious your Hypothalamus and Pituitary are responsive to Serms based on your results. Serms, in short, are basically estrogen antagonists at the hypothalamus level. Clomid specifically blocks the estrogen receptor in the Hypo (tricks it) into producing more GnRH thus more LH & FSH. This hits your testicals and begins the process of testosterone production. They appear to be functional as well.

All that said, no one can answer the question as to whether it will last or if it's an effort in futility. Which is why more thorough BW is suggested to see if there are other variables effecting production or if ultimately your HPTA is damaged. But first and foremost seeing a great doc who understands hormones and this entire process. They are few and far between whether their title is Uro or Endo.

I wish there was a quick and to the point answer for you but unfortunately there isn't. You need to be patient and work through this.

kel

[Ryanmcd]

Buzz went full retard a long time ago. Check out this PM he sent me lol

Notified by pm and on open forum
Your actions are not the purpose of this forum and your actions are contrary to the posting guidelines of this forum and do reach the level of membership terminative actions. think about this before you harass or post unwarranted negative open forum post towards & on but not limimated me again from the point of this notification forward 03 / 15 / 2014 (MARCH FIFTEENTH TWO THOUSAND FOURTEEN) ! This will be proven by efforts on my part to take every action possible as a member to; collect, compile, and present enough of your negative, harassing and non-productive post as possible to the, POWERS THAT BE AND HAVE THE AUTHORITY to terminate by exact and factual postings, already posted by you, that prove you are of no positive benefit to this forum and at that point would make you a member who is proven to be harmful and of no positive benefit to anyone on the forum. In so proving, therefore you being a member would serve no positive purpose . Upon completing and presenting the above mentioned postings would, at that time attempt to have you banned as a member .

[hawk14dl]

HE sent YOU that? Lol

[steroidsareamagicpil]

It's a stupid notion that "using steroids young will **** up your systemzz!!".

Guess what? You were probably hovering around 400ng/dl before ever touching steroids. Ever give that a thought? I've spent a lot of time researching testosterone and its impact on the human body. Through that process I've encountered hundreds of teens/early twenties guys who report low t-levels (under 500ng/dl) without ever touching steroids.

Some people simply produce less testosterone than others, and vice versa.
I've read a study that enrolled 271 men for 6 months of testosterone therapy. Every single man (100%) was back to baseline testosterone levels 6 months after last pin. Most were back to normal in 3-4 months.
(can't post link because I have less than 25 posts)

I'd say out of 10 young males your age, you'll find that one or two will have levels similar to yours.



Whether you want to get on some form of trt is up to you, I'm just giving a different perspective here.

[kelkel]

It's a stupid notion that "using steroids young will **** up your systemzz!!".

You need to educate yourself more. Your HPTA is not fully developed until around 24-25 and you simply increase the risk of issues.

Guess what? You were probably hovering around 400ng/dl before ever touching steroids. Ever give that a thought? I've spent a lot of time researching testosterone and its impact on the human body. Through that process I've encountered hundreds of teens/early twenties guys who report low t-levels (under 500ng/dl) without ever touching steroids.

It's why I asked for BW prior to any cycles....but that does not preclude other medical issues potentially exacerbating his condition.

Some people simply produce less testosterone than others, and vice versa.
I've read a study that enrolled 271 men for 6 months of testosterone therapy. Every single man (100%) was back to baseline testosterone levels 6 months after last pin. Most were back to normal in 3-4 months.
(can't post link because I have less than 25 posts)

The op's concerned with HIS test levels. Just like you would be if they were your levels. A little empathy would be nice.

I'd say out of 10 young males your age, you'll find that one or two will have levels similar to yours.

Now you're guessing.



Whether you want to get on some form of trt is up to you, I'm just giving a different perspective here.

Definitely a different perspective. You may be right and you may be wrong concerning his natural production. But investigating it fully is what anyone in his shoes would surely do, based on his symptoms and not just numbers.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

what in the flying fk does this even mean? In all my time reading kelkel posts, he always states very precisely the manner in which an action should be taken.

Not worthy of posting

[kelkel]

Enough guys. The thread is getting derailed.

[lovbyts]

It's a stupid notion that "using steroids young will **** up your systemzz!!".

Guess what? You were probably hovering around 400ng/dl before ever touching steroids. Ever give that a thought? I've spent a lot of time researching testosterone and its impact on the human body. Through that process I've encountered hundreds of teens/early twenties guys who report low t-levels (under 500ng/dl) without ever touching steroids.

Some people simply produce less testosterone than others, and vice versa.
I've read a study that enrolled 271 men for 6 months of testosterone therapy. Every single man (100%) was back to baseline testosterone levels 6 months after last pin. Most were back to normal in 3-4 months.
(can't post link because I have less than 25 posts)

I'd say out of 10 young males your age, you'll find that one or two will have levels similar to yours.



Whether you want to get on some form of trt is up to you, I'm just giving a different perspective here.

Seriously? You make a statement like that as if it's fact but then you turn around and are asking questions like these?
http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...ml#post6859703

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...ml#post6753902

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...ml#post6859725

Kelkel spelled it out to a T. This is the best direction the OP should take trying to find out if there is a problem and fix it rather than using a band-aid fix and making things worse.